How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)
Discussion
B'stard Child said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The problems with the EU. The protectionism, the contempt for democracy, the itch to centralise and micro manage, the insistence that individuals must subordinate their interests to the good of the 'project' which is in effect the state, are not minor details that crept into badly drafted paperwork and can be amended.
They are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
I agree with that - that the EU don’t act to resolve a drunk being at the helm typifies the problemThey are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
Mrr T said:
B'stard Child said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The problems with the EU. The protectionism, the contempt for democracy, the itch to centralise and micro manage, the insistence that individuals must subordinate their interests to the good of the 'project' which is in effect the state, are not minor details that crept into badly drafted paperwork and can be amended.
They are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
I agree with that - that the EU don’t act to resolve a drunk being at the helm typifies the problemThey are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
B'stard Child said:
Mrr T said:
B'stard Child said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The problems with the EU. The protectionism, the contempt for democracy, the itch to centralise and micro manage, the insistence that individuals must subordinate their interests to the good of the 'project' which is in effect the state, are not minor details that crept into badly drafted paperwork and can be amended.
They are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
I agree with that - that the EU don’t act to resolve a drunk being at the helm typifies the problemThey are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
How do you undo an EU decision? Petition your MEP who is unable to propose new legislation or repeal existing legislation?
Mrr T said:
B'stard Child said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The problems with the EU. The protectionism, the contempt for democracy, the itch to centralise and micro manage, the insistence that individuals must subordinate their interests to the good of the 'project' which is in effect the state, are not minor details that crept into badly drafted paperwork and can be amended.
They are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
I agree with that - that the EU don’t act to resolve a drunk being at the helm typifies the problemThey are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
Any comment on one of your EU heroes being drunk whilst attending the NATO Gala?
Is being drunk whilst being at work and in view of the public at at large something your employer would tolerate, or your clients tolerate?
amusingduck said:
B'stard Child said:
Mrr T said:
B'stard Child said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The problems with the EU. The protectionism, the contempt for democracy, the itch to centralise and micro manage, the insistence that individuals must subordinate their interests to the good of the 'project' which is in effect the state, are not minor details that crept into badly drafted paperwork and can be amended.
They are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
I agree with that - that the EU don’t act to resolve a drunk being at the helm typifies the problemThey are hard wired. They are what the EU is for. Part of a continental European Dirigiste tradition that goes back to 18th century Prussia. A belief, so well demonstrated by many of the Remainers on here, that the 'little people' are too stupid and emotional to be allowed a say and a small group of wise officials must make all the decisions.
How do you undo an EU decision? Petition your MEP who is unable to propose new legislation or repeal existing legislation?
And let's not forget these odious control freaks would like to make my previous sentence a criminal offence.
Ghibli said:
gothatway said:
You're both irritating - like a wasp buzzing round someone's head. Incessant and pointless.
I guess that's something you will have to live with.gothatway said:
I will. Unlike a wasp, I cannot swat you, but then you cannot cause me physical pain. I shall do my best to totally ignore you and your repetitive buzzing. If there was some benefit to your involvement, things might be different; but as it is you add nothing.
Thanks for your productive input to the thread. Ghibli said:
gothatway said:
I will. Unlike a wasp, I cannot swat you, but then you cannot cause me physical pain. I shall do my best to totally ignore you and your repetitive buzzing. If there was some benefit to your involvement, things might be different; but as it is you add nothing.
Thanks for your productive input to the thread. Everytime I read a post from you it makes me even more sure I made the right choice
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:Vanden Saab said:
I see John Major has put his oar in again on the Andrew Marr show.....
He said that less well off people are going to be worst hit by a no deal and that ordinary everyday people really are not political....
How an ex-primeminister can be so completely out of touch with the people of the UK is beyond me...
I'd suggest he's bang on tbh.He said that less well off people are going to be worst hit by a no deal and that ordinary everyday people really are not political....
How an ex-primeminister can be so completely out of touch with the people of the UK is beyond me...
They will be the hardest hit of any negative impact and most everyday people are clueless politically.
B'stard Child said:
Ghibli said:
gothatway said:
I will. Unlike a wasp, I cannot swat you, but then you cannot cause me physical pain. I shall do my best to totally ignore you and your repetitive buzzing. If there was some benefit to your involvement, things might be different; but as it is you add nothing.
Thanks for your productive input to the thread. Everytime I read a post from you it makes me even more sure I made the right choice
B'stard Child said:
And my thanks to you for your input in the thread
Everytime I read a post from you it makes me even more sure I made the right choice
I glad that some random bloke on the internet has helped you confirm that your decision was the right one.Everytime I read a post from you it makes me even more sure I made the right choice
Anyway, back to reality and the wonderful job we are making of the negotiations.
[quote=Zod]t's not a payment. There are other threads. Try to read them and understand. Just because Donald says it doesn't mean it's true
You are quite correct re Trump.
Numerous American presidents have made the same point, perhaps
they are all wrong.
Whether the % 2 is a payment or an increased amount of expenditure ,
it is still an agreed increase that has yet to be met.
Strangely the UK has managed to meet the terms, but sadly few others.
Do you consider the fact that nearly 80% of NATO's budget will come from
outside of the EU, when we leave is acceptable?
You are quite correct re Trump.
Numerous American presidents have made the same point, perhaps
they are all wrong.
Whether the % 2 is a payment or an increased amount of expenditure ,
it is still an agreed increase that has yet to be met.
Strangely the UK has managed to meet the terms, but sadly few others.
Do you consider the fact that nearly 80% of NATO's budget will come from
outside of the EU, when we leave is acceptable?
Vanden Saab said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Vanden Saab said:
I see John Major has put his oar in again on the Andrew Marr show.....
He said that less well off people are going to be worst hit by a no deal and that ordinary everyday people really are not political....
How an ex-primeminister can be so completely out of touch with the people of the UK is beyond me...
I'd suggest he's bang on tbh.He said that less well off people are going to be worst hit by a no deal and that ordinary everyday people really are not political....
How an ex-primeminister can be so completely out of touch with the people of the UK is beyond me...
They will be the hardest hit of any negative impact and most everyday people are clueless politically.
Someone has to bear the brunt of that and as Major says, the less you have, the more it's likely to hurt.
Do you think Bojo and Mogg will be worse off?
Go ask 100 people on the street who the Shadow Chancellor is or who the Home Secretary is and they just won't have a clue.
It doesn't mean they're thick it's just not something most people take an interest in.
You only had to look at some of the interviews post-referendum "I voted Brexit to teach the government a lesson".
"People, people, people". He has a point.
gooner1]od said:
t's not a payment. There are other threads. Try to read them and understand. Just because Donald says it doesn't mean it's true
You are quite correct re Trump.
Numerous American presidents have made the same point, perhaps
they are all wrong.
Whether the % 2 is a payment or an increased amount of expenditure ,
it is still an agreed increase that has yet to be met.
Strangely the UK has managed to meet the terms, but sadly few others.
Do you consider the fact that nearly 80% of NATO's budget will come from
outside of the EU, when we leave is acceptable?
How much does Russia spend on defence? In absolute terms and as a % of GDP?You are quite correct re Trump.
Numerous American presidents have made the same point, perhaps
they are all wrong.
Whether the % 2 is a payment or an increased amount of expenditure ,
it is still an agreed increase that has yet to be met.
Strangely the UK has managed to meet the terms, but sadly few others.
Do you consider the fact that nearly 80% of NATO's budget will come from
outside of the EU, when we leave is acceptable?
Ghibli said:
B'stard Child said:
And my thanks to you for your input in the thread
Everytime I read a post from you it makes me even more sure I made the right choice
I glad that some random bloke on the internet has helped you confirm that your decision was the right oneEverytime I read a post from you it makes me even more sure I made the right choice
Coolbanana said:
...
It isn't that as a Remainer, I and many like me, believe the Sun shines out of the EU's backside and they can do no wrong, far from it, we want to squeeze them for the best deal we can get for the UK - continuously. We appreciate the flaws and the concerns however before we leap, we stubbornly insist upon a Plan we could get behind for the long-haul and at least a decent mini-bar in the lifeboat for the short-term, if nothing else.
...
"You" did really well at planning in the run up to the referendum. How much planning did "you" do for a Leave result? How much positivity were "you" shouting about during campaigning? How much planning did the Remain proponent in charge (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "we") do when the result was announced?It isn't that as a Remainer, I and many like me, believe the Sun shines out of the EU's backside and they can do no wrong, far from it, we want to squeeze them for the best deal we can get for the UK - continuously. We appreciate the flaws and the concerns however before we leap, we stubbornly insist upon a Plan we could get behind for the long-haul and at least a decent mini-bar in the lifeboat for the short-term, if nothing else.
...
May is turning this into a s
t show. But please don't sit there on your Portuguese veranda supping a Castle thinking "you" are in any position to preach about plans 
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