How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 4)
Discussion
loafer123 said:
He is suggesting that NI remains in the Single Market and Customs Union under the backstop.
Oh.I thought I'd read he was talking about not insisting on a border down the Irish Sea and allowing checks on goods to happen away from the border.
(Chequers effectively leaves us in the SM/CU without the bigger benefits of either
).Helicopter123 said:
don'tbesilly said:
Helicopter123 said:
psi310398 said:
If you can't see that the BBC is biased, nothing I can say is likely change your mind, so I won't waste my time.
But you might wish to consider the possibility that your difficulty in "find[ing] any credible sources that support Brexit" is a symptom of confirmation bias...
The BBC must be politically and commercially independent by dint of its Royal Charter.But you might wish to consider the possibility that your difficulty in "find[ing] any credible sources that support Brexit" is a symptom of confirmation bias...
Please tell me which MSM you would say covers Brexit fairly from your side of the argument? I do challenge confirmation bias. I won’t look at loony tune websites or filthy tabloid nonsense.
Have you deleted the post you made about me yet?
I've not seen an apology, thanks
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/governance/regulato...
At least consider the possibility for a moment that if the BBC is in fact politically and commercially neutral, then where does that leave you, and your opinions, if they are so far removed from neutral?
The fact that the BBC is accused of bias from all sides of the political spectrum tells me that they are indeed neutral.
And this is the way they gadge if they are being impartial.
https://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidetheb...
First off it's only 1000 people no doubt a incredibly accurate representation of the nation. Especially when you see that the Guardian only scores 1 point less then the BBC on how biased or impartial they are.
It's a total con all they are doing is compering commercial media outlets with themselves, It's like asking if you had to leave you kid with someone would it be Jimmy Savile, Jack the Ripper, Myra Hindley or some random person in the pub?
Also this argument of news and media outlets need to be factual and are under the control of regulatory bodys makes them unbiased and impartial is also a con. You can easily be factual but incredibly biased its all down to how you frame the story and what you do or do not highlight.
Is this news story today factual and honest well the headline at least?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45561908
BMW to close Mini plant for a month post-Brexit
They are not closing the plant they are having a production shutdown as they would normally do all they have done is reschedule it a month early. In my opinion it's a incredibly misleading boarding on a direct lie of a headline which wouldn't be out of place in a tabloid.
Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Tuesday 18th September 23:47
Murph7355 said:
loafer123 said:
He is suggesting that NI remains in the Single Market and Customs Union under the backstop.
Oh.I thought I'd read he was talking about not insisting on a border down the Irish Sea and allowing checks on goods to happen away from the border.
(Chequers effectively leaves us in the SM/CU without the bigger benefits of either
).You may well wonder why he will accept that between NI and GB, but won’t accept that between NI and ROI given that that would be a breach of the Good Friday agreement (or at least the bizarro interpretation used by ROI and the EU).
We’re getting into some odd positioning here.
In terms of how "impartial" or "unbiased" a news organisation is, wait until they report on something which goes against their own personal biases, or against the commercial interests of their owners and advertisers.
Some are pointing out that the BBC have had the sort of headlines you would associate with a tabloid, but the Financial Times has been just the same at times.
Some are pointing out that the BBC have had the sort of headlines you would associate with a tabloid, but the Financial Times has been just the same at times.
Ridgemont said:
He is suggesting that. He is suggesting that you can have technological preclearances for freight before it hits Holyhead. He is suggesting you could have phytosanitary inspections say set back from Holyhead to avoid congestion.
You may well wonder why he will accept that between NI and GB, but won’t accept that between NI and ROI given that that would be a breach of the Good Friday agreement (or at least the bizarro interpretation used by ROI and the EU).
We’re getting into some odd positioning here.
The positioning is understandable. You may well wonder why he will accept that between NI and GB, but won’t accept that between NI and ROI given that that would be a breach of the Good Friday agreement (or at least the bizarro interpretation used by ROI and the EU).
We’re getting into some odd positioning here.
There was never any issue in doing the things he's now suggesting. Never.
The EU know that May's plan gives them a pretty ideal situation as it currently stands. BRINO. They pretty much have the ideal situation.
The positioning now is to see if any more could be squeezed out of the UK - my guess is that this will centre around ongoing fees for the administrative elements of the EU that actually make sense for the UK to be part of. The carrot is now there, May/Robbins are stupid enough to fall for it.
I'm really hoping this gets voted down by Parliament. It is now abundantly clear (if ever it needed to be demonstrated) that the Irish border is a non-issue. Just like the vast majority of the "issues" wheeled out are nothing of the sort.
Indeed - however by pointing out the technical AEO solution can work in the Irish Sea, its also very obvious the same approach (as proposed by Davis, and more recently the ERG) can apply in Ireland...
May cannot now stick with an answer that no one wants, on the basis 'there's no alternative'.
May cannot now stick with an answer that no one wants, on the basis 'there's no alternative'.
Sway said:
Indeed - however by pointing out the technical AEO solution can work in the Irish Sea, its also very obvious the same approach (as proposed by Davis, and more recently the ERG) can apply in Ireland...
May cannot now stick with an answer that no one wants, on the basis 'there's no alternative'.
May won’t deviate from chequers other than to agree EU driven amendments to get the deal done. This will be the only deal put to Parliament.May cannot now stick with an answer that no one wants, on the basis 'there's no alternative'.
Some people think it’s impossible to get a People’s Vote because Theresa May has ruled one out. This is not so. MPs will have many ways to give the people a final say at the end of the Brexit talks if that’s what they want, according to a report written by Lord Kerr, the former civil servant who helped write Article 50, with input from a range of constitutional and legal experts, as well as politicians in the UK and Europe.
If MPs decide to give voters the final say, the report recommends it should be a binary choice between staying in the EU and whatever the government is proposing. If there’s no deal, the choice should be between staying and leaving the EU without a deal. If there’s a deal, it should be a choice between staying and leaving with the deal May has negotiated.
The report, which has been written for the People’s Vote campaign, does not rule out entirely a referendum with three options if it could command a majority in Parliament. But it says that, for reasons of simplicity, speed and clarity, as well as past experience, it is unlikely such a proposal would prevail.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/157...
The report, entitled The Roadmap to a People’s Vote, sets out six plausible routes to get such a vote:
If there’s a deal, MPs could amend the Parliamentary motion needed to back it, requiring the deal to be subject to a People’s Vote.
If MPs reject a deal or there’s no deal by January 21, the government has to present alternative plans to Parliament. MPs could then amend the motion approving those plans, making them subject to a People’s Vote.
Even if MPs support the motion to back the government’s deal, they could amend the legislation implementing it, making it conditional on approval by a People’s Vote.
The prime minister herself could decide to put her deal to the people either because MPs have rejected it or because she fears they will.
May could also decide to ask the people what to do if she is unable to secure a deal.
If there’s a snap election in the next few months, MPs could then legislate for a People’s Vote.
The report says yet more options may open up for MPs to force a People’s Vote, as events and possible chaos unfold. If a People’s Vote is not granted by Parliament, it will not be due to procedural impediments or a lack of time, but because MPs have chosen not to take these opportunities. After all, it is Parliament not the prime minister who is sovereign - and May is being undemocratic to suggest she can tell MPs what to do.
If MPs decide to give voters the final say, the report recommends it should be a binary choice between staying in the EU and whatever the government is proposing. If there’s no deal, the choice should be between staying and leaving the EU without a deal. If there’s a deal, it should be a choice between staying and leaving with the deal May has negotiated.
The report, which has been written for the People’s Vote campaign, does not rule out entirely a referendum with three options if it could command a majority in Parliament. But it says that, for reasons of simplicity, speed and clarity, as well as past experience, it is unlikely such a proposal would prevail.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/157...
The report, entitled The Roadmap to a People’s Vote, sets out six plausible routes to get such a vote:
If there’s a deal, MPs could amend the Parliamentary motion needed to back it, requiring the deal to be subject to a People’s Vote.
If MPs reject a deal or there’s no deal by January 21, the government has to present alternative plans to Parliament. MPs could then amend the motion approving those plans, making them subject to a People’s Vote.
Even if MPs support the motion to back the government’s deal, they could amend the legislation implementing it, making it conditional on approval by a People’s Vote.
The prime minister herself could decide to put her deal to the people either because MPs have rejected it or because she fears they will.
May could also decide to ask the people what to do if she is unable to secure a deal.
If there’s a snap election in the next few months, MPs could then legislate for a People’s Vote.
The report says yet more options may open up for MPs to force a People’s Vote, as events and possible chaos unfold. If a People’s Vote is not granted by Parliament, it will not be due to procedural impediments or a lack of time, but because MPs have chosen not to take these opportunities. After all, it is Parliament not the prime minister who is sovereign - and May is being undemocratic to suggest she can tell MPs what to do.
Helicopter123 said:
Some people think it’s impossible to get a People’s Vote because Theresa May has ruled one out. This is not so. MPs will have many ways to give the people a final say at the end of the Brexit talks if that’s what they want, according to a report written by Lord Kerr, the former civil servant who helped write Article 50, with input from a range of constitutional and legal experts, as well as politicians in the UK and Europe.
If MPs decide to give voters the final say, the report recommends it should be a binary choice between staying in the EU and whatever the government is proposing. If there’s no deal, the choice should be between staying and leaving the EU without a deal. If there’s a deal, it should be a choice between staying and leaving with the deal May has negotiated.
The report, which has been written for the People’s Vote campaign, does not rule out entirely a referendum with three options if it could command a majority in Parliament. But it says that, for reasons of simplicity, speed and clarity, as well as past experience, it is unlikely such a proposal would prevail.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/157...
The report, entitled The Roadmap to a People’s Vote, sets out six plausible routes to get such a vote:
If there’s a deal, MPs could amend the Parliamentary motion needed to back it, requiring the deal to be subject to a People’s Vote.
If MPs reject a deal or there’s no deal by January 21, the government has to present alternative plans to Parliament. MPs could then amend the motion approving those plans, making them subject to a People’s Vote.
Even if MPs support the motion to back the government’s deal, they could amend the legislation implementing it, making it conditional on approval by a People’s Vote.
The prime minister herself could decide to put her deal to the people either because MPs have rejected it or because she fears they will.
May could also decide to ask the people what to do if she is unable to secure a deal.
If there’s a snap election in the next few months, MPs could then legislate for a People’s Vote.
The report says yet more options may open up for MPs to force a People’s Vote, as events and possible chaos unfold. If a People’s Vote is not granted by Parliament, it will not be due to procedural impediments or a lack of time, but because MPs have chosen not to take these opportunities. After all, it is Parliament not the prime minister who is sovereign - and May is being undemocratic to suggest she can tell MPs what to do.
The above is from the people’s vote campaign and worthy of note as they believe, based on expert advice, that there remains opportunity and time to force a second vote. Indeed multiple opportunities exist to get this approved.If MPs decide to give voters the final say, the report recommends it should be a binary choice between staying in the EU and whatever the government is proposing. If there’s no deal, the choice should be between staying and leaving the EU without a deal. If there’s a deal, it should be a choice between staying and leaving with the deal May has negotiated.
The report, which has been written for the People’s Vote campaign, does not rule out entirely a referendum with three options if it could command a majority in Parliament. But it says that, for reasons of simplicity, speed and clarity, as well as past experience, it is unlikely such a proposal would prevail.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/157...
The report, entitled The Roadmap to a People’s Vote, sets out six plausible routes to get such a vote:
If there’s a deal, MPs could amend the Parliamentary motion needed to back it, requiring the deal to be subject to a People’s Vote.
If MPs reject a deal or there’s no deal by January 21, the government has to present alternative plans to Parliament. MPs could then amend the motion approving those plans, making them subject to a People’s Vote.
Even if MPs support the motion to back the government’s deal, they could amend the legislation implementing it, making it conditional on approval by a People’s Vote.
The prime minister herself could decide to put her deal to the people either because MPs have rejected it or because she fears they will.
May could also decide to ask the people what to do if she is unable to secure a deal.
If there’s a snap election in the next few months, MPs could then legislate for a People’s Vote.
The report says yet more options may open up for MPs to force a People’s Vote, as events and possible chaos unfold. If a People’s Vote is not granted by Parliament, it will not be due to procedural impediments or a lack of time, but because MPs have chosen not to take these opportunities. After all, it is Parliament not the prime minister who is sovereign - and May is being undemocratic to suggest she can tell MPs what to do.
Helicopter123 said:
The report, which has been written for the People’s Vote campaign, does not rule out entirely a referendum with three options if it could command a majority in Parliament. But it says that, for reasons of simplicity, speed and clarity, as well as past experience, it is unlikely such a proposal would prevail.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/157...
The report, entitled The Roadmap to a People’s Vote, sets out six plausible routes to get such a vote:
If there’s a deal, MPs could amend the Parliamentary motion needed to back it, requiring the deal to be subject to a People’s Vote.
If MPs reject a deal or there’s no deal by January 21, the government has to present alternative plans to Parliament. MPs could then amend the motion approving those plans, making them subject to a People’s Vote.
Even if MPs support the motion to back the government’s deal, they could amend the legislation implementing it, making it conditional on approval by a People’s Vote.
The prime minister herself could decide to put her deal to the people either because MPs have rejected it or because she fears they will.
May could also decide to ask the people what to do if she is unable to secure a deal.
If there’s a snap election in the next few months, MPs could then legislate for a People’s Vote.
The report says yet more options may open up for MPs to force a People’s Vote, as events and possible chaos unfold. If a People’s Vote is not granted by Parliament, it will not be due to procedural impediments or a lack of time, but because MPs have chosen not to take these opportunities. After all, it is Parliament not the prime minister who is sovereign - and May is being undemocratic to suggest she can tell MPs what to do.
Report ‘written for People’s vote’, says it is possible to have a ‘People’s vote’...https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/157...
The report, entitled The Roadmap to a People’s Vote, sets out six plausible routes to get such a vote:
If there’s a deal, MPs could amend the Parliamentary motion needed to back it, requiring the deal to be subject to a People’s Vote.
If MPs reject a deal or there’s no deal by January 21, the government has to present alternative plans to Parliament. MPs could then amend the motion approving those plans, making them subject to a People’s Vote.
Even if MPs support the motion to back the government’s deal, they could amend the legislation implementing it, making it conditional on approval by a People’s Vote.
The prime minister herself could decide to put her deal to the people either because MPs have rejected it or because she fears they will.
May could also decide to ask the people what to do if she is unable to secure a deal.
If there’s a snap election in the next few months, MPs could then legislate for a People’s Vote.
The report says yet more options may open up for MPs to force a People’s Vote, as events and possible chaos unfold. If a People’s Vote is not granted by Parliament, it will not be due to procedural impediments or a lack of time, but because MPs have chosen not to take these opportunities. After all, it is Parliament not the prime minister who is sovereign - and May is being undemocratic to suggest she can tell MPs what to do.
Hmm..
Doesn’t mean it is likely to happen.
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