Is this the last tory government

[hidetheelephants]

Religious fundamentalism is going to keep the tory party in power? Good luck with that.

[Fittster]

NJH said:

Derek Smith said:

I doubt there will be any change. We've got Mogg and Johnson being heralded as the new faces of the tory party when it is nothing other than the same old.

JRM is at least socially conservative. For most that makes him a real conservative rather than the bulk of Conservative party MPs which really don't seem to be actual conservatives i.e. they are some form of lowish tax social democrat, social progressives and certainly not conservative in philosophical/intellectual terms. Forget Brexit for a moment, this is the big hearts and minds battle ground for the Conservative party, is it going to continue down a progressive road as favoured by Cameron and the one nation Conservatism nonsense or are they going to reflect their base a bit more by being socially conservative.

There traditional basis is dying off. Cameron recognized that and was trying to reposition they party until he got derailed by the nationalists within the party and its support.

[psi310398]

hidetheelephants said:

Religious fundamentalism is going to keep the tory party in power? Good luck with that.

No. I said social conservatism resonates with blue collar voters more than liberal Toryism does. I don't think God goes down well with anyone much in England.

[hidetheelephants]

psi310398 said:

hidetheelephants said:

Religious fundamentalism is going to keep the tory party in power? Good luck with that.

No. I said social conservatism resonates with blue collar voters more than liberal Toryism does. I don't think God goes down well with anyone much in England.

JRM is a religious fundamentalist and Boris is an amoral opportunistic libertarian; how are either of these going to sell to the social conservatives you've identified as a crucial brick in the tory vote?

[GroundEffect]

NJH said:

Derek Smith said:

I doubt there will be any change. We've got Mogg and Johnson being heralded as the new faces of the tory party when it is nothing other than the same old.

JRM is at least socially conservative. For most that makes him a real conservative rather than the bulk of Conservative party MPs which really don't seem to be actual conservatives i.e. they are some form of lowish tax social democrat, social progressives and certainly not conservative in philosophical/intellectual terms. Forget Brexit for a moment, this is the big hearts and minds battle ground for the Conservative party, is it going to continue down a progressive road as favoured by Cameron and the one nation Conservatism nonsense or are they going to reflect their base a bit more by being socially conservative.

Social conservatism is dying out. And good riddance.

[NJH]

Actually your likely wrong about that:
https://unherd.com/2019/04/how-conservatism-can-su...

It does raise a serious question, how would anyone know for sure that social conservatism is dying out other then anecdotally? There hasn't been a socially conservative party to vote for, for a long time.

[Halb]

What would a socially conservative party stand for?

[wc98]

Halb said:

What would a socially conservative party stand for?

social conservatives ?

[alfie2244]

wc98 said:

Halb said:

What would a socially conservative party stand for?

social conservatives ?

Quitters!

[psi310398]

Halb said:

What would a socially conservative party stand for?

Sharia law.

[NJH]

Halb said:

What would a socially conservative party stand for?

This article by Peter Hitchens is probably a good start:
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2010/01/...

[hidetheelephants]

NJH said:

Halb said:

What would a socially conservative party stand for?

This article by Peter Hitchens is probably a good start:
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2010/01/...

The 1950s utopian fiction party? Niche.

[psi310398]

This Labour List piece might be useful reading:

https://labourlist.org/2015/08/labour-has-to-stop-...

[Derek Smith]

NJH said:

This article by Peter Hitchens is probably a good start:
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2010/01/...

He's weird. Everything he writes comes over as bitter. I think it is something to do with him being the less well-known and less well-liked of the two brothers, and the other one upset half the world.

He starts by saying he's hated by labour, and to prove it the door was slammed in his face. It could be that they just don't like him.

He's become predictable, indeed repetitious, in his writings, so much so that he has become a caricature, and a rather grotesque version, of himself.

At least his brother, you know, the famous one, had a sense of humour.

[gregs656]

Halb said:

What would a socially conservative party stand for?

At the minimum the National Anthem, and probably when one of their old school masters entered the room.

[NJH]

Derek Smith said:

NJH said:

This article by Peter Hitchens is probably a good start:
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2010/01/...

He's weird. Everything he writes comes over as bitter. I think it is something to do with him being the less well-known and less well-liked of the two brothers, and the other one upset half the world.

He starts by saying he's hated by labour, and to prove it the door was slammed in his face. It could be that they just don't like him.

He's become predictable, indeed repetitious, in his writings, so much so that he has become a caricature, and a rather grotesque version, of himself.

At least his brother, you know, the famous one, had a sense of humour.

Predictable in that he has been saying the same things for the past decade, yes indeed. That doesn't mean however that his views don't accurately reflect what one could describe as old fashioned conservatism, perhaps of the type that would garner the Conservative party many more votes if it ditched the Cameron one nation stuff and went more socially conservative. The polling I linked to seems to indicate that the answer is yes.

[Derek Smith]

NJH said:

Derek Smith said:

NJH said:

This article by Peter Hitchens is probably a good start:
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2010/01/...

He's weird. Everything he writes comes over as bitter. I think it is something to do with him being the less well-known and less well-liked of the two brothers, and the other one upset half the world.

He starts by saying he's hated by labour, and to prove it the door was slammed in his face. It could be that they just don't like him.

He's become predictable, indeed repetitious, in his writings, so much so that he has become a caricature, and a rather grotesque version, of himself.

At least his brother, you know, the famous one, had a sense of humour.

Predictable in that he has been saying the same things for the past decade, yes indeed. That doesn't mean however that his views don't accurately reflect what one could describe as old fashioned conservatism, perhaps of the type that would garner the Conservative party many more votes if it ditched the Cameron one nation stuff and went more socially conservative. The polling I linked to seems to indicate that the answer is yes.

The predictable thing about the other Hitchens is that he changes his mind so often.

He seems to want to irritate and shock, being more successful in the first bit than latter. His support for the death penalty is enough to get him excluded from the tory party. He used to be an atheist but, realising that he'd be the other atheist Hitchens he changed to being religious, but not really, just sticking to CoE. He comes over as homophobic. Whether he is or not is in doubt. I reckon he criticises it just to get comment in the press.

I've read a book of his on drugs legislation. It reads very well but I found things to disagree with on almost every page. The logic is that of someone committed to a point of view. There are accusations that his brother's book, God is not Great, reads like a sermon. Compared to the other brother's book on drugs, it's open minded and really just a chat.

He was a member of the SWP and left, criticising it. He joined the labour party and left, criticising it. He tried to be a tory candidate, but failed, and now is a big critic of the tory party. There seems to be a pattern developing.

He's a contrarian. He'll pick a subject and go against it.

What is predictable about Hichens the younger is that he will moan, criticise others, be superior and irritate. I don't know what his political persuasion is at the moment - I doubt he's got a firm grasp on it - but it will change.

There's nothing 'old fashioned' about his conservatism. It is unique to him.

[hidetheelephants]

2nd best Hitchens, even with the other pushing up the daisies.

[psi310398]

An interesting left-leaning take on the "traditional working class" and Labour:

https://unherd.com/2019/04/why-does-the-left-sneer...

among other things, such as not taking it for granted that non-white groups can automatically be assumed to be Remainers, the author suggests that this "group is rooted, patriotic, communitarian in outlook, often holding small ‘c’ conservative views on social and cultural issues".

[NJH]

Derek Smith said:

There's nothing 'old fashioned' about his conservatism. It is unique to him.

Seriously. Look I am no fan of Hitchens, he is no doubt a professional whiner. He writes a lot and speaks a lot about the trashing of family values, respect for the law and destruction of our culture and communities through over immigration. How can that be anything else other than an old fashioned socially conservative viewpoint.