Alfie's Army

Author
Discussion

Sa Calobra

37,116 posts

211 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
esxste said:
Anyone who's ever been in a similar situation as Alfie's parents and family should struggle to blame them for grasping at any desperate hope.

You are utterly powerless, save for hoping beyond the limits of hope that your loved one recovers.

It is the snake oil salesman turned vultures of despair offering empty promises and false hopes that deserve our judgement.
100% but the Italian treatment wasn't to cure or improve just to keep alive.

Wobbegong

15,077 posts

169 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
Europa1 said:
I do wish media outlets would be more careful with their language: over the last couple of days I have heard a few refer to the child being taken overseas for "treatment", which implies some sense of possible improvement, as opposed to continuing the status quo.
yes

It’s one of the reasons I was a bit miffed as to why he wasn’t allowed to go. I’m not sure whether it’s the media trying to stir up trouble, or because journalists are not as good as they once were.

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

152 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
I have just read up properly about what is going on.

Alfie is a victim here. But the hospital and the judge are not the perpatrators of the crime.

I cannot figure out whether the people in 'Alfie's army' are thick or selfish or both. His father is certainly both.

The principal basis of objection I have seen is that people 'would do anything for their kids and keep fighting' - given the situation they are either in denial, or are more preoccupied with their own impression of themselves as a parent, or how others see them as a parent.

The actual welfare of the child seems to be coming a distant second.

The reasoning that whole panels of Doctors and judges are doing it to deliberately kill a child that can viably be saved is thoroughly demented.

Yet people are buying in. I bloody hate people

FN2TypeR

7,091 posts

93 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
Vocal Minority said:
I have just read up properly about what is going on.

Alfie is a victim here. But the hospital and the judge are not the perpatrators of the crime.

I cannot figure out whether the people in 'Alfie's army' are thick or selfish or both.His father is certainly both.

The principal basis of objection I have seen is that people 'would do anything for their kids and keep fighting' - given the situation they are either in denial, or are more preoccupied with their own impression of themselves as a parent, or how others see them as a parent.

The actual welfare of the child seems to be coming a distant second.

The reasoning that whole panels of Doctors and judges are doing it to deliberately kill a child that can viably be saved is thoroughly demented.

Yet people are buying in. I bloody hate people
Both

anonymous-user

54 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
Vocal Minority said:
Yet people are buying in. I bloody hate people.
It shows the gulf in society. At one end you have the utter morons (like the types that Guardian article covers), and at the other, the rational, caring highly intelligent doctors and judges.



Jasandjules

69,869 posts

229 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
TurbosSuck said:
. How long before laws are changed to bend to the will of the perceived masses? Perhaps this has already started to happen…
Tell me again, what do you think a Democracy is?

mr_fibuli

1,109 posts

195 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
DrDeAtH said:
Simple solution:

There was 120k in the gofundme this morning....
The Nazi pug made more than that in under a week...

amusingduck

9,396 posts

136 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
TurbosSuck said:
. How long before laws are changed to bend to the will of the perceived masses? Perhaps this has already started to happen…
Tell me again, what do you think a Democracy is?
Perhaps instead, you should tell us the operative word in that quote.

begins with a P...

Sway

26,256 posts

194 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
Hayek said:
Sway said:
DrDeAtH said:
Simple solution:

Offer the parents and 'Alfies army' the child.
Say we have done all that is possible.
All yours, just sign this form to say you can't fix him, and then be on your way..
No legal recourse, nothing.

There was 120k in the gofundme this morning....


I understand this view is highly unpopular, so don't bother flaming me.
Not going to 'flame you' - however the problem with that is it enshrines the false view that a parent has 'rights' over a child, as though they are property.

Quite simply, parents don't have rights. They have a level of discretion afforded to them in how they deliver on their obligations.
It may be the false view but it's how it should be IMO.
Why do you think the desires of the parents should override the interests of the child? Or that children should effectively be the property of the parents to do with as they wish?

e30m3Mark

16,205 posts

173 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
Just had a brief scan of the ITV This Morning FaceBook page, after they had a couple of doctors give their perspective earlier today. My goodness, there are some absolute cretins out there! Some of the conspiracy theories really do beggar belief.

KTF

9,804 posts

150 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
e30m3Mark said:
Just had a brief scan of the ITV This Morning FaceBook page, after they had a couple of doctors give their perspective earlier today. My goodness, there are some absolute cretins out there! Some of the conspiracy theories really do beggar belief.
The comments are something else. My favourite was that they are going to give him a lethal injection at 1200 on Monday.

esxste

3,676 posts

106 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
Sa Calobra said:
100% but the Italian treatment wasn't to cure or improve just to keep alive.
Forgive any confusion... but I include them in the snake oil salesman bit.

They are/were offering false hope.

andy_s

19,400 posts

259 months

Friday 27th April 2018
quotequote all
mr_fibuli said:
DrDeAtH said:
Simple solution:

There was 120k in the gofundme this morning....
The Nazi pug made more than that in under a week...
About 24hrs I think!

CharlieH89

9,079 posts

165 months

Saturday 28th April 2018
quotequote all
Alfie Evans passed away at 0230 this morning.

SydneyBridge

8,570 posts

158 months

Saturday 28th April 2018
quotequote all
RIP poor lad

Dibble

12,931 posts

240 months

Saturday 28th April 2018
quotequote all
CharlieH89 said:
Alfie Evans passed away at 0230 this morning.
Which of course, won’t be the end of it. I hope his family get the chance to grieve in peace, but I rather suspect not.

anonymous-user

54 months

Saturday 28th April 2018
quotequote all
Dibble said:
CharlieH89 said:
Alfie Evans passed away at 0230 this morning.
Which of course, won’t be the end of it. I hope his family get the chance to grieve in peace, but I rather suspect not.
I think they’ll get it if they want it.

HTP99

22,531 posts

140 months

Saturday 28th April 2018
quotequote all
Dibble said:
CharlieH89 said:
Alfie Evans passed away at 0230 this morning.
Which of course, won’t be the end of it. I hope his family get the chance to grieve in peace, but I rather suspect not.
The hangers on and the religious but jobs will dissappear as quickly as they appeared, to go on to fight their next cause and I'm sure the parents will finally accept the inevitable outcome and hopefully move on (as much as one can after experiencing the death of a child).

4x4Tyke

6,506 posts

132 months

Saturday 28th April 2018
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
I think they’ll get it if they want it.
He doesn't want peace, he wants the attention.

Seems pretty similar to munchausen, living vicariously through a sick child.

Edited by 4x4Tyke on Saturday 28th April 08:27

e30m3Mark

16,205 posts

173 months

Saturday 28th April 2018
quotequote all
The Alder Hey medical team, doctors, nurses etc will be back at work again today. Doing an unenviable job trying to save the lives of children. All without an 'army' of FaceBookers proffering support at every corner!

Spare a thought for them, as after caring for the child for so long, they will most certainly be feeling sad at his passing no matter what the circumstances and events of recent days.