Miami school shooting
Discussion
Hoofy said:
As a fan of Battlefield, I honestly can say I would have waded in at the first sign of trouble and took the gunman down.
As a fan of Battlefield, I have learnt that camping at a choke point such as an exit reaps the best rewards.
As a fan of Battlefield, I've never seen real gun battles and would probably hide and crap my pants.
Pick one.
I expect NRA Rambo wannabes would think option (1).
Running and gunning is the quickest way back to respawn in BF As a fan of Battlefield, I have learnt that camping at a choke point such as an exit reaps the best rewards.
As a fan of Battlefield, I've never seen real gun battles and would probably hide and crap my pants.
Pick one.
I expect NRA Rambo wannabes would think option (1).
Hoofy said:
As a fan of Battlefield, I honestly can say I would have waded in at the first sign of trouble and took the gunman down.
As a fan of Battlefield, I have learnt that camping at a choke point such as an exit reaps the best rewards.
As a fan of Battlefield, I've never seen real gun battles and would probably hide and crap my pants.
Pick one.
I expect NRA Rambo wannabes would think option (1).
It's a trick question, as a fan of Battlefield you'd know best laid plans are scuppered by some As a fan of Battlefield, I have learnt that camping at a choke point such as an exit reaps the best rewards.
As a fan of Battlefield, I've never seen real gun battles and would probably hide and crap my pants.
Pick one.
I expect NRA Rambo wannabes would think option (1).
who sneaks up on you and stabs you from behindred_slr said:
Very bad show that they are blaming this guy IMHO.
Isn't that his job though? He is an armed sheriff - the whole point of him is to stop bad people. Yes, the situation was dangerous and he wouldn't have known what the gun man was doing but using that argument, would they not stop a bank robbery either?Camelot1971 said:
red_slr said:
Very bad show that they are blaming this guy IMHO.
Isn't that his job though? He is an armed sheriff - the whole point of him is to stop bad people. Yes, the situation was dangerous and he wouldn't have known what the gun man was doing but using that argument, would they not stop a bank robbery either?Camelot1971 said:
Isn't that his job though? He is an armed sheriff - the whole point of him is to stop bad people. Yes, the situation was dangerous and he wouldn't have known what the gun man was doing but using that argument, would they not stop a bank robbery either?
I have absolutely no idea for the job requirements for s deputy. What checks, what training etc. Does it vary from place to place, is there a difference between deputy and police officer or are they one and the same etc.What the department have prepared him for this situation?
Gameface said:
That guy is going to become a scapegoat, poor sod. His life will be a made a misery.
Indeed.He didnt know who the shooter was, where they were in the school, how many shooters there were etc - yet he was expected to just wade in to crowded corridors and start a firefight?
Rather than stopping the shooter - adding more guns to the mix could have made things worse.
What if he had gone into the school and tried to take out the shooter - but caught innocents in his crossfire instead.
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 23 February 11:22
Camelot1971 said:
red_slr said:
Very bad show that they are blaming this guy IMHO.
Isn't that his job though? He is an armed sheriff - the whole point of him is to stop bad people. Yes, the situation was dangerous and he wouldn't have known what the gun man was doing but using that argument, would they not stop a bank robbery either?Too Drunk to Funk said:
red_slr said:
Very bad show that they are blaming this guy IMHO.
Why?All we keep hearing is all you need is a good guy with a gun.
That plan clearly failed.
If a lone armed cop won't take on a shooter, then how the hell to they expect a teacher to walk into a gun fight?
This isn't a stand off or a threat. There is a real live shooter murdering people. It's the sort of situation you would be sending a SWAT team into, not a Geography teacher!!!
98elise said:
Too Drunk to Funk said:
red_slr said:
Very bad show that they are blaming this guy IMHO.
Why?All we keep hearing is all you need is a good guy with a gun.
That plan clearly failed.
If a lone armed cop won't take on a shooter, then how the hell to they expect a teacher to walk into a gun fight?
This isn't a stand off or a threat. There is a real live shooter murdering people. It's the sort of situation you would be sending a SWAT team into, not a Geography teacher!!!
98elise said:
The only good thing to come out of this is it shows how idiotic the plan is to arm teachers as a response.
If a lone armed cop won't take on a shooter, then how the hell to they expect a teacher to walk into a gun fight?
This isn't a stand off or a threat. There is a real live shooter murdering people. It's the sort of situation you would be sending a SWAT team into, not a Geography teacher!!!
They are now putting the blame on the guard, an easy target, yet in the confusion he hesitated.If a lone armed cop won't take on a shooter, then how the hell to they expect a teacher to walk into a gun fight?
This isn't a stand off or a threat. There is a real live shooter murdering people. It's the sort of situation you would be sending a SWAT team into, not a Geography teacher!!!
Hopefully Trump's newly armed teachers will take better care of their weapons than this one did - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teacher-left-gun...
I wonder if they will indemnify the teachers just in case they accidentally shoot someone innocent in the firefight. It's not like the US is stacked full of litigious lawyers is it.
As for trying to disarm someone who has a semi-automatic weapon by using a hand gun... you may as well shoot yourself in the head first.
As for trying to disarm someone who has a semi-automatic weapon by using a hand gun... you may as well shoot yourself in the head first.
PRTVR said:
Did he even know the number of gun men in the building ? What if there had been another gunman covering the door, there are to many variables to just go running in guns blazing, I don't think our armed police would just run in.
Looking at the footage of the UK police response to the London Bridge/Borough Market attack, I think they do now pretty much run in:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/07/lo...
I remember reading at the time - but haven't gone looking for a link - that police tactics in the UK are changing in response to terror attacks. That is, they are now more likely to GO IN than stand off waiting on intel as previously.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that this is in any way something teachers (teacher ffs!) should be expected to do. Nor that this level of response - run *at* the attackers immediately - is something that anyone other than a professional with intensive training, backup and intel could be expected to do either.
[edited to read "now more likely" rather than "no..." in para 2 as was originally intended]
Edited by six wheels on Friday 23 February 13:55
Can we just remind the WHOLE WORLD about what happened in Las Vegas just a few weeks ago? A whole SWAT team waited over hour before breaking down the door of the hotel room with the bad guy in it, even though he'd killed himself 50 minutes before. Lets not lose sight of this FACT when we go around with pitchforks to string up some deputy faced with almost certain death given the opponent and his weapons. Yes, it would hav ebeen nice if he had tried..... but....
wiki said:
Paddock had used a hammer to break two of the windows in both of his suites[4] and eventually began shooting through them at 10:05 p.m.[41] He ultimately fired more than 1,100 rifle rounds[42] approximately 490 yards (450 m) into the festival audience.[43][44][45][c] He initially started out with a few single gunshots before firing in prolonged bursts.[4] Many people in the crowd initially mistook the gunfire for fireworks.[46] During the shooting, a security fence hindered concertgoers from fleeing the 15-acre concrete lot.[47] The gunfire continued, with some momentary pauses, over the span of ten minutes and ended by 10:15 p.m.
Between 10:26 and 10:30 p.m., an additional eight officers arrived at the 32nd floor, with some of them manually breaching through the door Paddock had screwed shut with the bracket. The gunfire had ceased, and the police moved systematically down the hallway, searching and clearing each room, using a master key that was provided by Campos. At 10:55 p.m., the officers finished evacuating guests. At 11:20 p.m., police breached Room 32135 with explosives.[4][47][49][52] Paddock was found dead on the floor from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head
Between 10:26 and 10:30 p.m., an additional eight officers arrived at the 32nd floor, with some of them manually breaching through the door Paddock had screwed shut with the bracket. The gunfire had ceased, and the police moved systematically down the hallway, searching and clearing each room, using a master key that was provided by Campos. At 10:55 p.m., the officers finished evacuating guests. At 11:20 p.m., police breached Room 32135 with explosives.[4][47][49][52] Paddock was found dead on the floor from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head
The idea one bloke who is probably looking after a school until he retires (who I note gets paid more than a UK police Inspector!) is clearly not a suitable contingency to someone committing a school shooting who probably is happy to die.
This guy will be getting criticised by lots of people who'd have done the same thing.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/07/lo...
I remember reading at the time - but haven't gone looking for a link - that police tactics in the UK are changing in response to terror attacks. That is, they are no more likely to GO IN than stand off waiting on intel as previously.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that this is in any way something teachers (teacher ffs!) should be expected to do. Nor that this level of response - run *at* the attackers immediately - is something that anyone other than a professional with intensive training, backup and intel could be expected to do either.The UK police are exceptionally unlikely to face any serious firearms like an AR-15.
They are also going to be working in teams and will also have more firepower than a pistol immediately available, as well as shields and helmets.
This guy will be getting criticised by lots of people who'd have done the same thing.
six wheels said:
PRTVR said:
Did he even know the number of gun men in the building ? What if there had been another gunman covering the door, there are to many variables to just go running in guns blazing, I don't think our armed police would just run in.
Looking at the footage of the UK police response to the London Bridge/Borough Market attack, I think they do now pretty much run in:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/07/lo...
I remember reading at the time - but haven't gone looking for a link - that police tactics in the UK are changing in response to terror attacks. That is, they are no more likely to GO IN than stand off waiting on intel as previously.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that this is in any way something teachers (teacher ffs!) should be expected to do. Nor that this level of response - run *at* the attackers immediately - is something that anyone other than a professional with intensive training, backup and intel could be expected to do either.
They are also going to be working in teams and will also have more firepower than a pistol immediately available, as well as shields and helmets.
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