Two killed at a crossing near Horsham

[HoHoHo]

Very sadly as I cycled around the corner from Sumners Ponds just before 9am this morning a was greeted by what can only be described as a war zone.

I have honestly never seen anything like it. If you took a car and ripped it apart as best you could you wouldn’t do as good a job as the train had done. The remains of a car strewn along the track, a building on fire and other sights I’d rather not describe on this forum Memories of the Shoreham air crash flood back (sadly I was also there that day), I hoped I wouldn’t see such carnage again.

It was clear there was nothing I/we could do. I was asked if I had any medical training and I don’t but we could see it was simply a gesture from a train driver.

It would be wrong to speculate what has happened but what I can say is the barrier was down and yet a car was hit by a train. The barriers only cover half the road width and I just hope the driver didn’t drive around the barrier that was down hoping to get across the track a bit quicker. Why there aren’t two barriers to ensure cars can’t get across is beyond me.....more so today than any other day.

I understand a 72 year,old grandfather taking his grandson to football we’re both killed. RIP to both of you. I couldn’t do anything to help you but if I could have I would have done so

[Robertj21a]

HoHoHo said:

Very sadly as I cycled around the corner from Sumners Ponds just before 9am this morning a was greeted by what can only be described as a war zone.

I have honestly never seen anything like it. If you took a car and ripped it apart as best you could you wouldn’t do as good a job as the train had done. The remains of a car strewn along the track, a building on fire and other sights I’d rather not describe on this forum Memories of the Shoreham air crash flood back (sadly I was also there that day), I hoped I wouldn’t see such carnage again.

It was clear there was nothing I/we could do. I was asked if I had any medical training and I don’t but we could see it was simply a gesture from a train driver.

It would be wrong to speculate what has happened but what I can say is the barrier was down and yet a car was hit by a train. The barriers only cover half the road width and I just hope the driver didn’t drive around the barrier that was down hoping to get across the track a bit quicker. Why there aren’t two barriers to ensure cars can’t get across is beyond me.....more so today than any other day.

I understand a 72 year,old grandfather taking his grandson to football we’re both killed. RIP to both of you. I couldn’t do anything to help you but if I could have I would have done so

It seems that 2-3 trains were all passing through fairly close together. Presumably he knows the road well as I understand it's a fairly quiet back lane.

[HoHoHo]

Robertj21a said:

It seems that 2-3 trains were all passing through fairly close together. Presumably he knows the road well as I understand it's a fairly quiet back lane.

It would appear so bearing in mind there were two trains at the crossing.’

It’s a B road and very quiet, correct

[Eric Mc]

What a sad thing to witness.

[rs1952]

HoHoHo said:

Why there aren’t two barriers to ensure cars can’t get across is beyond me.....more so today than any other day.

Half barrier crossings are intended to prevent cars being trapped on the track when both barriers are down.

[saaby93]

On the beeb
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-430973...

Both barriers are down in the pic



Assuming theres nothing about the barrieres going up by mistake is there a history of people having to wait ages for a second train to come through?

[croyde]

How sad. Awful.

Crossing by Betchworth station in Surrey is double barrier luckily as I have waited at Midnight for over 10 minutes after the barrier has closed before a goods train has thundered through.

I wouldn't but I guess some might think it worth nipping thru if they are local and miffed at waiting so long.

[valiant]

I take it that this crossing is not controlled by a bloke in an adjacent box but remotely and automatically elsewhere?

Presumably covered by cctv in that case?

Horrible thing to come across in any case.

I've seen damage caused by a train in a slow speed impact and it was significant. Anything at a higher speed and it's only ever going to be total carnage.

[demic]

Very sad, thoughts with the Driver, the family of the deceased and the OP and anybody else who had to witness such a terrible scene.

With regards to the question “why no full barriers” this type of crossing is fully automatic and controlled by the passage of trains. An approaching train hits a treadle or occupies a track curcuit set distance from the crossing (depending on line speed-the higher the speed the greater the distance). This sets the warning lights going, shortly after the barriers drop and then about 30-40 seconds after that the train passes over. This type of crossing is not protected by a stop signal (you will get a proceed aspect weather the barriers are up or down) nor is there any human intervention in the process. Once the train starts the process the barriers are coming down. Hence the need to have half barriers to allow any trapped cars or pedestrians to safely move clear of the crossing.

A full barrier crossing will be protected by stop signals. The crossing is monitored either locally by a crossing keeper or via CCTV from signal box that may be many miles away. The crossing has to be clear, the barriers fully down and detection on the barriers obtained (proving curcuit to show the barriers are fully down) before the signal or or crossing keeper can clear the signal to allow the train to proceed, hence if there is somebody trapped on the crossing the train can be stopped safely.

Out of respect for the dead I won’t speculate on what may or may not have happened, it’ll all come out in the RAIB report

[HoHoHo]

Had a pretty st night albeit not as st as some Got very drunk which actually didn’t help at all.

If’s and but’s are running through my head, why didn’t I at least go and see if there was any sign of life. I think I knew what was what and the fire was so intense with who knows what in that little building about to go pop and bang again and it would have been difficult to get to the young lad. It’s funny, in this day and age one doesn’t want to get too close in case you’re seen as interfering or just being nosey so I stood there and looked like a right plonka, just staring. I also know for-all about medicine so I didn’t think I could be of any help. One man shortly afterwards arrived and started to take pictures with his camera phone. I asked him to stop out of respect which he did but that’s what some do these days

How the emergency services cope I really don’t know, I guess you just get on with it and then go home and make dinner and give your loved ones a cuddle.

Edited by HoHoHo on Sunday 18th February 11:53

[silverfoxcc]

If anyone wants to know how these work in depth, there is a thread going on Rail UK forums ( mostly occupied by current staff)

[saaby93]

silverfoxcc said:

If anyone wants to know how these work in depth, there is a thread going on Rail UK forums ( mostly occupied by current staff)

Ok
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/level-crossin...
one suggestion in there is that the car driver may have thought the barriers stuck down after the second train had gone through, zigzagged through to be hit by the third train, and that they dont really know how barriers work

Edited by saaby93 on Sunday 18th February 15:56

[Earthdweller]

HoHoHo said:

Had a pretty st night albeit not as st as some Got very drunk which actually didn’t help at all.

If’s and but’s are running through my head, why didn’t I at least go and see if there was any sign of life. I think I knew what was what and the fire was so intense with who knows what in that little building about to go pop and bang again and it would have been difficult to get to the young lad. It’s funny, in this day and age one doesn’t want to get too close in case you’re seen as interfering or just being nosey so I stood there and looked like a right plonka, just staring. I also know for-all about medicine so I didn’t think I could be of any help. One man shortly afterwards arrived and started to take pictures with his camera phone. I asked him to stop out of respect which he did but that’s what some do these days

How the emergency services cope I really don’t know, I guess you just get on with it and then go home and make dinner and give your loved ones a cuddle.

Edited by HoHoHo on Sunday 18th February 11:53

Please please don’t beat yourself up over this

You are far better not having seen anymore than you needed too

There is in all likelihood absolutely nothing that you could have done

Even if the victims were still alive ( highly unlikely) there is nothing that you could have done .. a major trauma team would be unlikely to do any good

As someone who has seen far far too much death and destruction trust me it doesn’t go away and it leaves a lasting mark

Please be grateful that you only saw what you did and be glad that you weren’t involved

Sudden, violent and traumatic death is never easy to witness or reconcile

Hope you can get over it quickly and move on

[djc206]

HoHoHo said:

Had a pretty st night albeit not as st as some Got very drunk which actually didn’t help at all.

If’s and but’s are running through my head, why didn’t I at least go and see if there was any sign of life. I think I knew what was what and the fire was so intense with who knows what in that little building about to go pop and bang again and it would have been difficult to get to the young lad. It’s funny, in this day and age one doesn’t want to get too close in case you’re seen as interfering or just being nosey so I stood there and looked like a right plonka, just staring. I also know for-all about medicine so I didn’t think I could be of any help. One man shortly afterwards arrived and started to take pictures with his camera phone. I asked him to stop out of respect which he did but that’s what some do these days

How the emergency services cope I really don’t know, I guess you just get on with it and then go home and make dinner and give your loved ones a cuddle.

Edited by HoHoHo on Sunday 18th February 11:53

Not quite the same thing but a friend of mine was found dead in his flat by my girlfriend and a friend a couple of weeks ago after we got concerned about him. I turned to my dad, a retired copper who has seen hundreds of situations like the one you witnessed over the years for his advice which was what he called a “hot debrief”. Talk about what you saw and how you feel with someone you know well, just keep talking, don’t blame yourself, the ifs and buts don’t change anything and in your particular case it’s clear to all (and indeed yourself) that there was nothing you could do. Cry if you need to cry, get angry if you need to get angry, use dark humour if that works but mostly just talk. Having a beer is ok, you know as well as I do that having too many won’t help but try not to fall into the trap of using alcohol to numb things, it’s very easy to do. If you need support in the long run your GP can refer you to someone, alternatively many employers offer a third party counselling service. I’ve paraphrased his advice and it’s bloody obvious stuff but he assured me it’s served him well over the last 30 years. Good luck.

[HoHoHo]

Earthdweller said:

Advice

djc206 said:

Advice

Thanks and appreciated.

I was going to ride out to the crossing today as I felt the desire to have another look but thought better of it and washed the car!

I feel so sad for those close to both, it appears he was a local lad who was a talented sportsman......it’s such a tragedy.

[Chrisgr31]

HoHoHo said:

Had a pretty st night albeit not as st as some Got very drunk which actually didn’t help at all.

If’s and but’s are running through my head[/footnote]

As others have said there is absolutely nothing you could have done in this incident for the two that sadly died, and so whilst you are always going to think could I have done more the reality is you couldn't. So do not beat yourself up about it. Don't forget that if you can't stop thinking about it there are organisations that you can talk to like the Samaritans (call 116 123) who will be able to talk through this and have expert on railway accidents.

[Shakermaker]

Very tragic news so close to home as well. A quiet road, but a busy stretch of track. Always when its so close to home you worry that its someone you know as well, even if not that close.

(Also - interesting to know the type of barriers and why they're only half-size ones as well, though learning that through such tragic means)

[aeropilot]

HoHoHo said:

Had a pretty st night albeit not as st as some Got very drunk which actually didn’t help at all.

If’s and but’s are running through my head, why didn’t I at least go and see if there was any sign of life. I think I knew what was what and the fire was so intense with who knows what in that little building about to go pop and bang again and it would have been difficult to get to the young lad. It’s funny, in this day and age one doesn’t want to get too close in case you’re seen as interfering or just being nosey so I stood there and looked like a right plonka, just staring. I also know for-all about medicine so I didn’t think I could be of any help. One man shortly afterwards arrived and started to take pictures with his camera phone. I asked him to stop out of respect which he did but that’s what some do these days

Actually, you did do something very useful stopping that man taking photos - so well done. Acting as a barrier to stop ghoulish gawping until emergency services arrive is often the best course of action, if there's nothing you can actually do otherwise. Helps preserve scene etc.
Have done the same myself.
My old man was a WW2 vet as well as doing 30 years service in the Met.Police so I grew up with service/Police 'black humour' as the way of coping with such events. People who haven't been in those situations on a regular basis think its being callous and disrespectful, but its often the best way to detach yourself from the situation.

[HoHoHo]

aeropilot said:

HoHoHo said:

Had a pretty st night albeit not as st as some Got very drunk which actually didn’t help at all.

If’s and but’s are running through my head, why didn’t I at least go and see if there was any sign of life. I think I knew what was what and the fire was so intense with who knows what in that little building about to go pop and bang again and it would have been difficult to get to the young lad. It’s funny, in this day and age one doesn’t want to get too close in case you’re seen as interfering or just being nosey so I stood there and looked like a right plonka, just staring. I also know for-all about medicine so I didn’t think I could be of any help. One man shortly afterwards arrived and started to take pictures with his camera phone. I asked him to stop out of respect which he did but that’s what some do these days

Actually, you did do something very useful stopping that man taking photos - so well done. Acting as a barrier to stop ghoulish gawping until emergency services arrive is often the best course of action, if there's nothing you can actually do otherwise. Helps preserve scene etc.
Have done the same myself.
My old man was a WW2 vet as well as doing 30 years service in the Met.Police so I grew up with service/Police 'black humour' as the way of coping with such events. People who haven't been in those situations on a regular basis think its being callous and disrespectful, but its often the best way to detach yourself from the situation.

I've since revisited the scene - I just felt the need to go back and see the crossing again. Had a good chat with the LTP and local bobbies who are involved.

I have also provided a witness statement and drawing to the police, there's a fairly interesting piece of evidence that I saw being moved prior to the police arriving and I needed to make them aware of such so they are aware what was where when it happened.

Still feel a bit st, the entire episode consumes your day and your evening, images of what happened are pretty grim. You forget momentarily and then bang it's all there again.

In some respects I'm glad I didn't try and help any more than I did, I'm not sure I'm strong enough to see what was there

[surveyor]

I saw this and instantly winced.

One of my daughter best friends lost a cousin when her grandparents car was hit by a train on a crossing.

Horrible thing for both the deceased and those left behind.