Thwaites Brewery trashed by travellers
Discussion
Rovinghawk said:
Greendubber said:
You'd be happy with no response to your burglary? I f&cking doubt it.
Damn right. I was being sarcastic- the point I was making was far from subtle. I could try & explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.Greendubber said:
I seem to recall a thread about you wanting the police to deal with a neighbours kid pouring a soft drink on your car?
Actually it was the culmination of a long series of ASB, mainly against the more elderly neighours.In that instance the local police were great- they actually got off their rear ends & did something, in sharp contrast to the parade of ineffectuality shown at Thwaites brewery and the excuses for doing sod all that the apologists are making.
ts turning up you'd have had zero response from the police to deal with your neighbours children which I'm sure you'd have been quick to froth about on here.You're also comparing dealing with a rowdy neighbour to 100 angry travellers. So as previously mentioned the police don't have the resources to deal with them.
Not excuses, it's fact.
Perhaps rather than silly sarcastic posts on here you could pen a letter to your local MP and the home sec asking about police cuts and complain about the lack of available police resources. It would be a far more productive use of your time.
La Liga said:
Had there been a fair bit of notice 100 travellers were coming to cause damage to a location then suitable plans could also be made and contingencies put in place.
With my tongue firmly in my cheek, are you saying the Police need written notice of skulduggery to enable them to act now?I really get the pleadings over resources and the effects of years of budget cuts. However, I suspect the Great British Public, all those who dutifully pay Income Tax, VAT, NI, Council Tax, VED, carry insurance, use the correct shade of diesel are getting a bit weary.
Greendubber said:
the lack of available police resources.
They're busy in the Algarve & in camera vans. I doubt very much they'd give that up to try & nick a few traveller types.I knew it wouldn't be the police's fault and could reasonably suspect it was due to budgetary constraints or political interference or something else (anything else).
55palfers said:
La Liga said:
Had there been a fair bit of notice 100 travellers were coming to cause damage to a location then suitable plans could also be made and contingencies put in place.
With my tongue firmly in my cheek, are you saying the Police need written notice of skulduggery to enable them to act now?I really get the pleadings over resources and the effects of years of budget cuts. However, I suspect the Great British Public, all those who dutifully pay Income Tax, VAT, NI, Council Tax, VED, carry insurance, use the correct shade of diesel are getting a bit weary.
The issue here is it's spontaneous, so no luxury of getting extra staff in. You're stuck with what you have on duty at that time whilst also trying to manage everything else that needs the police to attend.
I seem it from both sides, as a member of the public it upsets me but it bothers me more at work hearing jobs on the radio going unanswered, having to let
fkers carry on taking the piss because we can't deal with them. It makes bobbies toes curl being unable to deal with it which is why the suggestions by some here that they're not interested is so wrong. They couldn't be further from the truth.Edited by Greendubber on Wednesday 30th May 21:47
Rovinghawk said:
Greendubber said:
the lack of available police resources.
They're busy in the Algarve & in camera vans. I doubt very much they'd give that up to try & nick a few traveller types.I knew it wouldn't be the police's fault and could reasonably suspect it was due to budgetary constraints or political interference or something else (anything else).
Greendubber said:
I'm sorry you can't accept fact.
Fact- plenty of police have gone to the Algarve during main holiday season to investigate something outside their legal jurisdiction.Fact- police officers have sat in camera vans protecting society from the perils of those exceeding posted speed limits.
Fact- Thwaites brewery haven't seen anything good.
Rovinghawk said:
Greendubber said:
I'm sorry you can't accept fact.
Fact- plenty of police have gone tio the Algarve during main holiday season to investigate something outside their legal jurisdiction.Fact- police officers have sat in camera vans protecting society from the perils of those exceeding posted speed limits.
Fact- Thwaites brewery haven't seen anything good.
Fact - the majority of speed vans are staffed civilians so utterly pointless to suggest they'd have been any use in this situation.
Fact - Lancashire police didn't have enough staff to deal with the travellers. It's not down to Madeline or speed camera vans.
Frank7 said:
markcoznottz said:
Well it's effectively looting so just shoot 5 at random, should stop any future problems....
While your suggestion is not without some merit, can you imagine the screams from the likes of Chakrabarti, Corbyn, and Galloway?
RichB said:
55palfers said:
Police managed to arrest 130 (probably mainly law abiding) cyclists - how was that managed?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-190231...
There just no will to deal with the problem.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-190231...
There just no will to deal with the problem.
bet you won't get an answer to that.Bet you wish you'd read a bit further before posting, would have saved you having to edit
The police on here can make excuses until they are blue in the face, but the fact remains their actions with regards to this element of society are simply not good enough. Not even close.
The police are letting thes take the piss out them, so they shouldn't be surprised when the public do too.
The police are letting the
s take the piss out them, so they shouldn't be surprised when the public do too.I for one am shocked.
Shocked at the vitriol and bile directed at the travellers. I know that there are some bad apples but the hatred.
What makes it so much worse is to think how easily we forget.
We forget the persecution these people ,these Irish travellers have suffered. We forget the way they were treated in the war. When Hitler invaded Ireland and set up concentration camps who was it he persecuted - that's right these poor Irish travellers. The gestapo would gleefully seek a rubber stamped court order and take the local panzer division onto one of the campsites and round them up.
It must have been horrific trying to run a barricade to escape. Knowing that your Shogun couldn't hope to outrun a Tiger tank
We forget how easily all of us could easily be in these peoples shoes. If your Mother was Irish and married her cousin you could be a traveller. Its just a matter of chance that you are not.
Then there is the "I'm all right Jack" attitude expressed so menacingly on here. The idea that because you go out to work, pay for things, pay Tax and NI automatically gives you rights over those who don't is deplorable.
Just because you choose to lock your possessions away in sheds and garages doesn't mean that you should deny someone else the chance to use them.
I am often shocked at the right wing rhetoric freely expressed on here. The persecution and hatred shown towards these brave people is a new low in my opinion
Shocked at the vitriol and bile directed at the travellers. I know that there are some bad apples but the hatred.
What makes it so much worse is to think how easily we forget.
We forget the persecution these people ,these Irish travellers have suffered. We forget the way they were treated in the war. When Hitler invaded Ireland and set up concentration camps who was it he persecuted - that's right these poor Irish travellers. The gestapo would gleefully seek a rubber stamped court order and take the local panzer division onto one of the campsites and round them up.
It must have been horrific trying to run a barricade to escape. Knowing that your Shogun couldn't hope to outrun a Tiger tank
We forget how easily all of us could easily be in these peoples shoes. If your Mother was Irish and married her cousin you could be a traveller. Its just a matter of chance that you are not.
Then there is the "I'm all right Jack" attitude expressed so menacingly on here. The idea that because you go out to work, pay for things, pay Tax and NI automatically gives you rights over those who don't is deplorable.
Just because you choose to lock your possessions away in sheds and garages doesn't mean that you should deny someone else the chance to use them.
I am often shocked at the right wing rhetoric freely expressed on here. The persecution and hatred shown towards these brave people is a new low in my opinion
La Liga said:
ou're not playing devil's advocate, you suggested a force with fewer than 3000 regular officers (with its relative infrastructure) arrest and process 100 people on a bank holiday weekend.
It's a ridiculous suggestion as I am sure you know.
It's not ridiculous at all...It's a ridiculous suggestion as I am sure you know.
It's called enforcing the law, regardless of the circumstances.
This will earn the force respect from public and criminals alike.
2BToo - as has already been said, this will be a “reactive” investigation. I’d hope that efforts were made to identify all those present, but of course, it depends at what point the police were made aware. Those responsible for the damage may have already left prior to police knowledge, let alone attendance.
Don’t get me wrong, the damage caused was completely unacceptable. I always find criminal damage a strange one. I just don’t “get” it. Theft or assault, I can sort of understand, but not damage. And this damage seems to have been particularly malicious.
I’d guess there will be a dedicated investigation team set up to look into this. Which of course means, they won’t be doing their day jobs, so everything else gets put on the back burner, meaning the victims of those crimes will have to wait longer for resolution. It’s not like on tv either, it will probably be a DS and maybe, if you’re lucky, half a dozen DCs.
A quick Google shows Lancashire has 2,910 Police officers. As per Greendubber, custody offices are frequently full to capacity, especially over a sunny bank holiday weekend with a pay day thrown in. If it’s the actual bank holiday, staffing is down to minimum operating levels. Of those 2,910, they aren’t all on duty, 24/7. Some will be on leave, some off sick, some away training, some on rest days, some diverted to court. Not all of those on duty will be able to respond and sending officers across the force denudes cover elsewhere. Good luck with getting neighbouring forces to send officers or accommodate detainees over a busy bank holiday weekend. Most forces work a five shift system for response, so 80% of response officers aren’t on duty at once. You might get shift overlap, but that’s 2-3 hours at each end of a shift, possibly.
Bigends (IMHO) isn’t playing “Devil’s Advocate”, he’s just being a weapons grade cock. He knows exactly why 100 people weren’t arrested, but no doubt about n his day he’d have singlehandedly had it sorted out before refs and back to base for tea and medals. What one might refer to as a “Tommy Two sts”, a “Topper” or an “Elevenerifer”. I’m no wet behind the ears probationer, I’ve got almost 22 years in and he’s talking utter bks, as he so frequently does.
Comparing this spontaneous incident to a preplanned incident at a highly resourced, preplanned event at possibly the largest Policing operation this country has ever seen, involving not only the biggest force in the UK but officers on mutual aide from across the country is like comparing apples and things that are the complete opposite of apples.
I’ve no idea how many officers are still on the Madeleine McCann enquiry. I’ve no idea why there is a special operation, somewhere ne, somewhere has made a decision. Most camera vans ar now staffed by police staff rather than police officers, wh9 have a very narrow remit. They can’t be used for other investigative roles. Yes, targeting speeders is easy, in as much that you look at a vehicle, form an opinion it’s speeding and ping it with the laser. There are plenty of more complex offences that are investigated but don’t result in conviction.
Logistically, arresting, transporting, housing and interviewing 100 people at once in response to a spontaneous incident in a force of under 3,000 officers is extremely unlikely to ever happen. You or I may not like it, but that’s the reality. It’s nothing to do with officers being lazy or scared, it’s nothing to do with travellers being immune and it’s nothing to do with it being “too hard”.
Don’t get me wrong, the damage caused was completely unacceptable. I always find criminal damage a strange one. I just don’t “get” it. Theft or assault, I can sort of understand, but not damage. And this damage seems to have been particularly malicious.
I’d guess there will be a dedicated investigation team set up to look into this. Which of course means, they won’t be doing their day jobs, so everything else gets put on the back burner, meaning the victims of those crimes will have to wait longer for resolution. It’s not like on tv either, it will probably be a DS and maybe, if you’re lucky, half a dozen DCs.
A quick Google shows Lancashire has 2,910 Police officers. As per Greendubber, custody offices are frequently full to capacity, especially over a sunny bank holiday weekend with a pay day thrown in. If it’s the actual bank holiday, staffing is down to minimum operating levels. Of those 2,910, they aren’t all on duty, 24/7. Some will be on leave, some off sick, some away training, some on rest days, some diverted to court. Not all of those on duty will be able to respond and sending officers across the force denudes cover elsewhere. Good luck with getting neighbouring forces to send officers or accommodate detainees over a busy bank holiday weekend. Most forces work a five shift system for response, so 80% of response officers aren’t on duty at once. You might get shift overlap, but that’s 2-3 hours at each end of a shift, possibly.
Bigends (IMHO) isn’t playing “Devil’s Advocate”, he’s just being a weapons grade cock. He knows exactly why 100 people weren’t arrested, but no doubt about n his day he’d have singlehandedly had it sorted out before refs and back to base for tea and medals. What one might refer to as a “Tommy Two s
ts”, a “Topper” or an “Elevenerifer”. I’m no wet behind the ears probationer, I’ve got almost 22 years in and he’s talking utter bks, as he so frequently does.Comparing this spontaneous incident to a preplanned incident at a highly resourced, preplanned event at possibly the largest Policing operation this country has ever seen, involving not only the biggest force in the UK but officers on mutual aide from across the country is like comparing apples and things that are the complete opposite of apples.
I’ve no idea how many officers are still on the Madeleine McCann enquiry. I’ve no idea why there is a special operation, somewhere ne, somewhere has made a decision. Most camera vans ar now staffed by police staff rather than police officers, wh9 have a very narrow remit. They can’t be used for other investigative roles. Yes, targeting speeders is easy, in as much that you look at a vehicle, form an opinion it’s speeding and ping it with the laser. There are plenty of more complex offences that are investigated but don’t result in conviction.
Logistically, arresting, transporting, housing and interviewing 100 people at once in response to a spontaneous incident in a force of under 3,000 officers is extremely unlikely to ever happen. You or I may not like it, but that’s the reality. It’s nothing to do with officers being lazy or scared, it’s nothing to do with travellers being immune and it’s nothing to do with it being “too hard”.
Greendubber said:
Fact - Thwaites brewery in Blackburn - Lancashire last time I checked. Educate me how many staff they've sent to Portugal?
My point was that the police seem to have their priorities wrong- holiday season on the Algarve vs dealing with scummy gits anywhere in UK.Greendubber said:
Fact - the majority of speed vans are staffed civilians
And the rest by police- safe, easy, profitable and seemingly prioritised.Greendubber said:
Fact - Lancashire police didn't have enough staff to deal with the travellers. It's not down to Madeline or speed camera vans.
So we/they give up on enforcing the law on certain groups because it's too difficult, instead preferring to target those who are mostly law-abiding but stray outside the lines sometimes.If you think that Lancs police & any others are doing a decent job regarding travellers then I'll respect the right to your beliefs, the same as I respect religionists' rights to their beliefs.
Edited by Rovinghawk on Wednesday 30th May 22:23
Greendubber said:
RichB said:
55palfers said:
Police managed to arrest 130 (probably mainly law abiding) cyclists - how was that managed?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-190231...
There just no will to deal with the problem.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-190231...
There just no will to deal with the problem.
bet you won't get an answer to that.
Too old and jaundiced... We all know the s are above the law so the police can't be bothered to arrest them. Waste of police time... The public are sick of them and I'm sure the police are sick of them but nothing will change. Dibble said:
targeting speeders ........ you look at a vehicle, form an opinion it’s speeding and ping it with the laser.
So they never zap everything first & form opinions later? Right.Dibble said:
It’s nothing to do with officers being lazy or scared, it’s nothing to do with travellers being immune and it’s nothing to do with it being “too hard”.
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