How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)

How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)

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sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
How much brain do you think the two of you have got between yourselves.
More than you!

Where are the quotes from "Leavers" to support your statement?!
wavey

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
How much brain do you think the two of you have got between yourselves.

Look, there's a squirrel, where's Gloria, Oh mx5nut...........
Speaking of slasher..................What's it like flying solo without your wing commander?

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
Read the one I quoted.
I can only assume that you don't understand some of the words, as your claim is in no way supported by the post you quoted.
Never mind.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
...
Obviously the rest of the world are sitting there waiting for us to leave the EU before they start buying from us. The rest of the world don't have the technology to be able to produce anything for themselves....
They are buying more from us than our good friends in the EU on an increasing basis, despite unfavourable trading conditions. Improving those conditions for the specifics of what we're good at can only improve that situation (unless you think favourable trading conditions harms one's ability to sell, in which case it's difficult to see what you like about the EU).

Of course that depends on us actually being capable of improving those trading conditions, and with a couple of generations of career politicians under our belts now, who have learnt to use the EU as a crutch, that may prove challenging for a while. But my bet is we'll get our mojo back. It's obvious we have the talent able to produce desirable product. Let's free them up to do so

Ghibli said:
...
Thank heavens that we have nothing but the best people running our country.

Is this right ?
No, we don't have the best people running our country at the moment. But then the EU political structure is hardly full of the brightest and best now, is it. And Brexit has nothing to do with the quality of our political leaders (Cameron, Brown, Blair and Major all pre-date it).

From a political ideological point of view I think the fewer layers of dross you have, the better. Clear out the layers able to blame each other and then hold the number you do need fully to account. This will take a while. Several GE cycles IMO - the rot didn't set in overnight, it will take a while to correct. But if the electorate remain engaged and, who knows, try and think positively we should get there.

Vanden Saab

13,896 posts

73 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Zod said:
Vanden Saab said:
Ghibli said:
Anyone would think that the EU knows a thing or two about negotiating.

I'm sure we will be better when it comes to the rest of the world.
I am sure you are right...Lets compare how many FTAs the EU have compared to Australia...
Australia has ten FTAs currently in force with China, Japan, Republic of Korea, New Zealand, Singapore, Thailand, US, Chile, the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) (with New Zealand) and Malaysia.

Now the EU …
South Korea,

Oh....
I suggest you do some research. Start with Google, then Wikipedia.
I suggest you read this thread from my post on rather than answering an almost day old post and still being wrong.....
hint:- the EUs own website is often the best source of information about the EU...

Coolbanana

4,383 posts

199 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
El stovey said:
I voted for Brexit, it’s a bit disappointing to note that the most vocal brexiters on here seem to be talking utter nonsense.

It’s like at school when your class got divided into two groups and you see you’re in the one with all the people rubbish at sports or bottom of the class.

It’s a bit worrying really. Come on brexiters, say something positive rather than jingoistic nonsense about the EU falling apart without us and how bad they are.

For me brexit is a positive thing and an opportunity to create new deals and bonds with the EU and other countries. I’m more than confident both the EU and the U.K. will prosper after Brexit.
Good post. smile


I understand your optimism and hope that you are proven correct. I do wish a concrete Plan had been prepared, accounting for all the different scenarios both Remainer's and the EU would come up with, demonstrating various options and possible, realistic solutions and outcomes. If that had been the case, Team Leave could have placated many Remainer's and shown a vision they could get excited about and on-board with.

It isn't that as a Remainer, I and many like me, believe the Sun shines out of the EU's backside and they can do no wrong, far from it, we want to squeeze them for the best deal we can get for the UK - continuously. We appreciate the flaws and the concerns however before we leap, we stubbornly insist upon a Plan we could get behind for the long-haul and at least a decent mini-bar in the lifeboat for the short-term, if nothing else.

What we are instead witnessing, is what we feared and predicted - a Political mess, weak Negotiators and no grand Plan. Better to stay in until one is devised or if one cannot be devised, work from within to reform even if it takes decades. smile

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Coolbanana said:
Good post. smile

I understand your optimism and hope that you are proven correct. I do wish a concrete Plan had been prepared, accounting for all the different scenarios both Remainer's and the EU would come up with, demonstrating various options and possible, realistic solutions and outcomes. If that had been the case, Team Leave could have placated many Remainer's and shown a vision they could get excited about and on-board with.

It isn't that as a Remainer, I and many like me, believe the Sun shines out of the EU's backside and they can do no wrong, far from it, we want to squeeze them for the best deal we can get for the UK - continuously. We appreciate the flaws and the concerns however before we leap, we stubbornly insist upon a Plan we could get behind for the long-haul and at least a decent mini-bar in the lifeboat for the short-term, if nothing else.

What we are instead witnessing, is what we feared and predicted - a Political mess, weak Negotiators and no grand Plan. Better to stay in until one is devised or if one cannot be devised, work from within to reform even if it takes decades. smile
I don't agree with all of it, but by far the most sensible post I've read from you on this topic.

If the EU had shown any willingness to reform, then Remain would have won the referendum and this would quite probably have been the best outcome.

Edited by sidicks on Sunday 22 July 18:31

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
They are buying more from us than our good friends in the EU on an increasing basis ...
Not surprising as the population of the RoW is over ten times that of the EU.

A per capita basis is a different story.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Not surprising as the population of the RoW is over ten times that of the EU.

A per capita basis is a different story.
What's the relevance of 'per capita' in this scenario?

gooner1

10,223 posts

178 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Zod said:
gooner1 said:
Zod said:
Who does deals with payment defaulters?
Have all E.U countries paid their NATO dues?
There is no such thing.
So they have all paid the agreed %2 of GDP.
That's great news, has anyone informed NATO?

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Zod said:
There is one. It's called the Treaty of Rome.

Try again, as amended by various treaties tip to Lisbon.
What does the Treaty of Rome say about the 'divorce bill' ?
There are two things. The first is our obligation to make payments as a Member State. The second is Article 50. Now do your own research. Nothing is as simple as you people think.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
gooner1 said:
So they have all paid the agreed %2 of GDP.
That's great news, has anyone informed NATO?
You don't 'pay' it, you 'spend' it. I guess that is the point they are trying to make.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
gooner1 said:
Zod said:
gooner1 said:
Zod said:
Who does deals with payment defaulters?
Have all E.U countries paid their NATO dues?
There is no such thing.
So they have all paid the agreed %2 of GDP.
That's great news, has anyone informed NATO?
It's not a payment. There are other threads. Try to read them and understand. Just because Donald says it doesn't mean it's true.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
sidicks said:
I can only assume that you don't understand some of the words, as your claim is in no way supported by the post you quoted.
Never mind.
The trouble is sidick. Within seconds of me posting you reply saying straw man.

If you spent anytime at all thinking about what I said you might learn something.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Ghibli said:
The trouble is sidick. Within seconds of me posting you reply saying straw man.
It was a straw man, no-one has claimed any such thing. HTH

Ghibli said:
If you spent anytime at all thinking about what I said you might learn something.
It was pure nonsense.

So I guess you can't support your claim, after all?

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
Zod said:
There are two things. The first is our obligation to make payments as a Member State. The second is Article 50. Now do your own research. Nothing is as simple as you people think.
Neither of which define anything about the 'divorce bill', do they?

Skywalker

3,269 posts

213 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
El stovey said:
I voted for Brexit, it’s a bit disappointing to note that the most vocal brexiters on here seem to be talking utter nonsense.

It’s like at school when your class got divided into two groups and you see you’re in the one with all the people rubbish at sports or bottom of the class.

It’s a bit worrying really. Come on brexiters, say something positive rather than jingoistic nonsense about the EU falling apart without us and how bad they are.

For me brexit is a positive thing and an opportunity to create new deals and bonds with the EU and other countries. I’m more than confident both the EU and the U.K. will prosper after Brexit.
I could not agree more El Stovey.
The benefits for the U.K. should lay in a global partnership of equals which wraps around the globe, and not simply a geographical protection scheme.

This is not a political project or a desire to disempower countries through the establishment of Regions and central coordination council. Vive la difference!!

Treaty organisations such as NATO help provide for defence, and these could be extended if desired.

Immigration into the U.K. has the potential to remain as a great opportunity, and this should be underpinned by a system whereby the best person for the job gets it - and should
Include literacy and the ability to provide for one’s own healthcare until a qualifying period in the U.K. economy has been worked, much like U.K. subjects already have to do when migrating to many other countries around the world. This should be regardless of their country of origin and not preferential just because it is from a sole trading block.

The U.K. should be pursuing bilateral relationships with european partners, although I expect that these will not be allowed by the EU machinery. The CTA worked well for RoI and U.K. for years - it is a pity that the project will undermine this and force Eire to take a more distant relationship.

There should be the options for reaching out to Can/NZ/Aus and learning from them how they diversified their markets when the EEC U.K. threw them and the relationships under the bus in 1973.

A ‘No Deal’ with the EU where both sides sit and have a huff will serve no one.

Having a relevant and authentic U.K. - with the infra of a nation state, such as independent regulatory bodies (CAA, British standards eyc) which collaborate and share globally suitable standards and trade on an equal footing as others does present optimistic opportunities.

It will also help the EU countries be sharper and more relevant too if they are seeking to remain competitive.

Sadly, the EU is a runaway train towards whether it is due to be taken - and you are either on it (with only the impression of influence) or off it. This last element was my prime reason for voting to leave the EU - Remain was never a status quo vote - Remain wa as vite for further compromise and assimilation but without the dignity and integrity of making the case to the people.

So - just waiting for the hissy fit calls of racism, unicorns and little englander now - although the mob moronity which supports it is it’s own special gift of humour. hippy Hey Ho.


Edit for typo.


BigMon

4,155 posts

128 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Coolbanana said:
Good post. smile

I understand your optimism and hope that you are proven correct. I do wish a concrete Plan had been prepared, accounting for all the different scenarios both Remainer's and the EU would come up with, demonstrating various options and possible, realistic solutions and outcomes. If that had been the case, Team Leave could have placated many Remainer's and shown a vision they could get excited about and on-board with.

It isn't that as a Remainer, I and many like me, believe the Sun shines out of the EU's backside and they can do no wrong, far from it, we want to squeeze them for the best deal we can get for the UK - continuously. We appreciate the flaws and the concerns however before we leap, we stubbornly insist upon a Plan we could get behind for the long-haul and at least a decent mini-bar in the lifeboat for the short-term, if nothing else.

What we are instead witnessing, is what we feared and predicted - a Political mess, weak Negotiators and no grand Plan. Better to stay in until one is devised or if one cannot be devised, work from within to reform even if it takes decades. smile
I don't agree with all of it, but by far the most sensible post I've read from you on this topic.
Out of interest, which bits don't you agree with?

I voted remain, but accepted the result (and still do). The only bit of the above I would disagree with is we simply must leave now.

However, this seems to be a pretty accurate summation of where the UK is at the moment:

Political mess, weak Negotiators and no grand plan


anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Ghibli said:
The trouble is sidick. Within seconds of me posting you reply saying straw man.
It was a straw man, no-one has claimed any such thing. HTH

Ghibli said:
If you spent anytime at all thinking about what I said you might learn something.
It was pure nonsense.

So I guess you can't support your claim, after all?
Take a look at the economy of places like China and India? Think what might be happening outside of the EU/UK

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 22nd July 2018
quotequote all
BigMon said:
Out of interest, which bits don't you agree with?
Perhaps you missed my update?
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