Multiculturalsim

[Alpinestars]

Not-The-Messiah said:

Alpinestars said:

A fairly obvious piece of research.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43784802

Quite obvious and a good example of the dangers of multiculturalism.

The article admits that people naturally tend to gravitate towards similar social in groups. And this isolation can cause issues and problems and ultimately conflict with other in groups. Its goes on to say that integration and cooperation of these groups is ideally the best opinion.

Multiculturalism is complete opposite of this its a celebration and encouragement of separate in groups.

We have always discovered and used new ideas and ways of doing things from other cultures. Its about taking the good ideas and leaving the bad ones.

That's one way of reading it.

You made an observation about the attire of Muslim women earlier. You also made a judgement that the women at the PC club shouldn't have dressed as provocatively as they did. Which is it? Should women be allowed to dress as they want or not? Which culture is right?

Which culture are you referring to in your post further up the page?

And what about the good old British obsession with getting pissed on a Saturday night - good culture or bad?

[del mar]

Alpinestars said:

And what about the good old British obsession with getting pissed on a Saturday night - good culture or bad?

Going back to my youth in a small "village/town" in the North East.

Friday night was always men going to the pubs after work.

Saturday night was for the wives.

I liked that, I knew where I stood - Friday always had more problems......

[del mar]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You will get the "dreaming of 1950's utopia" thrown at you, which may have been better or worse.

There is the assumption that change is always for the better, looking at some of the Multicultural areas of our towns and cities I am not sure it has been.

[TTwiggy]

del mar said:

You will get the "dreaming of 1950's utopia" thrown at you, which may have been better or worse.

There is the assumption that change is always for the better, looking at some of the Multicultural areas of our towns and cities I am not sure it has been.

I can't help thinking that you're confusing multiculturalism with 'ghettoisation'. When I think of multiculturalism I think of examples like Chinatown, the 'Curry Mile' and the Nottinghill Carnival. You're describing poor areas full of poor migrants who are having issues with integration. Multiculturalism is about positive influences of other cultures on that of our own.

[Hayek]

TTwiggy said:

del mar said:

You will get the "dreaming of 1950's utopia" thrown at you, which may have been better or worse.

There is the assumption that change is always for the better, looking at some of the Multicultural areas of our towns and cities I am not sure it has been.

I can't help thinking that you're confusing multiculturalism with 'ghettoisation'. When I think of multiculturalism I think of examples like Chinatown, the 'Curry Mile' and the Nottinghill Carnival. You're describing poor areas full of poor migrants who are having issues with integration. Multiculturalism is about positive influences of other cultures on that of our own.

Curry mile etc is integration, not multiculturalism.

[TTwiggy]

Hayek said:

Curry mile etc is integration, not multiculturalism.

It's really not you know. Unless you think that all of those things are inherently British?

[TooMany2cvs]

Hayek said:

Curry mile etc is integration, not multiculturalism.

Monocultural integration would have "curry mile" consisting entirely of fish and chip shops.
Multiculturalism is white British people eating curry.

[Hayek]

TTwiggy said:

Hayek said:

Curry mile etc is integration, not multiculturalism.

It's really not you know. Unless you think that all of those things are inherently British?

Eating a curry is a pretty common in the UK for people regardless of their background. It is not some distinct (requirement for multi) culture.

I believe eating battered fish comes from Portugal, but has long become common in the UK and forms part of our integrated eating culture, it's not multicultural.

[TTwiggy]

Hayek said:

TTwiggy said:

Hayek said:

Curry mile etc is integration, not multiculturalism.

It's really not you know. Unless you think that all of those things are inherently British?

Eating a curry is a pretty common in the UK for people regardless of their background. It is not some distinct (requirement for multi) culture.

I believe eating battered fish comes from Portugal, but has long become common in the UK and forms part of our integrated eating culture, it's not multicultural.

To be clear then, you think that this:




This:



and this:



Are all inherently British and not examples of multiculturalism in action?

[Hayek]

TooMany2cvs said:

Hayek said:

Curry mile etc is integration, not multiculturalism.

Monocultural integration would have "curry mile" consisting entirely of fish and chip shops.
Multiculturalism is white British people eating curry.

No, white people eating a curry is integration. Some people come here with their culture, they mostly shift towards our way of doing things, we move a bit towards the things they do that we like (eating curry), and mainstream integrated UK culture continues to evolve.

ETA: Things like FGM is an example of multi cultures, i.e. it's abhorrent to our culture and we don't do it.

ETA: I believe the worry curry derives from a French word, so there's some more integration for you.

Edited by Hayek on Monday 23 April 11:16

[Alpinestars]

del mar said:

Alpinestars said:

And what about the good old British obsession with getting pissed on a Saturday night - good culture or bad?

Going back to my youth in a small "village/town" in the North East.

Friday night was always men going to the pubs after work.

Saturday night was for the wives.

I liked that, I knew where I stood - Friday always had more problems......

Wow. Sounds like segregation to me. But didn't do you any harm. You've out to be a very balanced chap.

[Hayek]

TTwiggy said:

Hayek said:

TTwiggy said:

Hayek said:

Curry mile etc is integration, not multiculturalism.

It's really not you know. Unless you think that all of those things are inherently British?

Eating a curry is a pretty common in the UK for people regardless of their background. It is not some distinct (requirement for multi) culture.

I believe eating battered fish comes from Portugal, but has long become common in the UK and forms part of our integrated eating culture, it's not multicultural.

To be clear then, you think that this:




This:



and this:



Are all inherently British and not examples of multiculturalism in action?

Once it becomes normal it's no longer multi-cultures, it's integration. Spaghetti being sold in our supermarkets is also part of our integrated culture.

[Coolbanana]

del mar said:

You will get the "dreaming of 1950's utopia" thrown at you, which may have been better or worse.

There is the assumption that change is always for the better, looking at some of the Multicultural areas of our towns and cities I am not sure it has been.

It takes all sorts

Providing you do not resort to violent means to express your preferences and to enforce your bigotry and xenophobia, then having a different viewpoint is perfectly fine.

You are clearly more 'Alf Garnett' than an enlightened, tolerant individual who embraces difference, but that is your right. While you may consider certain individuals - or Cultures - as deplorable, unskilled, uneducated, the same might be cast in your direction too by those who have achieved more with similar advantages growing up.

Still, you have the right to campaign for Change if you do not like something, it is a Democracy, after all. Personally, I disagree with you, I oppose your viewpoint and challenge your statistics as mere thinly-veiled Fascist Propaganda; hugely magnified to make it seem far more significant than it really is by scared, insecure people who struggle with evolution within their own Country and want an insular, inward-looking Society, devolved from the rest of the World.

If you want the UK to degenerate to your ideals then by all means, vote for that. Hopefully, it'll never come to pass, but who knows, hey?

[TTwiggy]

Hayek said:

Once it becomes normal it's no longer multi-cultures, it's integration. Spaghetti being sold in our supermarkets is also part of our integrated culture.

And the Notting Hill Carnival? China Town? Pretty much all of our music since 1957? Just because you've somehow chosen to redefine the word it doesn't stop these things being examples of multiculturalism in action.

[Hayek]

TTwiggy said:

Hayek said:

Once it becomes normal it's no longer multi-cultures, it's integration. Spaghetti being sold in our supermarkets is also part of our integrated culture.

And the Notting Hill Carnival? China Town? Pretty much all of our music since 1957? Just because you've somehow chosen to redefine the word it doesn't stop these things being examples of multiculturalism in action.

I think something like China town is still multi-cultural because going there is not something most people in the UK have experienced. Having a chinese takeaway however is pretty mainstream culture in the UK. The edges are grey but the key thing is that multi means many. If you're white/British and enjoying a curry is something you're familiar with then it's part of your culture.

[Hayek]

Hayek said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Hayek said:

Curry mile etc is integration, not multiculturalism.

Monocultural integration would have "curry mile" consisting entirely of fish and chip shops.
Multiculturalism is white British people eating curry.

No, white people eating a curry is integration. Some people come here with their culture, they mostly shift towards our way of doing things, we move a bit towards the things they do that we like (eating curry), and mainstream integrated UK culture continues to evolve.

ETA: Things like FGM is an example of multi cultures, i.e. it's abhorrent to our culture and we don't do it.

ETA: I believe the worry curry derives from a French word, so there's some more integration for you.

I believe it might be the case that the nations favourite curry is a dish specially created for the UK market and not something even eaten in India: further underlining that having a curry is part of an integrated British culture, not multi cultures.

[TTwiggy]

Hayek said:

I believe it might be the case that the nations favourite curry is a dish specially created for the UK market and not something even eaten in India: further underlining that having a curry is part of an integrated British culture, not multi cultures.

But you ARE describing multiculturalism there. People from a place where the food was exotic (to 1960s British tastes) adapted their cuisine to suit the local palette - their 'culture' mixed with our 'culture', hence 'multiculture'.

I realise that the nature of NP&E is to conflate ideas of mulitculture with Tony Blair and 1997 (the year it ALL WENT BAD), but you don't get to select the bad things and label them 'multiculture' and all the good things 'integration'. It doesn't work that way.

[Hayek]

TTwiggy said:

Hayek said:

I believe it might be the case that the nations favourite curry is a dish specially created for the UK market and not something even eaten in India: further underlining that having a curry is part of an integrated British culture, not multi cultures.

But you ARE describing multiculturalism there. People from a place where the food was exotic (to 1960s British tastes) adapted their cuisine to suit the local palette - their 'culture' mixed with our 'culture', hence 'multiculture'.

I realise that the nature of NP&E is to conflate ideas of mulitculture with Tony Blair and 1997 (the year it ALL WENT BAD), but you don't get to select the bad things and label them 'multiculture' and all the good things 'integration'. It doesn't work that way.

It does work that way because unsurprisingly all the good things get adopted, all the bad things stay distinct (i.e. multi, do you know what the word multi means?).

ETA: Having a curry was not integration for my grandparents generation, many of whom were suspicious of pasta! Drinking tea comes from China, I'm guessing this practice is multiculturalism and not British in your book?

Edited by Hayek on Monday 23 April 11:42

[TTwiggy]

Hayek said:

It does work that way because unsurprisingly all the good things get adopted, all the bad things stay distinct (i.e. multi, do you know what the word multi means?).

Yes. I'm unsure that you do however.

[captain_cynic]

Hayek said:

TTwiggy said:

del mar said:

You will get the "dreaming of 1950's utopia" thrown at you, which may have been better or worse.

There is the assumption that change is always for the better, looking at some of the Multicultural areas of our towns and cities I am not sure it has been.

I can't help thinking that you're confusing multiculturalism with 'ghettoisation'. When I think of multiculturalism I think of examples like Chinatown, the 'Curry Mile' and the Nottinghill Carnival. You're describing poor areas full of poor migrants who are having issues with integration. Multiculturalism is about positive influences of other cultures on that of our own.

Curry mile etc is integration, not multiculturalism.

And such integration is the end game of multiculturalism. The UK promotes a society where such things are not just possible, but commonplace.