How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 4)
Discussion
sidicks said:
Helicopter123 said:
The report, which has been written for the People’s Vote campaign, does not rule out entirely a referendum with three options if it could command a majority in Parliament. But it says that, for reasons of simplicity, speed and clarity, as well as past experience, it is unlikely such a proposal would prevail.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/157...
The report, entitled The Roadmap to a People’s Vote, sets out six plausible routes to get such a vote:
If there’s a deal, MPs could amend the Parliamentary motion needed to back it, requiring the deal to be subject to a People’s Vote.
If MPs reject a deal or there’s no deal by January 21, the government has to present alternative plans to Parliament. MPs could then amend the motion approving those plans, making them subject to a People’s Vote.
Even if MPs support the motion to back the government’s deal, they could amend the legislation implementing it, making it conditional on approval by a People’s Vote.
The prime minister herself could decide to put her deal to the people either because MPs have rejected it or because she fears they will.
May could also decide to ask the people what to do if she is unable to secure a deal.
If there’s a snap election in the next few months, MPs could then legislate for a People’s Vote.
The report says yet more options may open up for MPs to force a People’s Vote, as events and possible chaos unfold. If a People’s Vote is not granted by Parliament, it will not be due to procedural impediments or a lack of time, but because MPs have chosen not to take these opportunities. After all, it is Parliament not the prime minister who is sovereign - and May is being undemocratic to suggest she can tell MPs what to do.
Report ‘written for People’s vote’, says it is possible to have a ‘People’s vote’...https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/in/pages/157...
The report, entitled The Roadmap to a People’s Vote, sets out six plausible routes to get such a vote:
If there’s a deal, MPs could amend the Parliamentary motion needed to back it, requiring the deal to be subject to a People’s Vote.
If MPs reject a deal or there’s no deal by January 21, the government has to present alternative plans to Parliament. MPs could then amend the motion approving those plans, making them subject to a People’s Vote.
Even if MPs support the motion to back the government’s deal, they could amend the legislation implementing it, making it conditional on approval by a People’s Vote.
The prime minister herself could decide to put her deal to the people either because MPs have rejected it or because she fears they will.
May could also decide to ask the people what to do if she is unable to secure a deal.
If there’s a snap election in the next few months, MPs could then legislate for a People’s Vote.
The report says yet more options may open up for MPs to force a People’s Vote, as events and possible chaos unfold. If a People’s Vote is not granted by Parliament, it will not be due to procedural impediments or a lack of time, but because MPs have chosen not to take these opportunities. After all, it is Parliament not the prime minister who is sovereign - and May is being undemocratic to suggest she can tell MPs what to do.
Hmm..
Doesn’t mean it is likely to happen.
It may not be likely (at this point) but it is not impossible as some have claimed.
For me, chequers the most likely outcome.
sidicks said:
Report ‘written for People’s vote’, says it is possible to have a ‘People’s vote’...
Hmm..
Doesn’t mean it is likely to happen.
Ignoring the thorny question of which remain scenario would be presented, the report does not address what happens to politics in this country if politicians do not implement the decisive outcome of a vote, the result of which it was promised would be acted upon. Why would anybody - Remain or Leave - believe any promises made this time around? And what is stopping a further vote to reverse this one? Why do some Remainers think Leavers will just give up? Hmm..
Doesn’t mean it is likely to happen.
Helicopter123 said:
The above is from the people’s vote campaign and worthy of note as they believe, based on expert advice, that there remains opportunity and time to force a second vote. Indeed multiple opportunities exist to get this approved.
I can see where they are coming from but they are glossing over a lot of Parliamentary procedure and I suspect are talking rubbish.If it was that easy to simply amend a bit EU legislation to add a referendum clause believe me some would have done so on Maastricht, Lisbon etc.
The reality is, while Parliament can block things, they have limited powers to create things. They are the legislature and the Government the executive. Unless the Government supports the idea they will struggle to get any of it off the ground.
Helicopter123 said:
For once, I agree with you (up to a point).
It may not be likely (at this point) but it is not impossible as some have claimed.
It's not impossible if both Parliament and the Government of the day decide that's what they want to do. We seem some way from that at the moment though - the Government clearly doesn't and it isn't clear how many in Parliament would support such an idea apart from a vocal minority. It may not be likely (at this point) but it is not impossible as some have claimed.
psi310398 said:
sidicks said:
Report ‘written for People’s vote’, says it is possible to have a ‘People’s vote’...
Hmm..
Doesn’t mean it is likely to happen.
Ignoring the thorny question of which remain scenario would be presented, the report does not address what happens to politics in this country if politicians do not implement the decisive outcome of a vote, the result of which it was promised would be acted upon. Why would anybody - Remain or Leave - believe any promises made this time around? And what is stopping a further vote to reverse this one? Why do some Remainers think Leavers will just give up? Hmm..
Doesn’t mean it is likely to happen.
But seriously the Remain campaign haven't seriously thought through what will happen to politics in this country if they do get their way, either through a second vote or simply by effectively ignoring the first.
As said so many times, be careful what you wish for.
FiF said:
Perhaps because we gave up in 75?
But seriously the Remain campaign haven't seriously thought through what will happen to politics in this country if they do get their way, either through a second vote or simply by effectively ignoring the first.
They also haven't thought through what we'd be voting on. The deal will not be completed until mid-2021 at the earliest so all they'll be voting on is Withdrawal agreement with a vague political deceleration containing some vague aspirations.But seriously the Remain campaign haven't seriously thought through what will happen to politics in this country if they do get their way, either through a second vote or simply by effectively ignoring the first.
(Well, let's be honest, they know all this and know it is a crock of whatsit and just want a defacto re-run of In/Out which is their prerogative to want but I wish they'd just say so and drop the "People's Vote" hypocrisy crap)
confused_buyer said:
They also haven't thought through what we'd be voting on. The deal will not be completed until mid-2021 at the earliest so all they'll be voting on is Withdrawal agreement with a vague political deceleration containing some vague aspirations.
(Well, let's be honest, they know all this and know it is a crock of whatsit and just want a defacto re-run of In/Out which is their prerogative to want but I wish they'd just say so and drop the "People's Vote" hypocrisy crap)
Well yes indeed, utter hypocrisy.(Well, let's be honest, they know all this and know it is a crock of whatsit and just want a defacto re-run of In/Out which is their prerogative to want but I wish they'd just say so and drop the "People's Vote" hypocrisy crap)
On the other hand some aren't so hypocritical, a few wandering around campus giggling and singing chants about Brexit is finished and we're staying in. I kid you not. No exaggeration sadly.
jsf said:
<usual waffle>
Carney and his decisions discussion has only been twisted by you to suggest i don't know the role of the MPC,
No twisting needed. Carney and his decisions discussion has only been twisted by you to suggest i don't know the role of the MPC,
jsf said:
He also made some really stupid decisions such as lowering interest rates post the Brexit vote.
jsf said:
I'm refering to his decision later to lower interest rates only to then have to raise them again, twice.
Once again, it wasn't his decision. It was a unanimous decision of nine people. FiF said:
confused_buyer said:
They also haven't thought through what we'd be voting on. The deal will not be completed until mid-2021 at the earliest so all they'll be voting on is Withdrawal agreement with a vague political deceleration containing some vague aspirations.
(Well, let's be honest, they know all this and know it is a crock of whatsit and just want a defacto re-run of In/Out which is their prerogative to want but I wish they'd just say so and drop the "People's Vote" hypocrisy crap)
Well yes indeed, utter hypocrisy.(Well, let's be honest, they know all this and know it is a crock of whatsit and just want a defacto re-run of In/Out which is their prerogative to want but I wish they'd just say so and drop the "People's Vote" hypocrisy crap)
On the other hand some aren't so hypocritical, a few wandering around campus giggling and singing chants about Brexit is finished and we're staying in. I kid you not. No exaggeration sadly.
jjlynn27 said:
jsf said:
<usual waffle>
Carney and his decisions discussion has only been twisted by you to suggest i don't know the role of the MPC,
No twisting needed. Carney and his decisions discussion has only been twisted by you to suggest i don't know the role of the MPC,
jsf said:
He also made some really stupid decisions such as lowering interest rates post the Brexit vote.
jsf said:
I'm refering to his decision later to lower interest rates only to then have to raise them again, twice.
Once again, it wasn't his decision. It was a unanimous decision of nine people. Ergo his decision.
Garvin said:
They appear to be split between those who want a re-run of the in/out vote and those who want a vote on some form of exit deal and a no exit deal. I’m still waiting for clarification from the Remain community just what the ‘people’s vote’ will actually be but I am not surprised that nobody has answered this question because they can’t. But they still pursue it! Yet they still hang onto an arrogant notion that they are somehow superior!
Who is this 'remain community' then? Is it similar to other communities that are often being called on to form a homologous opinion on anything demanded of them?TTwiggy said:
Who is this 'remain community' then? Is it similar to other communities that are often being called on to form a homologous opinion on anything demanded of them?
It's Blair, Umunna, Logan, Lammy and Lineker, to name but five. Serious people with real world experience of these things.Camoradi said:
TTwiggy said:
Who is this 'remain community' then? Is it similar to other communities that are often being called on to form a homologous opinion on anything demanded of them?
It's Blair, Umunna, Logan, Lammy and Lineker, to name but five. Serious people with real world experience of these things.Look what just popped up on my screen..sorry it's Huffpost but it has to be posted
Poor Tim but dim:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/anxious-wor...
Poor Tim but dim:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/anxious-wor...
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