Miami school shooting

[4x4Tyke]

It is reported that a lot of businesses are withdrawing funding from the NRA. I have to wonder what the business justification is for Airlines, Car hire, Banks etc to fund them.

[JuniorD]

mikal83 said:

JuniorD said:

If teachers being armed is such a good idea, how come they don’t seem to bring their own weapons to work already?

How do you know they don't?

I don’t know that they don’t. I said “don’t seem”. Can you show me that they do?

[Vipers]

On the news last night trump said "If we arm teachers and their guns are concealed the crazy man who walked in wouldn't even know who had it, and that's good, the teacher would have shot the hell out of him before he knew what happened"

Is that his solution?

Think the only crazy man here is him, what planet is he on?

[rscott]

JuniorD said:

mikal83 said:

JuniorD said:

If teachers being armed is such a good idea, how come they don’t seem to bring their own weapons to work already?

How do you know they don't?

I don’t know that they don’t. I said “don’t seem”. Can you show me that they do?

This one did... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp...

[FourWheelDrift]

Byker28i said:

Wayne Lapierre, head of the NRA, says it's a god given right to have guns.

LET'S BE CLEAR, WE ARE NEVER TALKING ABOUT AN ARMED RESISTANCE AGAINST THE SOCIALIST CORRUPTION OF OUR GOVERNMENT. WE ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT A RESISTANCE ARMED WITH THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS IN OUR COUNTRY. [APPLAUSE] [CHEERS] THE GENIUS OF THOSE DOCUMENTS, THE BRILLIANCE OF AMERICA, OF OUR COUNTRY ITSELF, IS ALL OF OUR FREEDOMS ARE FOR EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN. AND THERE IS NO GREATER PERSONAL , INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM THAN THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, THE RIGHT TO PROTECT YOURSELF, AND THE RIGHT TO SURVIVE. [APPLAUSE] IT IS NOT BESTOWED BY MAN, BUT GRANTED BY GOD TO ALL AMERICANS AS OUR AMERICAN BIRTHRIGHT.

Full speech
https://www.c-span.org/video/?441475-3/conservativ...

Right to survive, against who? They murdered the natives to a point of extinction and the UK, France and Spain have no intentions to re-invade and reclaim the land, their bloated military is there to defend them against other military threats. So who? It's going to be other armed citizens of the USA and there's the self-inflicted problem.

[davepoth]

4x4Tyke said:

It is reported that a lot of businesses are withdrawing funding from the NRA. I have to wonder what the business justification is for Airlines, Car hire, Banks etc to fund them.

All they're doing is eliminating perks they gave to NRA members, the same sort of perks they might have given to armed forces veterans, etc.

The NRA has done a very good job over the last 50 years of equating guns = American in their supporters' eyes - and their supporters include the Republican party.

Big business is an important part of the equation, but there are moves to get the Florida teachers' pension fund to divest from gun firms.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-22...

If that starts to snowball and large numbers of pensions start to divest, it could destroy the US gun industry. That's probably the best way of going about it.

[jmorgan]

Remington were already in trouble.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/13/re...

Interesting comments on the long term trends.

[frankenstein12]

Countdown said:

frankenstein12 said:

So it gets worse and there is all sorts coming out now.

Apparently there were 4 browsed officers outside the school including the one who was seen on camera hiding behind a concrete pillar while the shooting was going on inside the school.

That suggests that arming schoolteachers is an even more stupid idea than originally thought.

frankenstein12 said:

It is also coming to light that there was an agreement between the school board and police to not arrest or charge students for crimes or bad behaviour as it meant the school got good grades and extra funding.

The browsed police (local pd) were actively subverting the law and when students from the school were caught with stolen property instead of raising a criminal case against the students they would log the stolen goods as found items/lost property which meant they would go into a storage unit and gather dust and the student caught with stolen goods would be released without charge etc.

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

What it has relevant is that the students were basically being taught that there was no punishment for bad behaviour as the police and school were protecting them from punishment. In turn skewing their world perspective and helping with their ideology that they could do anything they wanted.

[rscott]

frankenstein12 said:

What it has relevant is that the students were basically being taught that there was no punishment for bad behaviour as the police and school were protecting them from punishment. In turn skewing their world perspective and helping with their ideology that they could do anything they wanted.

They were spending them to special classes to try and help those with behavioural issues . Seems a reasonable approach.

I see you've ignored the quote from the sheriff where he confirms they still have the ability to arrest if they feel it necessary?

[frankenstein12]

Byker28i said:

rscott said:

frankenstein12 said:

Not a big fan of Clinton news network but since its THE liberal anti Trump news outlet...

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkla...


http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-s...

Unfortunately I cannot find anything in a Google search about the tweets I saw yesterday but I will try find them to see if I can post the source so people can read, research and make their decisions on validity etc.

So nothing to back up your claims about deals between the school board and the sheriff's department?

As for the Daily Caller link... Even if they'd responded to the reports about him being a risk, what could they legally have done? They've got no powers to remove his legally purchased weapons.

So something about 4 more fully trained policemen standing off, yet the one guard on site was supposed to go storming in?
I think this says something about the training they've had, doesn't it?

Anything about you claim of the deals between the schoolboard and sheriff, or are you just quoting Alex Jones?

Please try reading my posts rather than putting your personal perspective and ignoring whats written.

I have provided links to the broward county and school board issues and suggested people investigate the links and information contained for accuracy and veracity.

I also stated there were 4 police officers on scene while the shooting was going on in the school and they did not enter the school to tackle the shooter which is a fundamental part of their job. part of it seems to be linked to the behaviours between the ounty authorities and school boards to try make sure the school got good national scores and extre funding by having their students showing as never getting in trouble

Edited by frankenstein12 on Saturday 24th February 18:33

[frankenstein12]

Bacon Is Proof said:

frankenstein12 said:

Yes I am "The Idiot" for suggesting a "safe" practical midway solution to the issue as part of the solution.

.

Arming school teachers is safe?
You're coming across as a moron, but writing "FACT" paints you as a troll.
Would you care to reply and remove any doubt?

Yeah i am the troll. One of the only people offering a middle ground solution instead of a myopic ingrained ideological view from one side or the other. Ban guns or give all teachers guns apparently is the viewpoint that sacceptable.

Well frankly I feel deeply sorry for americans and their kids as they are fked if even on a simple internet forum people are so stupid and ingrained in their thinking they cannot consider a compromise and instead resort to insulting other forum members for suggesting compromise solutions.

[frankenstein12]

rscott said:

frankenstein12 said:

What it has relevant is that the students were basically being taught that there was no punishment for bad behaviour as the police and school were protecting them from punishment. In turn skewing their world perspective and helping with their ideology that they could do anything they wanted.

They were spending them to special classes to try and help those with behavioural issues . Seems a reasonable approach.

I see you've ignored the quote from the sheriff where he confirms they still have the ability to arrest if they feel it necessary?

Could you at least have the common decency of reading the links I posted that were asked for before commenting?

[4x4Tyke]

mike9009 said:

frankenstein12 said:

Ok so your response to reduce the threat to schools/soft targets is? And lets be realistic here since there is no way at all they can ban guns in the US due to the second amendment.

Have you checked the 13th and 21st Amendments?

... and the 2nd Amendment, is, an amendment.

[Ayahuasca]

Is it not quite are for the shooter to survive the shooting in these circumstances?

Not that there was much point in surviving - a death sentence is pretty much guaranteed.

[anonymous-user]

4x4Tyke said:

It is reported that a lot of businesses are withdrawing funding from the NRA. I have to wonder what the business justification is for Airlines, Car hire, Banks etc to fund them.

I got the impression most of them had relationships that consisted of discounts etc rather than direct funding.

[Ayahuasca]

So the NRA is the major stumbling block to US gun control legislation?

The NRA has 5 million members, that is about 1.6 percent of the US population.

Not many people, in the scheme of things.

Why don't gun control advocates join the NRA, and when there are enough of them, vote down the NRA's policies? It costs $40 to join for a year.

[Moonhawk]

Vipers said:

On the news last night trump said "If we arm teachers and their guns are concealed the crazy man who walked in wouldn't even know who had it, and that's good, the teacher would have shot the hell out of him before he knew what happened"

Erm, except he would since you will be openly advertising the fact that teachers are being armed.

First thing a gunman would do is take out the teacher.

How many students could a shooter take out in a class before a teacher from a neighbouring room figured out what was happening and came to intervene.

[RobDickinson]

The new school uniform..

[jmorgan]

Ayahuasca said:

So the NRA is the major stumbling block to US gun control legislation?

The NRA has 5 million members, that is about 1.6 percent of the US population.

Not many people, in the scheme of things.

Why don't gun control advocates join the NRA, and when there are enough of them, vote down the NRA's policies? It costs $40 to join for a year.

More interesting where they fund politicians and by how much then compare that to the membership numbers.

[DurianIceCream]

JuniorD said:

If teachers being armed is such a good idea, how come they don’t seem to bring their own weapons to work already?

Schools are generally gun free zones. It would be illegal for a teacher to bring a firearm onto campus. Law enforcement are permitted to bring firearms into a gun free zone. Mass killers aren't permitted to, but they do it anyway.