How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 4)
Discussion
Ghibli said:
That's right. If I remember correctly he used to say that remainers should get behind Brexit like he has 
No. That's absolutely not what I said. I was pretty much on the fence for the Referendum (I'm neither a Remainer or a Leaver in that respect), and realised what a big deal negotiating Brexit would be, which is why I didn't vote Leave. My position was (and still is) that whichever we chose, we'd have to commit to making a success of it, or we'd (a) end up in a worse state than we are and (b) be stuck in a limbo of votes and recriminations.I've not said Remainer voters should 'get behind' Brexit, so much as the vote has to be respected, and the government has to be seen to deliver.
So far, I'd say the evidence backs that up - May has dug herself a big hole with the Chequers thing, and Farage is back in the papers rabble rousing. It seems possible that the attempts by both sides to deliver a 'minimal' brexit will leave Boris, Farage and co. with an open goal. They only need to claim that the reason the negotiations have not delivered a better result sooner is because May's heart isn't in it, and I suspect a lot of people will agree.
It's incredible that the UK is seeing economic growth, rising wages, high employment and yet May hasn't translated that into satisfaction that we're 'following the right path'. Instead, we've got the fear squad out again. Politically, I'm expecting a push for a harder Brexit after the summer break from the usual subjects, and all the evidence is that threatening the electorate will not get people to back May.
So no, I've not called for Damascene conversions for Remainers, just that having chosen an outcome, we can't 'wish it away'. The end result of fudging Brexit will be much worse than just committing to doing it properly. A big chunk of the vote was about the electorate feeling their voices weren't being heard, so giving them direct evidence that their wishes are being ignored is really going to cause problems further down the line.
I suspect that the Remainers in government who have tried to deliver a compromise Brexit are going to end up fuelling a backlash that could result in a much 'harder' Brexit than we might have had.
Tuna said:
Ghibli said:
That's right. If I remember correctly he used to say that remainers should get behind Brexit like he has
No. That's absolutely not what I said. I was pretty much on the fence for the Referendum (I'm neither a Remainer or a Leaver in that respect), and realised what a big deal negotiating Brexit would be, which is why I didn't vote Leave. My position was (and still is) that whichever we chose, we'd have to commit to making a success of it, or we'd (a) end up in a worse state than we are and (b) be stuck in a limbo of votes and recriminations.I've not said Remainer voters should 'get behind' Brexit, so much as the vote has to be respected, and the government has to be seen to deliver.
So far, I'd say the evidence backs that up - May has dug herself a big hole with the Chequers thing, and Farage is back in the papers rabble rousing. It seems possible that the attempts by both sides to deliver a 'minimal' brexit will leave Boris, Farage and co. with an open goal. They only need to claim that the reason the negotiations have not delivered a better result sooner is because May's heart isn't in it, and I suspect a lot of people will agree.
It's incredible that the UK is seeing economic growth, rising wages, high employment and yet May hasn't translated that into satisfaction that we're 'following the right path'. Instead, we've got the fear squad out again. Politically, I'm expecting a push for a harder Brexit after the summer break from the usual subjects, and all the evidence is that threatening the electorate will not get people to back May.
So no, I've not called for Damascene conversions for Remainers, just that having chosen an outcome, we can't 'wish it away'. The end result of fudging Brexit will be much worse than just committing to doing it properly. A big chunk of the vote was about the electorate feeling their voices weren't being heard, so giving them direct evidence that their wishes are being ignored is really going to cause problems further down the line.
I suspect that the Remainers in government who have tried to deliver a compromise Brexit are going to end up fuelling a backlash that could result in a much 'harder' Brexit than we might have had.
My brothers voted Remain while I plumped for Leave. All very by the sword divided.
While one has gone all A C Grayling since 2016, the other has stated he’ll vote leave, in the unlikely event of a second referendum, out of both principle (democracy respected blah) and pragmatism (the incoming fudge will be a disaster).
jsf said:
Ghibli said:
What you don't understand is that the UK voted to leave the EU. If we have left we can't leave again.
Oof, you really are that thick. Brexit means Brexit, no deal is better than a bad deal, we are leaving on the 29th March 2019 all sound bites.
Ballot paper says leave or remain in the EU. Yet you will still be waiting to leave the EU when we have already left.
frisbee said:
Farage is probably worried about his £73k/year, all these threats not to pay the £39billion...
Farage is starting a campaign for the voice of the people to be heard. Or does he mean a campaign for his own voice to be heard.Maybe he is expecting another referendum.
https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-back-in-po...
Ghibli said:
don'tbesilly said:
Tuna voted Remain
That's right. If I remember correctly he used to say that remainers should get behind Brexit like he has Meanwhile Nigel is not happy with the Chequers proposal that has been rejected by the EU.
No Nige isn't is he, anymore than Mogg is, and no more than the majority of Leave voters are.
The fact it's been rejected by the EU is of little relevance to anyone voting to Leave the EU, as the Chequers proposal wasn't leaving the EU.
don'tbesilly said:
Hiya Stalky
No Nige isn't is he, anymore than Mogg is, and no more than the majority of Leave voters are.
The fact it's been rejected by the EU is of little relevance to anyone voting to Leave the EU, as the Chequers proposal wasn't leaving the EU.
You should be happy that no deal is looking possible.No Nige isn't is he, anymore than Mogg is, and no more than the majority of Leave voters are.
The fact it's been rejected by the EU is of little relevance to anyone voting to Leave the EU, as the Chequers proposal wasn't leaving the EU.
NEXT
jjlynn27 said:
Missing the point, again.
Take a second and imagine the outrage if the article was 'Eu bugged Chequers meeting'. It would be followed by loud chomping on denture glue, clonking of zimmer-frames, and cries of "Omg, see! Thank god we are out of there", "Look those are supposed to be our friends!", "I knew they are not to be trusted" with obligatory "Mafia! Look at how they behave, they are trying to bully us!".
Not at all. You asked what the reaction would be - I gave you mine. It might not be the one you thought you were inviting. Take a second and imagine the outrage if the article was 'Eu bugged Chequers meeting'. It would be followed by loud chomping on denture glue, clonking of zimmer-frames, and cries of "Omg, see! Thank god we are out of there", "Look those are supposed to be our friends!", "I knew they are not to be trusted" with obligatory "Mafia! Look at how they behave, they are trying to bully us!".
I and most grown ups would expect other security services to be trying to find out what the other side is thinking - it's their job.
Nor do I consider the Commission, the Germans or French to be our friends - they're not. At best, they are associates
Ghibli said:
don'tbesilly said:
Hiya Stalky
No Nige isn't is he, anymore than Mogg is, and no more than the majority of Leave voters are.
The fact it's been rejected by the EU is of little relevance to anyone voting to Leave the EU, as the Chequers proposal wasn't leaving the EU.
You should be happy that no deal is looking possible.No Nige isn't is he, anymore than Mogg is, and no more than the majority of Leave voters are.
The fact it's been rejected by the EU is of little relevance to anyone voting to Leave the EU, as the Chequers proposal wasn't leaving the EU.
NEXT
Your posts are very similar to the leather you prefer, which is faux, and from Next
This one is probably outside your budget, and is real, you prefer faux:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leather-NEXT-Bernie-cha...
Ghibli said:
sidicks said:
Ghibli said:
Obviously not as 'thick' as you.
Evidence suggests otherwise.
k me!I appreciate you are dumb (hence why when people ask you to justify your pov, you deflect and ask a question back) Let me try and explain to you what it is that Sidicks means.
2019 We BINO as per some f
k up by May et al. (Personally, I'd rather Remain than have anything approaching the Chequers deal!)2020 We have a GE. May/Corbyn (since he will still be there!) get wiped out by some new populist party. Lets call in "Nu-UKIP"
2021 "Nu-UKIP" goes back to the EU. And points out that as Mays lot did the worst deal in history. A Chequers/BINO is not respecting the result of 2016. So we're going to be ending that agreement in 365 days time. And if they want to, we'd like to negotiate a proper FTA / Financial Services arrangement with the EU to take over once that 365 day period has ended.
Depending on how we've done in that time, and how the EU has done in that time. Will of course sway the balance of power.
Rich_W said:
fk me!
I appreciate you are dumb (hence why when people ask you to justify your pov, you deflect and ask a question back) Let me try and explain to you what it is that Sidicks means.
2019 We BINO as per some fk up by May et al. (Personally, I'd rather Remain than have anything approaching the Chequers deal!)
2020 We have a GE. May/Corbyn (since he will still be there!) get wiped out by some new populist party. Lets call in "Nu-UKIP"
2021 "Nu-UKIP" goes back to the EU. And points out that as Mays lot did the worst deal in history. A Chequers/BINO is not respecting the result of 2016. So we're going to be ending that agreement in 365 days time. And if they want to, we'd like to negotiate a proper FTA / Financial Services arrangement with the EU to take over once that 365 day period has ended.
Depending on how we've done in that time, and how the EU has done in that time. Will of course sway the balance of power.
Thanks, but I've not said any of the above!k me!I appreciate you are dumb (hence why when people ask you to justify your pov, you deflect and ask a question back) Let me try and explain to you what it is that Sidicks means.
2019 We BINO as per some f
k up by May et al. (Personally, I'd rather Remain than have anything approaching the Chequers deal!)2020 We have a GE. May/Corbyn (since he will still be there!) get wiped out by some new populist party. Lets call in "Nu-UKIP"
2021 "Nu-UKIP" goes back to the EU. And points out that as Mays lot did the worst deal in history. A Chequers/BINO is not respecting the result of 2016. So we're going to be ending that agreement in 365 days time. And if they want to, we'd like to negotiate a proper FTA / Financial Services arrangement with the EU to take over once that 365 day period has ended.
Depending on how we've done in that time, and how the EU has done in that time. Will of course sway the balance of power.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Good!!! about time we had some common sense and hopefully he will hold the vile Maybot to account , make a fuss about 
the slimy s
t Oily Robbins unelected EU fellating turd "advising " on the brexit negotiations ... as a starter big hill of st to climb after 2 years of the remain campaigns war of attrition ... Go Nigel ... jjlynn27 said:
Read and understand the post as a whole, rather than trying to do ridiculous 'oh it contains 'could''. It's rather obvious that it was written by someone who knows what they are talking about, with an actual scan/copy of a document.
Given the recent collapse of the bridge, and how many people died, don't you find it distasteful to write about it in the way that you did?
i did, and i also appreciate someone taking the time to explain a real situation due to their position. i understand the uncertainty for the individual concerned is not ideal and i wish them and their business all the best for the future. the only issue i had with anything was your use of "concrete certainty" ,as there is still room for negotiation that will hopefully see that particular business unaffected or with minimal change to meet bidding criteria.Given the recent collapse of the bridge, and how many people died, don't you find it distasteful to write about it in the way that you did?
as for the sarcy comment re the concrete. taste in sarcasm and jokes is subjective. apologies if you found that particular comment distasteful,my sense of humour is darker than most.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff