Stormzy’s attack on TM, justified or not?
Discussion
The Surveyor said:
R8Steve said:
The only reason that most people will have heard of him is through his opinions on the Greenfell situation, not his music.
He was performing on the Brits because of his music's popularity, not his politics. Why should his appearance on the Brits exclude him from commenting on politics?
As for your response to my Lakanal inquirypost, and the role of some politicians in it,
if your proffesion is indeed a surveyor, then you may be better qualified to post on it than me.
Especially the similarity between the cladding used at both Lakanal and Grenfell tower blocks
and Brandon Lewis's refusal to follow recomendations re sprinklers.
Having said that there is already a lot of information about it already in the Grenfell thread,
But I have my suspicions that you already know that,
The Surveyor said:
The enquiry and the technical review are two different (but obviously linked) elements.
The enquiry is to establish the background and whether there is a need for prosecutions etc. If the enquiry was rushed, people would rightly cry 'cover-up', it will take a year or two.
The separate technical review is already well underway, The government commissioned Judith Hackitt to independently review the Building regs and Fire Safety on the back of Grenfell. She did the Piper Alpha enquiry which led to significant safety improvement in the off-shore industry so she has 'form'. The interim report was published in December and is pretty damming of the whole design, specification, construction and procurement processes which have evolved over the last few decades. Recommendations are going to have huge impact on the way tall buildings are build, refurbished, and managed, and rightly so. Any of those inquisitive and perhaps impressionable people may chose to ignore this to maintain their bias of course.
As for Stormzy, salt of the earth and good Christian lad.....
I was refering to the inquiry, or rather the time it's taking to releaseThe enquiry is to establish the background and whether there is a need for prosecutions etc. If the enquiry was rushed, people would rightly cry 'cover-up', it will take a year or two.
The separate technical review is already well underway, The government commissioned Judith Hackitt to independently review the Building regs and Fire Safety on the back of Grenfell. She did the Piper Alpha enquiry which led to significant safety improvement in the off-shore industry so she has 'form'. The interim report was published in December and is pretty damming of the whole design, specification, construction and procurement processes which have evolved over the last few decades. Recommendations are going to have huge impact on the way tall buildings are build, refurbished, and managed, and rightly so. Any of those inquisitive and perhaps impressionable people may chose to ignore this to maintain their bias of course.
As for Stormzy, salt of the earth and good Christian lad.....
the results of, into Lakanal tower block in 2009.
I
ZX10R NIN said:
You do realise young white males stab other young white males to death at a greater rates than young black males do.
A quick google found these figures from 2010 I think-They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54 per cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67 per cent. Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob and snatching property.
Just over 12 per cent of London’s 7.5 million population is black, including those of mixed black and white parentage, while 69 per cent is white, according to the Office for National Statistics.
The police figures also show that black men are twice as likely to be victims. They made up 29 per cent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 per cent of the male victims of knife crime.
I realise the way you’ve worded your statement is about white victims of stabbing but you have to admit that there is a massive issue with the figures and the disproportionate results.
dazwalsh said:
From ITV
Stormzy used his Brit Awards performance to launch an attack on Theresa May and her Government over the Grenfell Tower tragedy.
The London-born grime artist performed Blinded By Your Grace Pt 2 while being showered by water, making the Prime Minister the target of his ire in the opening lines.
“Yo Theresa May, where’s the money for Grenfell?" Stormzy rapped.
"What, you thought we just forgot about Grenfell? You criminals, and you’ve got the cheek to call us savages, you should do some jail time, you should pay some damages, you should burn your house down and see if you can manage this."
I quite liked the chap before this outburst, wtf was he thinking? Morons will blindly follow what he says given his stature, including Labour MP david lammy who praised him for ‘“speaking the truth”
I dont very much care for Theresa May but the one area where i think she faced unfair criticism was Grenfell, just because she didnt go down and give them a cuddle. I think Stormzy has overstepped the mark here.
In other words, he is making £££ off the tragedy by trying to look good in front of his intended audience.Stormzy used his Brit Awards performance to launch an attack on Theresa May and her Government over the Grenfell Tower tragedy.
The London-born grime artist performed Blinded By Your Grace Pt 2 while being showered by water, making the Prime Minister the target of his ire in the opening lines.
“Yo Theresa May, where’s the money for Grenfell?" Stormzy rapped.
"What, you thought we just forgot about Grenfell? You criminals, and you’ve got the cheek to call us savages, you should do some jail time, you should pay some damages, you should burn your house down and see if you can manage this."
I quite liked the chap before this outburst, wtf was he thinking? Morons will blindly follow what he says given his stature, including Labour MP david lammy who praised him for ‘“speaking the truth”
I dont very much care for Theresa May but the one area where i think she faced unfair criticism was Grenfell, just because she didnt go down and give them a cuddle. I think Stormzy has overstepped the mark here.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 22 February 18:59
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The masks have all started to slip, just as I knew they would. My previous comments were justified as there is clearly a racial element to the responses now coming out of this thread. As I said, maybe their children and grand children will be a little less bigoted.
Tonberry said:
The masks have all started to slip, just as I knew they would. My previous comments were justified as there is clearly a racial element to the responses now coming out of this thread.
As I said, maybe their children and grand children will be a little less bigoted.
That's pretty insulting for those that think poorly of him (as I) not for reasons of taste or that he 'speaks for a generation' but that he's hijacked that social commentary but without articulacy, intelligence or reason - and that in itself is a shame. We need (and will have) social commentary in music otherwise it's muzac and only serves to line the pockets of the producers, but just rapping back to your home crowd the obvious first layer grudges they share does nothing for society except to divide it further and to be written off by everyone outside that set as just 'mumbling nonsense' - which gives the more cynical the view that perhaps he himself is just using them as a tool for his own ego / career and doesn't actually give two figs.As I said, maybe their children and grand children will be a little less bigoted.
If you're going to start bandying around terms like 'rascist', you should be clear who you mean at least.
Tonberry said:
The masks have all started to slip, just as I knew they would. My previous comments were justified as there is clearly a racial element to the responses now coming out of this thread.
As I said, maybe their children and grand children will be a little less bigoted.
Try opening your ears and listen to what he has to say as it is on that that I have formulated my view that he is a tAs I said, maybe their children and grand children will be a little less bigoted.
t, just like I think Lilly Allen is a tt and Billy Brag, all tts based on what they say.It only seems to be you that is attributing people's views on him to his colour, why is that?
Edited by gruffalo on Sunday 25th February 08:58
andy_s said:
That's pretty insulting for those that think poorly of him (as I) not for reasons of taste or that he 'speaks for a generation' but that he's hijacked that social commentary but without articulacy, intelligence or reason - and that in itself is a shame. We need (and will have) social commentary in music otherwise it's muzac and only serves to line the pockets of the producers, but just rapping back to your home crowd the obvious first layer grudges they share does nothing for society except to divide it further and to be written off by everyone outside that set as just 'mumbling nonsense' - which gives the more cynical the view that perhaps he himself is just using them as a tool for his own ego / career and doesn't actually give two figs.
If you're going to start bandying around terms like 'rascist', you should be clear who you mean at least.
I don't think its insulting at all - especially not to those who hold a particular set of views. I'm not the one who has taken this thread into the realms of, and to paraphrase, "the black man is stabbing each other to death, maybe Stormzy should tackle that instead of complaining".If you're going to start bandying around terms like 'rascist', you should be clear who you mean at least.
Entirely irrelevant to this thread so why has it gone there?
Secondly, what has articulation and the way you choose to express yourself got to do with the validity of your message? He has something to say and people are clearly listening.
Tonberry said:
andy_s said:
That's pretty insulting for those that think poorly of him (as I) not for reasons of taste or that he 'speaks for a generation' but that he's hijacked that social commentary but without articulacy, intelligence or reason - and that in itself is a shame. We need (and will have) social commentary in music otherwise it's muzac and only serves to line the pockets of the producers, but just rapping back to your home crowd the obvious first layer grudges they share does nothing for society except to divide it further and to be written off by everyone outside that set as just 'mumbling nonsense' - which gives the more cynical the view that perhaps he himself is just using them as a tool for his own ego / career and doesn't actually give two figs.
If you're going to start bandying around terms like 'rascist', you should be clear who you mean at least.
I don't think its insulting at all - especially not to those who hold a particular set of views. I'm not the one who has taken this thread into the realms of, and to paraphrase, "the black man is stabbing each other to death, maybe Stormzy should tackle that instead of complaining".If you're going to start bandying around terms like 'rascist', you should be clear who you mean at least.
Entirely irrelevant to this thread so why has it gone there?
Secondly, what has articulation and the way you choose to express yourself got to do with the validity of your message? He has something to say and people are clearly listening.
Your second point is answered twice by me in this thread already.
BJG1 said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
Grime, gangster rap and so on all survive on sad white kids buying it thinking they are some sort of urban gangsters themselves. When really they are soft mummys boys, it's sad.
You're a racist piece of st.god save the queen and her fascist regime
BJG1 said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
Grime, gangster rap and so on all survive on sad white kids buying it thinking they are some sort of urban gangsters themselves. When really they are soft mummys boys, it's sad.
You're a racist piece of st.Anyhow I have as much interest in the political views of Stormzy as I do in those of Justin Bieber.
From the comments and pictures posted he just seems to offer the usual empty glorification of violence with a side order of unlimited welfare spending.
Not entirely sure how this vision is supposed to unite future generations, most of whom will become staid taxpayers who want safe streets.
Back was I was a kid the big star at one point was MC hammer we aren't all wearing parachute trousers now.
BJG1 said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
Grime, gangster rap and so on all survive on sad white, black, brown kids buying it thinking they are some sort of urban gangsters themselves. When really they are soft mummys boys, it's sad.
You're a racist piece of st.It's all about what the music is about and the culture surrounding it. And why these kids buying it do so.
If it was because they just like the music then fine and personally find the odd song ok. But I personally believe much of its success it not driven by the quality of the music but the culture surrounding it. And it's a degenerate sad violent one at that and any one who wants to try and emulate and copy it are sad.
Topbuzz said:
A quick google found these figures from 2010 I think-
They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54 per cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67 per cent. Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob and snatching property.
Just over 12 per cent of London’s 7.5 million population is black, including those of mixed black and white parentage, while 69 per cent is white, according to the Office for National Statistics.
The police figures also show that black men are twice as likely to be victims. They made up 29 per cent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 per cent of the male victims of knife crime.
I realise the way you’ve worded your statement is about white victims of stabbing but you have to admit that there is a massive issue with the figures and the disproportionate results.
I was talking in terms of the UK's figures if you take Glasgow or Cardiff's figures I'm sure you'll find the reverse that's why I didn't take one areas figures when I wrote my post.They show that among those proceeded against for street crimes, 54 per cent were black; for robbery, 59 per cent; and for gun crimes, 67 per cent. Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob and snatching property.
Just over 12 per cent of London’s 7.5 million population is black, including those of mixed black and white parentage, while 69 per cent is white, according to the Office for National Statistics.
The police figures also show that black men are twice as likely to be victims. They made up 29 per cent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 per cent of the male victims of knife crime.
I realise the way you’ve worded your statement is about white victims of stabbing but you have to admit that there is a massive issue with the figures and the disproportionate results.
gooner1 said:
The Surveyor said:
R8Steve said:
The only reason that most people will have heard of him is through his opinions on the Greenfell situation, not his music.
He was performing on the Brits because of his music's popularity, not his politics. Why should his appearance on the Brits exclude him from commenting on politics?
.....
The fact he took to opportunity to comment on Grenfell is upto him, it's his platform and he's free to use it as he feels fit. Some with think he's the people poet and a hero, other will think he's a dick.
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