How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)

How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)

TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED
Author
Discussion

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
turbobloke said:
1. When English law contradicts EU law, EU law prevails. Costa v ENEL [1964] ECR 585 (ECJ). This over-arching position is worth more than three examples as it covers so much turf. It affects me because I know of the judgement and I consider it to be inappropriate, and who did what/when is irrelevant to that impact.
2. EU law has affected me directly when trying to move money, whether for overall good or ill I consider the personal impact to be detrimental as the banks and the EU have a dodgy track record in terms of financial probity whereas mine is and will remain spotless.
3. EU law on renewables (and climate fairytales generally) has adversely affected me to the tune of ~10^2 GBP/year according to a couple of independent sources posted on climate threads.
Thank you.

1. Isn't that a principle you don't like rather than something that detrimentally affected you?
2. What law and in what way have you been detrimentally affected?
3. I don't know anything about renewable energy directives. Is the climate change levy an EU directive perhaps?
Thank you too smile

1. the legal ruling (i.e. law) affects me as stated
2. already answered kindly rtfp
3. energy bills

I should add that I didn't vote Leave because of any view I had on whether Brexit would affect me adversely or beneficially. I didn't consider the EU impact on me personally as relevant to the status quo before the vote / before we leave and don't consider my personal position as a basis for voting the way I did.

Gloria Slap

8,964 posts

205 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
wc98 said:
i really do hope it does. the last thing we need right now are large swathes of the population going all french in their protesting. i can understand and even sympathise with people opposed to brexit and support their right to campaign for re entry to the eu but there are proper ways to do this. i cannot support uk politicians that in effect are colluding with eu politicians and civil servants to manipulate a result without any consultation with those they represent.

i think they really have failed to take into consideration how people from both sides of the debate will view this,or maybe they have and that is why they don't actually want a second referendum.
what like big fat lies on a bus?
or racist posters?

lol

there is no moral high ground here

Deptford Draylons

10,480 posts

242 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
Gloria Slap said:
what like big fat lies on a bus?
or racist posters?

lol

there is no moral high ground here
I'd put implementing the vote, more than just a little over your big red bus rage. Seems a tad more important for just about everything you might want politicians to believe in and do in all areas.

tangerine_sedge

4,699 posts

217 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
wc98 said:
Gloria Slap said:
I see you are getting the excuses in early for the failure of brexit.

Never your fault eh? Always someone else to blame. Twas ever thus.

Will you personally be rioting in this “mother of all riots”? What will they be known as? The bendy banana riiots? The working time directive scuffle? Isn’t it a bit silly to get so angry about something that doesn’t really affect you on a day to day basis? Yes, yes it is. Its pathetic really.




Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 18th June 20:58
there won't be a failure of brexit. there will just be "brexit". not hard, not soft , just brexit. it will be what it will be. we will be leaving the single market, the customs union and quite possibly the echr. how easily it all happens remains to be seen.

i am a recreational sea angler, i spend a lot of time fishing around the uk coast. if there was one group of people that have been affected by eu membership it is anglers and commercial fishermen.at the moment i can no longer catch a bass and take it home to eat, even if it is deep hooked and bleeding to death i have to return it. typical common fisheries blanket rule nonsense that achieves the grand sum of jack st.

i understand the notion of principles when it comes to self governance passes you by, unfortunately for you many others get it. things might be worse post brexit, they might be better. with either scenario there will only be one entity responsible, that entity is the united kingdom. no more passing the buck, stand or fall on our own decision making and ability. if history is anything to go by we will be fine in the long run. with a bit of luck the next lot to get a kick in the bks for wasting tax payers money will the united nations. another lot that went way beyond their remit long ago. you may be happy with unelected bureaucrats empire building on the public purse, me and apparently many others , not so much. have a nice day.
Thats because Bass is almost at a critical stock level. I accept that you might catch one accidentally, hence the potential for a small limit later in the year to allow anglers to keep one per day.

Dont think for a minute that all this will magically get fixed after Brexit. There will still need to be control of fish stocks, and fish dont tend to follow political boundaries.

olimain

949 posts

134 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
Thats because Bass is almost at a critical stock level. I accept that you might catch one accidentally, hence the potential for a small limit later in the year to allow anglers to keep one per day.

Dont think for a minute that all this will magically get fixed after Brexit. There will still need to be control of fish stocks, and fish dont tend to follow political boundaries.
Yet the commercial boats are still allowed to catch 5 tonnes of it? Certainly where I fish (South Coast) bass are abundant - it's another one size fits all approach. A couple of years ago they made it 3 fish per angler per day, then last year it was 1, now this year none - a rec angler who maybe gets out bass fishing 3 times in a year taking one bass per day is hardly going to have a huge impact is it?

It's also done plenty of harm to the charter skippers who used to have specific bass fishing trips (which were very popular and quite expensive) which they can no longer do.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
olimain said:
tangerine_sedge said:
Thats because Bass is almost at a critical stock level. I accept that you might catch one accidentally, hence the potential for a small limit later in the year to allow anglers to keep one per day.

Dont think for a minute that all this will magically get fixed after Brexit. There will still need to be control of fish stocks, and fish dont tend to follow political boundaries.
Yet the commercial boats are still allowed to catch 5 tonnes of it? Certainly where I fish (South Coast) bass are abundant - it's another one size fits all approach. A couple of years ago they made it 3 fish per angler per day, then last year it was 1, now this year none - a rec angler who maybe gets out bass fishing 3 times in a year taking one bass per day is hardly going to have a huge impact is it?

It's also done plenty of harm to the charter skippers who used to have specific bass fishing trips (which were very popular and quite expensive) which they can no longer do.
Indeed. Recreational ban, yet commercial quotas being hit...

You couldn't make up such a fking ridiculous notion.

Mrr T

12,152 posts

264 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
FiF said:
Barnier is saying that the UK will post Brexit be locked out of police and security matters. Rather amusing that in the same breath he speaks of needing a basis of good will. I see no basis of good will evident from the EU or any of its supporters, and any remaining (pun) good will on the UK side rapidly disappearing.

Independent for the report, I refuse to give that rag links, as it is anything but.
Never trust a newspaper. The speech is here.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-18-421...

He just points out the UK is leaving the EU so all the shared relationship between the EU countries, ECJ, community law, the EAW, will no longer apply to the UK. So this needs to be rebuilt but it has to be different.

wc98

10,334 posts

139 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
Thats because Bass is almost at a critical stock level. I accept that you might catch one accidentally, hence the potential for a small limit later in the year to allow anglers to keep one per day.

Dont think for a minute that all this will magically get fixed after Brexit. There will still need to be control of fish stocks, and fish dont tend to follow political boundaries.
no , bass are not a critical stock. have you looked at the "science" behind the claims ? one survey in one area and catch records from boats that don't fish for them around the rest of the country. bass are just another political football that came to the table due to a couple of high profile politicians involved with two "angling" (i use the term loosely, single species orientated zealots would be more accurate) organisations. apologies for off topic post.

ps, better chance of fixing it outside of the common fisheries policy. no arguing with multiple countries with vested interests.

Edited by wc98 on Tuesday 19th June 20:52

Gloria Slap

8,964 posts

205 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
Good to see so many ex-Flexit fans now dismiss it as not really very good.

It is interesting to consider that Flexit drew so many in as the attractive soft landing, avoiding the harsh realities of a hard austere brexit.

But now in the harsh glare of reality it looks a bit naff. Correct.

Keep going, the inevitable conclusion approaches smile

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
Gloria Slap said:
Good to see so many ex-Flexit fans now dismiss it as not really very good.

It is interesting to consider that Flexit drew so many in as the attractive soft landing, avoiding the harsh realities of a hard austere brexit.

But now in the harsh glare of reality it looks a bit naff. Correct.

Keep going, the inevitable conclusion approaches smile
The only 'ex-flexcit fan' that's posted is me - and I've given my reasons which don't tally with your narrative at all.

Especially when I'm now in preference for a 'harder' (although really just swifter) brexit...

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
Gloria Slap said:
Good to see so many ex-Flexit fans now dismiss it as not really very good.

It is interesting to consider that Flexit drew so many in as the attractive soft landing, avoiding the harsh realities of a hard austere brexit.

But now in the harsh glare of reality it looks a bit naff. Correct.

Keep going, the inevitable conclusion approaches smile


Read and appreciate.

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=8...

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
Sway said:
The only 'ex-flexcit fan' that's posted is me - and I've given my reasons which don't tally with your narrative at all.

Especially when I'm now in preference for a 'harder' (although really just swifter) brexit...
A nice smooth glide towards a 3rd country relationship would have been lovely, but sadly not possible.

steveatesh

4,893 posts

163 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
davepoth said:
A nice smooth glide towards a 3rd country relationship would have been lovely, but sadly not possible.
Got to say Richard North has it all nailed in my view. He always said Flexcit was the “least worst option” to leave the EU and as EEA and EfTA are viewed as stepping stones in to the EU they could easily be stepping stones out.

It was only a temporary arrangement until everything was sorted and just needed the political will to sell it as such.

He remains scathing of our politicians and the press/media, with every justification as far as I’m concerned.




jurbie

2,339 posts

200 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
steveatesh said:
He remains scathing of our politicians and the press/media, with every justification as far as I’m concerned.
It was his blog that convinced me to vote remain, it was patently clear that neither our politicians nor our media were up to the job of negotiating a successful exit.It seemed like way to much of a risk to hope Flexcit would suddenly come to the fore and be adopted as the leaving strategy.

steveatesh

4,893 posts

163 months

Wednesday 20th June 2018
quotequote all
jurbie said:
It was his blog that convinced me to vote remain, it was patently clear that neither our politicians nor our media were up to the job of negotiating a successful exit.It seemed like way to much of a risk to hope Flexcit would suddenly come to the fore and be adopted as the leaving strategy.
And you have been proven absolutely right on that call!

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Wednesday 20th June 2018
quotequote all
Gloria Slap said:
Good to see so many ex-Flexit fans now dismiss it as not really very good.

It is interesting to consider that Flexit drew so many in as the attractive soft landing, avoiding the harsh realities of a hard austere brexit.

But now in the harsh glare of reality it looks a bit naff. Correct.

Keep going, the inevitable conclusion approaches smile
I know i said I would post back in 1 month but - enough arse gravy is enough.
Fella - you have a serious bowel problem....

So... Gloria - Put your money where your very large mouth is.

You tell me exactly ( and I do mean exactly) where you think Brexit will finally land. ( You even get to set the rules!!! ( shocker!!!))


That and anything to the more EU means you win.
Anything to the less EU than that means I win.

I will pay £300 to your favourite charity if you win.
You will pay £300 to my favourite charity if I win.

So... Put your money where your mouth and keyboard is.

Man up time.


Oh - and BTW - I chose as my charity "Make a wish"
https://www.make-a-wish.org.uk
This is an amazing charity.
I helped fund raise donkeys years ago, and the kids I met - their stories break your heart.


You game - or are you gammon?



Edit - bks to that- You are so damned sure - let's make it £500.

Ridgemont

6,488 posts

130 months

Wednesday 20th June 2018
quotequote all
Gloria Slap said:
Good to see so many ex-Flexit fans now dismiss it as not really very good.

It is interesting to consider that Flexit drew so many in as the attractive soft landing, avoiding the harsh realities of a hard austere brexit.

But now in the harsh glare of reality it looks a bit naff. Correct.

Keep going, the inevitable conclusion approaches smile
You really are a very odd fellow. Your ability, purposefully or otherwise, to misconstrue posts is second to none. Thick as mince or wilfully trolling? Who knows even two years down the line.

No one has dismissed it: Sway believed it was unobtainable because of EU behaviour post vote.

It’s not ‘not really very good’ and to be honest at this point the temptation really is to launch North style into an adhom about how you are a cretinous mouthbreathing troublemaker with barely a brain cell to run together. But I am not North and it doesn’t advance the debate. So pretend I didn’t type that.

To be fair I hoped against hope EEA/EFTA might be the way forward but largely down to gov incompetence, and remainer intransigence it won’t be. Doesn’t change my view on Brexit one fking iota. It just will be more of an upheaval.

Gloria Slap

8,964 posts

205 months

Wednesday 20th June 2018
quotequote all
Interesting responses.

“thick as mince”

“bet or you’re gammon” - all this aggressive bet or else shouty behaviour comes across as a bit knuckledraggy.

At the end of the day no matter how much you protest, the flexciteers have abandonned their flexcit dream. This was always a false promise as I said pre ref and Richard North was a snake oil/naive blog dreamer, who sucked many in and was held up as having the answers. For the reasons you now abandon flexcit, he doesn’t and never did.

Smiler.

11,752 posts

229 months

Wednesday 20th June 2018
quotequote all
Gloria Slap said:
Interesting responses.

“thick as mince”

“bet or you’re gammon” - all this aggressive bet or else shouty behaviour comes across as a bit knuckledraggy.

At the end of the day no matter how much you protest, the flexciteers have abandonned their flexcit dream. This was always a false promise as I said pre ref and Richard North was a snake oil/naive blog dreamer, who sucked many in and was held up as having the answers. For the reasons you now abandon flexcit, he doesn’t and never did.
rofl

Are you related to JJ?

PS: "flexcit" in every post for at least the next two weeks until slasher gets excited by another word

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Wednesday 20th June 2018
quotequote all
Gloria Slap said:
At the end of the day no matter how much you protest, the flexciteers have abandonned their flexcit dream. This was always a false promise as I said pre ref and Richard North was a snake oil/naive blog dreamer, who sucked many in and was held up as having the answers. For the reasons you now abandon flexcit, he doesn’t and never did.
Is Richard North the guy that claimed the EU will be a lot worse off than we will if they don't give us cake?
TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED