Miami school shooting

[durbster]

jmorgan said:

andy_s said:

jmorgan said:

The NRA have the country buttoned up.

But losing a few major sponsors now I read, although I don't think it will gain much traction.

This will be a blip for them. Looking at where they have sent their donations, they are not dim. They play the long game and have weathered other mass shootings and guided the law makers to avoid them. This will happen again, the pro lobby and taker of money will blame anything but themselves.

Not my country but if I were, ratcheting back guns would be a generation or two thing, can't see this as an overnight fix.

You're probably right but there is something different here in that it's the students taking a stand and they seem smart and determined. It's probably the first shooting where the victims have become more famous than the perpetrator, which is a significant shift.

And they've put the NRA mouthpieces in the difficult position of being forced to attack children who have survived a shooting, rather than organised groups or TV pundits. You would think that crosses a moral line.

[loughran]

Arming teachers may not be the solution.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/utah-teacher-shoots-her...

[frankenstein12]

rscott said:

frankenstein12 said:

Not a big fan of Clinton news network but since its THE liberal anti Trump news outlet...

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkla...


http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-s...

Unfortunately I cannot find anything in a Google search about the tweets I saw yesterday but I will try find them to see if I can post the source so people can read, research and make their decisions on validity etc.

So nothing to back up your claims about deals between the school board and the sheriff's department?

As for the Daily Caller link... Even if they'd responded to the reports about him being a risk, what could they legally have done? They've got no powers to remove his legally purchased weapons.

I really don't know if they could have done something although I have to assume that there must be mechanisms in place to at least stop him buying any more guns past a certain point of interactions with police but then this is the US so...

Edit. Found the other bit... was on a phone when I originally posted it so hadn't researched it but intend to do so over this weekend unless someone finds out how accurate or authentic it really is.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/21/it...

Edited by frankenstein12 on Saturday 24th February 11:24

[rscott]

frankenstein12 said:

rscott said:

frankenstein12 said:

Not a big fan of Clinton news network but since its THE liberal anti Trump news outlet...

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkla...


http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-s...

Unfortunately I cannot find anything in a Google search about the tweets I saw yesterday but I will try find them to see if I can post the source so people can read, research and make their decisions on validity etc.

So nothing to back up your claims about deals between the school board and the sheriff's department?

As for the Daily Caller link... Even if they'd responded to the reports about him being a risk, what could they legally have done? They've got no powers to remove his legally purchased weapons.

I really don't know if they could have done something although I have to assume that there must be mechanisms in place to at least stop him buying any more guns past a certain point of interactions with police but then this is the US so...

Edit. Found the other bit... was on a phone when I originally posted it so hadn't researched it but intend to do so over this weekend unless someone finds out how accurate or authentic it really is.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/21/it...

Edited by frankenstein12 on Saturday 24th February 11:24

Where's the evidence that there was an agreement not to charge pupils?

Conservative treehouse said:

A host of non-violent misdemeanors no longer require an arrest, though officers can sometimes override that if they feel it is necessary (“I wanted to make sure deputies always had discretion,” says Scott Israel, Broward County’s sheriff)

[Dr Jekyll]

durbster said:

You're probably right but there is something different here in that it's the students taking a stand and they seem smart and determined. It's probably the first shooting where the victims have become more famous than the perpetrator, which is a significant shift.

And they've put the NRA mouthpieces in the difficult position of being forced to attack children who have survived a shooting, rather than organised groups or TV pundits. You would think that crosses a moral line.

Only if you conflate disagreeing with someone with attacking them.

[durbster]

Dr Jekyll said:

durbster said:

You're probably right but there is something different here in that it's the students taking a stand and they seem smart and determined. It's probably the first shooting where the victims have become more famous than the perpetrator, which is a significant shift.

And they've put the NRA mouthpieces in the difficult position of being forced to attack children who have survived a shooting, rather than organised groups or TV pundits. You would think that crosses a moral line.

Only if you conflate disagreeing with someone with attacking them.

No, they are attacking the children, they're attacking law enforcement and they're attacking the security guard.

They're trying to discredit them and sow doubt on their stories.

[JuniorD]

StephenGalley said:

Halmyre said:

frankenstein12 said:

Halmyre said:

frankenstein12 said:

Byker28i said:

frankenstein12 said:

Not perfect but a decent compromise to the idea of having either none or all which seems to be about the present mindset.

Quoted as seriously I cannot believe you wrote that.

Go read this article
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...land-should-...

Link does not work.

You can disbelieve all you want. The reality FACT of the matter is you will not stop nutters gaining access to these types of weapons whether you restrict access or ban them. There are just too many of them in the US. There are something like 2 guns for every person in the US.

As such as much as it sucks the only realistic to try reduce death tolls in school shootings barring turning schools into fortressess/virtual prisons for students is to arm teachers.

Edited by frankenstein12 on Friday 23 February 17:17

Sit down and have a think about how long it would take for the teachers to make their way to the gun cabinet, unlock it (who sets off the gun alert?) and tool up. In the meanwhile the assailant is running around shooting up the place. Oh, and he set the fire alarm off so presumably everyone was outside or on their way outside.

Ok so your response to reduce the threat to schools/soft targets is? And lets be realistic here since there is no way at all they can ban guns in the US due to the second amendment.

Your 'solution' panders to the standard wk-fantasy of steely-eyed sharpshooters taking down the bad guy with precise and accurate shooting. Won't happen.

Can happen and does happen, a member of the public shot that shooter not long ago. There are countless cases of this happening in the U.S.A.

Your "solution" is to to let the bad guy run wild without being shot back at. Which makes more sense?

If teachers being armed is such a good idea, how come they don’t seem to bring their own weapons to work already?

[FourWheelDrift]

JuniorD said:

If teachers being armed is such a good idea, how come they don’t seem to bring their own weapons to work already?

loughran said:

Arming teachers may not be the solution.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/utah-teacher-shoots-her...

[mikal83]

JuniorD said:

If teachers being armed is such a good idea, how come they don’t seem to bring their own weapons to work already?

How do you know they don't?

[Moonhawk]

StephenGalley said:

Arming and training teachers and/or security guards is being considered and it is a good idea, at least there will be people who can shoot back so the shooter can't do whatever they want. They have armed guards at banks etc., how much more important are our children?

There are hundreds of millions of guns in the U.S.A., the bad guys will always have them, that is why the good people have to have them also so they can protect themselves and their family against any bad guys on equal terms.

Given the accuracy with which even trained police have displayed when discharging their weapons (18% based on a news article posted earlier) - what are the chances that teachers who will likely have a much lower level of training and practice will be able to stop a shooter without significant risk of injury to innocents caught in the crossfire?

In a crowded school with dozens or hundreds of panicked children and adults running around - what are the chances of a teacher being able to positively identify the gunman and get a clean shot off. In the article posted a few pages back - the police officer discharged 3 shots. All three missed the perp - but two hit innocent bystanders..

What happens if as an armed teacher, you round a corner - and find another teacher in front of you also holding a gun (quite a likely scenario if you arm all teachers). Do you immediately open fire, or pause and hope to hell the teacher is not in fact the shooter.

Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 24th February 15:10

[frankenstein12]

So it gets worse and there is all sorts coming out now.

Apparently there were 4 browsed officers outside the school including the one who was seen on camera hiding behind a concrete pillar while the shooting was going on inside the school.

It is also coming to light that there was an agreement between the school board and police to not arrest or charge students for crimes or bad behaviour as it meant the school got good grades and extra funding.

The browsed police (local pd) were actively subverting the law and when students from the school were caught with stolen property instead of raising a criminal case against the students they would log the stolen goods as found items/lost property which meant they would go into a storage unit and gather dust and the student caught with stolen goods would be released without charge etc.

[Countdown]

frankenstein12 said:

So it gets worse and there is all sorts coming out now.

Apparently there were 4 browsed officers outside the school including the one who was seen on camera hiding behind a concrete pillar while the shooting was going on inside the school.

That suggests that arming schoolteachers is an even more stupid idea than originally thought.

frankenstein12 said:

It is also coming to light that there was an agreement between the school board and police to not arrest or charge students for crimes or bad behaviour as it meant the school got good grades and extra funding.

The browsed police (local pd) were actively subverting the law and when students from the school were caught with stolen property instead of raising a criminal case against the students they would log the stolen goods as found items/lost property which meant they would go into a storage unit and gather dust and the student caught with stolen goods would be released without charge etc.

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

[mikal83]

what the heck is a browsed copper?

[Digger]

Auto-correct I believe.... Broward.

[jmorgan]

mikal83 said:

what the heck is a browsed copper?

Think it is a mis spell for the Broward district.

However, blame everything and anyone except the gun toting individual.

[andymc]

Utter scum in all aspects of society, can we agree on that? How do we move forward and stop it happening again? Be it at the BBC? Westminster? Football Clubs and even Uncle Mo's cab company, we have a society that is so scared of political correctness that we have allowed these s to hide in plain sight
A society that cannot protect its children is somehing we should be ashamed of

[Byker28i]

rscott said:

frankenstein12 said:

Not a big fan of Clinton news network but since its THE liberal anti Trump news outlet...

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkla...


http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-s...

Unfortunately I cannot find anything in a Google search about the tweets I saw yesterday but I will try find them to see if I can post the source so people can read, research and make their decisions on validity etc.

So nothing to back up your claims about deals between the school board and the sheriff's department?

As for the Daily Caller link... Even if they'd responded to the reports about him being a risk, what could they legally have done? They've got no powers to remove his legally purchased weapons.

So something about 4 more fully trained policemen standing off, yet the one guard on site was supposed to go storming in?
I think this says something about the training they've had, doesn't it?

Anything about you claim of the deals between the schoolboard and sheriff, or are you just quoting Alex Jones?

[Byker28i]

Wayne Lapierre, head of the NRA, says it's a god given right to have guns.

LET'S BE CLEAR, WE ARE NEVER TALKING ABOUT AN ARMED RESISTANCE AGAINST THE SOCIALIST CORRUPTION OF OUR GOVERNMENT. WE ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT A RESISTANCE ARMED WITH THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS IN OUR COUNTRY. [APPLAUSE] [CHEERS] THE GENIUS OF THOSE DOCUMENTS, THE BRILLIANCE OF AMERICA, OF OUR COUNTRY ITSELF, IS ALL OF OUR FREEDOMS ARE FOR EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN. AND THERE IS NO GREATER PERSONAL , INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM THAN THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, THE RIGHT TO PROTECT YOURSELF, AND THE RIGHT TO SURVIVE. [APPLAUSE] IT IS NOT BESTOWED BY MAN, BUT GRANTED BY GOD TO ALL AMERICANS AS OUR AMERICAN BIRTHRIGHT.

Full speech
https://www.c-span.org/video/?441475-3/conservativ...

[4x4Tyke]

There are videos of experiments open carry advocates are armed with paintball guns, they attend a lecture and get them selves and sometimes others killed in simulated terrorist attacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZryfuNgdSHY

[Bacon Is Proof]

frankenstein12 said:

Yes I am "The Idiot" for suggesting a "safe" practical midway solution to the issue as part of the solution.

.

Arming school teachers is safe?
You're coming across as a moron, but writing "FACT" paints you as a troll.
Would you care to reply and remove any doubt?