45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 5)
Discussion
mygoldfishbowl said:
avinalarf said:
They didn't vote for Trump....they would have voted for a goat if it vocalised and legitimised their fears and prejudices.
Trump or that goat offered them hope, albeit a false hope, ...a land where they they could blame ALL immigrants for taking their jobs...a land where they could blame ALL blacks for their misfortunes.....a land where ALL Jews were evil bankers that stole their birthright.
Does it remind you of something and somewhere ?
Evil lurks only just below the surface and will take advantage of a vacuum, an absence perceived or real, of a democratic leadership that offers no hope to an ignored and hopeless and dissallusioned electorate that finds itself cast adrift.
Of course there are also the true racists, homophobes and haters who must think all their Christmases have come.
Trump is a symptom of today's political establishment.
A political establishment that believes in its own stories that speaks only to itself, that is arrogant and self serving and does not address the fears and concerns of a confused,
disoriented and hopeless considerable minority of the population.
If the establishment had listened and tried to understand and gone some way to talk to and not ignore and/or patronise those disaffected people we may well not have had Brexit or Trump or the rise of populism.
Make no mistake, we have opened Pandora's box, let us hope the consequences are not as tragic as they might become.
Utter rubbish. Trump or that goat offered them hope, albeit a false hope, ...a land where they they could blame ALL immigrants for taking their jobs...a land where they could blame ALL blacks for their misfortunes.....a land where ALL Jews were evil bankers that stole their birthright.
Does it remind you of something and somewhere ?
Evil lurks only just below the surface and will take advantage of a vacuum, an absence perceived or real, of a democratic leadership that offers no hope to an ignored and hopeless and dissallusioned electorate that finds itself cast adrift.
Of course there are also the true racists, homophobes and haters who must think all their Christmases have come.
Trump is a symptom of today's political establishment.
A political establishment that believes in its own stories that speaks only to itself, that is arrogant and self serving and does not address the fears and concerns of a confused,
disoriented and hopeless considerable minority of the population.
If the establishment had listened and tried to understand and gone some way to talk to and not ignore and/or patronise those disaffected people we may well not have had Brexit or Trump or the rise of populism.
Make no mistake, we have opened Pandora's box, let us hope the consequences are not as tragic as they might become.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This is not a right or left thing.You can vote either way and be a respectable human being.
Neither the right or left has a monopoly on truth and justice.
It is at the extremes of right or left, opposite sides of the same coin, that is the enemy of the people.
Those extremes manifest themselves when people are pushed into a corner, like rats in a cage, their primal instincts surface and common sense and decency morph into fear and hatred.
PWeston said:
Indeed. I’m particularly curious about this supposed blaming of blacks. What for exactly?
An easy target for lazy generalisations.People look for a scapegoat to blame for their misfortune.....they always have and probably always will.
Nowadays you could substitute Muslims,Jews,Mexicans or anybody else that you care to scapegoat.
Thing is....most of humanity just wants to get through their day with enough to feed their family
and so forth.
BUT if any of those that are scapegoated get pushed too far then they themselves will resort to violence and extremes, they will acquiesce to the extreme views of fundamentalists and radicals, they will close ranks and then they really do become an enemy.
We are,by nature, tribal and nowadays that tribalism manifests itself in many disparate ways.
Your race, your religion, your country, your football club, or as this is PH the car you drive.
It would help if our frailties were acknowledged, if people would admit that within their tribe their were bad people that did bad things and not try to excuse the wrongdoers.
Some excuses, based on historical events and justifiable grievances, bear consideration and sympathy but if we are to go forward as a society we must learn from our history and not continually repeat the same mistakes.
avinalarf said:
An easy target for lazy generalisations.
People look for a scapegoat to blame for their misfortune.....they always have and probably always will.
Nowadays you could substitute Muslims,Jews,Mexicans or anybody else that you care to scapegoat.
Thing is....most of humanity just wants to get through their day with enough to feed their family
and so forth.
BUT if any of those that are scapegoated get pushed too far then they themselves will resort to violence and extremes, they will acquiesce to the extreme views of fundamentalists and radicals, they will close ranks and then they really do become an enemy.
We are,by nature, tribal and nowadays that tribalism manifests itself in many disparate ways.
Your race, your religion, your country, your football club, or as this is PH the car you drive.
It would help if our frailties were acknowledged, if people would admit that within their tribe their were bad people that did bad things and not try to excuse the wrongdoers.
Some excuses, based on historical events and justifiable grievances, bear consideration and sympathy but if we are to go forward as a society we must learn from our history and not continually repeat the same mistakes.
Good post. People look for a scapegoat to blame for their misfortune.....they always have and probably always will.
Nowadays you could substitute Muslims,Jews,Mexicans or anybody else that you care to scapegoat.
Thing is....most of humanity just wants to get through their day with enough to feed their family
and so forth.
BUT if any of those that are scapegoated get pushed too far then they themselves will resort to violence and extremes, they will acquiesce to the extreme views of fundamentalists and radicals, they will close ranks and then they really do become an enemy.
We are,by nature, tribal and nowadays that tribalism manifests itself in many disparate ways.
Your race, your religion, your country, your football club, or as this is PH the car you drive.
It would help if our frailties were acknowledged, if people would admit that within their tribe their were bad people that did bad things and not try to excuse the wrongdoers.
Some excuses, based on historical events and justifiable grievances, bear consideration and sympathy but if we are to go forward as a society we must learn from our history and not continually repeat the same mistakes.
avinalarf said:
This is not a right or left thing.
You can vote either way and be a respectable human being.
Neither the right or left has a monopoly on truth and justice.
It is at the extremes of right or left, opposite sides of the same coin, that is the enemy of the people.
Those extremes manifest themselves when people are pushed into a corner, like rats in a cage, their primal instincts surface and common sense and decency morph into fear and hatred.
Yep and it's not a new thing either, in 1919 Yeats wrote:You can vote either way and be a respectable human being.
Neither the right or left has a monopoly on truth and justice.
It is at the extremes of right or left, opposite sides of the same coin, that is the enemy of the people.
Those extremes manifest themselves when people are pushed into a corner, like rats in a cage, their primal instincts surface and common sense and decency morph into fear and hatred.
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
The centre ground has failed to adapt to the 21st century so it is not holding. Politicians can not behave in the way they used to in a world of instant fact checking, powerful foreign media influences and viral memes. How much of the UK's sub 20% trust in a politician's ability to tell the truth is attributable to RT, Twitter and Facebook I don't know, however I do know that politicians have done sweet FA about the problem and it's only going to get worse until they act.
One idea would be a public perjury law for misleading the public, preferably with the same harsh punishments as perjuring a court. That would sharpen a few minds.
avinalarf said:
An easy target for lazy generalisations.
People look for a scapegoat to blame for their misfortune.....they always have and probably always will.
Nowadays you could substitute Muslims,Jews,Mexicans or anybody else that you care to scapegoat.
Thing is....most of humanity just wants to get through their day with enough to feed their family
and so forth.
BUT if any of those that are scapegoated get pushed too far then they themselves will resort to violence and extremes, they will acquiesce to the extreme views of fundamentalists and radicals, they will close ranks and then they really do become an enemy.
We are,by nature, tribal and nowadays that tribalism manifests itself in many disparate ways.
Your race, your religion, your country, your football club, or as this is PH the car you drive.
It would help if our frailties were acknowledged, if people would admit that within their tribe their were bad people that did bad things and not try to excuse the wrongdoers.
Some excuses, based on historical events and justifiable grievances, bear consideration and sympathy but if we are to go forward as a society we must learn from our history and not continually repeat the same mistakes.
I still fail to understand your insinuation that President Trump encourages people to blame blacks for their misfortunes. I find the whole racism narrative pushed by the media (which you’ve seemingly fallen for) with regard to Trump being supposedly anti-black frustratingly lacking in any evidence. Please produce evidence Trump is anti-black.People look for a scapegoat to blame for their misfortune.....they always have and probably always will.
Nowadays you could substitute Muslims,Jews,Mexicans or anybody else that you care to scapegoat.
Thing is....most of humanity just wants to get through their day with enough to feed their family
and so forth.
BUT if any of those that are scapegoated get pushed too far then they themselves will resort to violence and extremes, they will acquiesce to the extreme views of fundamentalists and radicals, they will close ranks and then they really do become an enemy.
We are,by nature, tribal and nowadays that tribalism manifests itself in many disparate ways.
Your race, your religion, your country, your football club, or as this is PH the car you drive.
It would help if our frailties were acknowledged, if people would admit that within their tribe their were bad people that did bad things and not try to excuse the wrongdoers.
Some excuses, based on historical events and justifiable grievances, bear consideration and sympathy but if we are to go forward as a society we must learn from our history and not continually repeat the same mistakes.
Overall I really have no idea what your point is. Who is Trump scapegoating who you think is in danger of resorting to “violence and extremes”?
PWeston said:
I still fail to understand your insinuation that President Trump encourages people to blame blacks for their misfortunes. I find the whole racism narrative pushed by the media (which you’ve seemingly fallen for) with regard to Trump being supposedly anti-black frustratingly lacking in any evidence. Please produce evidence Trump is anti-black.
Overall I really have no idea what your point is. Who is Trump scapegoating who you think is in danger of resorting to “violence and extremes”?
He did seem to be supporting David Duke at one point.Overall I really have no idea what your point is. Who is Trump scapegoating who you think is in danger of resorting to “violence and extremes”?
PWeston said:
I still fail to understand your insinuation that President Trump encourages people to blame blacks for their misfortunes. I find the whole racism narrative pushed by the media (which you’ve seemingly fallen for) with regard to Trump being supposedly anti-black frustratingly lacking in any evidence. Please produce evidence Trump is anti-black.
Overall I really have no idea what your point is. Who is Trump scapegoating who you think is in danger of resorting to “violence and extremes”?
There you go - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+donald+trump+a+racist%3FOverall I really have no idea what your point is. Who is Trump scapegoating who you think is in danger of resorting to “violence and extremes”?
Probably near the top of the results from that lmgtfy link is a wiki page titled Racial views of Donald Trump, as I'm feeling generous here's a link to that page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Dona...
Carl_Manchester said:
I had a go at answering some of this previously on the forum however as the sands have shifted slightly its worth me re-typing it back in.
There are a couple of geo-political issues at play here and go back to parts of Bannons strategy which was laid out and also things that have transpired since.
The first main issue is the easier one out of the two.
Trump won’t say this publically but the USA is turning into a military state, it simply cannot afford to keep spending 12-14.5% (by some measurements) of it’s income on military spending. Politically Trump can not find a way of reducing this spend without a) dealing with NATO i.e getting the social-democratic countries
to realise that they need to spend less on their welfare bills and more on military hardware b) getting Putin around the table to agree a renewal of very old declarations (going back to Gorby days) of nuclear stockpile and general military reduction. The clock is ticking on these agreements and Trump sees a window of opportunity now to get a deal done.
The democrats see this strategy and are countering it with phoney arguments in order to tie trumps hands on the matter. Trump wants to spend the saved money on infrastructure and tax cuts.
The second thing that is at play here is the previously disscused narrative that without the petro-dollar, the USA is essentially broke.
If you look back, most of the disquiet on the U.S side started when China launched its own rival to the petro-dollar. e.g you could buy oil and gas contracts on the global market using Yuan instead of U.S dollars.
The americans moved swiftly to shore up base support for the petrodollar by negotiating with the Saudis. This was Confusing to joe public but essential to the continuation of the USA as we know it.
As the Saudi/USA partnership got renewed and the Aramco deal parked to stop the Chinese getting hold of it, they turned their attentions to Iran whom had already started selling their oil via China using Yuan and we know what happened to Iran shortly after.
That then leaves the sticky mattter of the remaining gas, oil exporters such as Russia and dealing with the Chinese themselves whom threaten the USAs very existence not via plastic kids toys but via threatening to shift the world away from the U.S dollar.
The main issue for example, regarding the Germans buying Gas from Russia is not that it’s from Russia per se, it’s the fact that they need to be buying the gas in U.S dollars, just like good old blighty buys gas from Qatar using U.S dollars.
This potential global shift has the U.S spooked and it’s gonna be a fun watch to see how this all plays out. Just to clarify though, it is the U.S government which is spooked on this petrodollar issue - Trump is just playing his out of control card because it’s the role he knows how to best play.
Make no mistake if Clinton was in the white house these two big issues would still need to be played out as there are bigger things at stake right now than just party politics in Washington.
That doesn't really address what is good about Trump. For a start any failure to get things done is entirely down the Trump as the Republicans control both houses.There are a couple of geo-political issues at play here and go back to parts of Bannons strategy which was laid out and also things that have transpired since.
The first main issue is the easier one out of the two.
Trump won’t say this publically but the USA is turning into a military state, it simply cannot afford to keep spending 12-14.5% (by some measurements) of it’s income on military spending. Politically Trump can not find a way of reducing this spend without a) dealing with NATO i.e getting the social-democratic countries
to realise that they need to spend less on their welfare bills and more on military hardware b) getting Putin around the table to agree a renewal of very old declarations (going back to Gorby days) of nuclear stockpile and general military reduction. The clock is ticking on these agreements and Trump sees a window of opportunity now to get a deal done.
The democrats see this strategy and are countering it with phoney arguments in order to tie trumps hands on the matter. Trump wants to spend the saved money on infrastructure and tax cuts.
The second thing that is at play here is the previously disscused narrative that without the petro-dollar, the USA is essentially broke.
If you look back, most of the disquiet on the U.S side started when China launched its own rival to the petro-dollar. e.g you could buy oil and gas contracts on the global market using Yuan instead of U.S dollars.
The americans moved swiftly to shore up base support for the petrodollar by negotiating with the Saudis. This was Confusing to joe public but essential to the continuation of the USA as we know it.
As the Saudi/USA partnership got renewed and the Aramco deal parked to stop the Chinese getting hold of it, they turned their attentions to Iran whom had already started selling their oil via China using Yuan and we know what happened to Iran shortly after.
That then leaves the sticky mattter of the remaining gas, oil exporters such as Russia and dealing with the Chinese themselves whom threaten the USAs very existence not via plastic kids toys but via threatening to shift the world away from the U.S dollar.
The main issue for example, regarding the Germans buying Gas from Russia is not that it’s from Russia per se, it’s the fact that they need to be buying the gas in U.S dollars, just like good old blighty buys gas from Qatar using U.S dollars.
This potential global shift has the U.S spooked and it’s gonna be a fun watch to see how this all plays out. Just to clarify though, it is the U.S government which is spooked on this petrodollar issue - Trump is just playing his out of control card because it’s the role he knows how to best play.
Make no mistake if Clinton was in the white house these two big issues would still need to be played out as there are bigger things at stake right now than just party politics in Washington.
His "out of control card" may be the only one he knows, but it isn't achieving much.
Prolex-UK said:
If not photshopped an interesting picture
Not hard to Google. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1998-trump-peopl...
Fake press clip
Anyway I don’t buy this racial issue, it’s a diversion like others although at least it helps to alienate some voters.
The main issue is the man is just not fit to be President. He’s incapable of complex thinking, can’t grasp cause and effect, has staggering vanity and absolutely no morals and is completely motivated by self benefit.
The man is an idiot moron and to a point it’s embarrassing to watch but bloody good entertainment.
Anyway I don’t buy this racial issue, it’s a diversion like others although at least it helps to alienate some voters.
The main issue is the man is just not fit to be President. He’s incapable of complex thinking, can’t grasp cause and effect, has staggering vanity and absolutely no morals and is completely motivated by self benefit.
The man is an idiot moron and to a point it’s embarrassing to watch but bloody good entertainment.
Good article on why Trump might be afraid of Russian kompromat
https://www.newyorker.com/news-desk/swamp-chronicl...
https://www.newyorker.com/news-desk/swamp-chronicl...
Tartan Pixie said:
PWeston said:
I still fail to understand your insinuation that President Trump encourages people to blame blacks for their misfortunes. I find the whole racism narrative pushed by the media (which you’ve seemingly fallen for) with regard to Trump being supposedly anti-black frustratingly lacking in any evidence. Please produce evidence Trump is anti-black.
Overall I really have no idea what your point is. Who is Trump scapegoating who you think is in danger of resorting to “violence and extremes”?
There you go - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+donald+trump+a+racist%3FOverall I really have no idea what your point is. Who is Trump scapegoating who you think is in danger of resorting to “violence and extremes”?
Probably near the top of the results from that lmgtfy link is a wiki page titled Racial views of Donald Trump, as I'm feeling generous here's a link to that page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Dona...
The author’s “argument” seems to be that because Trump disapproves of mass migration into Europe and sees it as a threat to European culture that he is thus some terrible racist. Is that REALLY where the bar is for racism now?
As for linking me wikipedia...have a
on me.Do you understand the difference between actual evidence vs some opinion piece or an editable wikipedia article?
The FBI have released the Carter Page Fisa documents, proving everything Nunes said was a lie, aimed at trying to protect trump and that Schiff was telling the truth. The FBI was totally transparent with the FISA court about Fusion and Christopher Steele and the funding and motivation Steele. a 412 page document completely laying out the case against Carter Page and why he needed to be monitored
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/95-carter-...
Oh look, another of team trump knowing engaging with russia.
I'd love to know whats redacted on Page 9 about Candidate #1's campaign.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/95-carter-...
Oh look, another of team trump knowing engaging with russia.
I'd love to know whats redacted on Page 9 about Candidate #1's campaign.
Byker28i said:
The FBI have released the Carter Page Fisa documents, proving everything Nunes said was a lie, aimed at trying to protect trump and that Schiff was telling the truth. The FBI was totally transparent with the FISA court about Fusion and Christopher Steele and the funding and motivation Steele. a 412 page document completely laying out the case against Carter Page and why he needed to be monitored
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/95-carter-...
Oh look, another of team trump knowing engaging with russia.
I'd love to know whats redacted on Page 9 about Candidate #1's campaign.
So from theis document we can see that:https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/95-carter-...
Oh look, another of team trump knowing engaging with russia.
I'd love to know whats redacted on Page 9 about Candidate #1's campaign.
Page is an alleged spy for the Russian government.
Page met with the President of Rosneft, confirming another huge part of the Steele Dossier
Page sought damaging material on Hillary Clinton while in Russia from Russian inteligence Agents
trump would have been told all this, would have seen he documents - yet still shouts "NO COLLUSION". Another indication he is completely compromised by the russians.
Page must be cooperating otherwise this doc wouldn't come out and he wouldn't be in jail awaiting trial?
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