How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 4)
Discussion
Deptford Draylons said:
Helicopter123 said:
Which rights would you wish to see removed?
I keep hearing about swathes of workers rights going the min we leave the EU. Do you know which is first on the chopping block ?...including sweeping tax cuts and deregulation on workers’ rights, scrapping automatic enrolment into pension schemes and ditching environmental regulations.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-bat...
Hardly the progressive response to brexit I think many would be expecting.
Vote brexit, lose your pension (for starters).
desolate said:
Deptford Draylons said:
I keep hearing about swathes of workers rights going the min we leave the EU. Do you know which is first on the chopping block ?
Wouldn't that be for Sway and SpeckledJim to answer rather than Helicoper?Deptford Draylons said:
Anyone can answer if they wish. Helicopter was saying we would be undercutting the EU. I'm wondering how so and what rights are for the chop.
OK - Tuna was complaining that "workers rights" were preventing him from employing someone.I thought Helicopter was referring that, but I accept that given his posting history I am probably wrong.
I'd be curious to know what "rights" people like Tuna want to change.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 26th September 11:43
Helicopter123 said:
That would be a matter for the UK government of the day BUT some of the ideas being put forward in cabinet as part of a 'shock and awe' deregulation plan to deal with the aftermath of a hard brexit are
...including sweeping tax cuts and deregulation on workers’ rights, scrapping automatic enrolment into pension schemes and ditching environmental regulations.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-bat...
Hardly the progressive response to brexit I think many would be expecting.
Vote brexit, lose your pension (for starters).
Scrapping automatic enrolment is hardly losing your pension....including sweeping tax cuts and deregulation on workers’ rights, scrapping automatic enrolment into pension schemes and ditching environmental regulations.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-bat...
Hardly the progressive response to brexit I think many would be expecting.
Vote brexit, lose your pension (for starters).
desolate said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Anyone can answer if they wish. Helicopter was saying we would be undercutting the EU. I'm wondering how so and what rights are for the chop.
OK - Sway was complaining that "workers rights" were preventing him from employing someone.I thought Helicopter was referring that, but I accept that given his posting history I am probably wrong.
I'd be curious to know what "rights" people like Sway want to change.
Helicopter123 said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Helicopter123 said:
Which rights would you wish to see removed?
I keep hearing about swathes of workers rights going the min we leave the EU. Do you know which is first on the chopping block ?...including sweeping tax cuts and deregulation on workers’ rights, scrapping automatic enrolment into pension schemes and ditching environmental regulations.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-bat...
Hardly the progressive response to brexit I think many would be expecting.
Vote brexit, lose your pension (for starters).
Hardly surprising given who posted the lie.
Helicopter123 said:
Which rights would you wish to see removed?
I will give you one, but it is not in the firms benefit so much as the worker's; compulsory holiday.Most of our staff do maximise their paid leave, but every year there are one or two who have to be forced to take the remainder of their annual leave before the year end. As our holiday year runs from the start of December, that means people having a last minute break, in the UK in October or November... not the best use of their time and it is not popular with them.
A good while back, before the latest rules came in, we'd simply pay people, at the end of each year, for any holiday not taken. Everyone was happy.
Helicopter123 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Helicopter123 said:
I think the UK is already very light on "workers rights" and can't see any huge benefit of undercutting the EU on what remains.
Quelle surprise.A bit more churn of people who aren't pulling their weight will see more opportunity for people who are out of work, and if they do a better job, then everyone's a winner.
I suspect you will disagree, and view the day you get a job in a large organisation as the day your life is essentially 'made'.
SpeckledJim said:
It should be a bit easier to replace the lazy and disruptive. because there are good people on the dole who deserve the chance to do a good job more than some 'unremovables' who choose not to do so, and instead sit, moribund, slowing us all down.
A bit more churn of people who aren't pulling their weight will see more opportunity for people who are out of work, and if they do a better job, then everyone's a winner.
I suspect you will disagree, and view the day you get a job in a large organisation as the day your life is essentially 'made'.
You can already remove the lazy and disruptive. A bit more churn of people who aren't pulling their weight will see more opportunity for people who are out of work, and if they do a better job, then everyone's a winner.
I suspect you will disagree, and view the day you get a job in a large organisation as the day your life is essentially 'made'.
Digga said:
I will give you one, but it is not in the firms benefit so much as the worker's; compulsory holiday.
Most of our staff do maximise their paid leave, but every year there are one or two who have to be forced to take the remainder of their annual leave before the year end. As our holiday year runs from the start of December, that means people having a last minute break, in the UK in October or November... not the best use of their time and it is not popular with them.
A good while back, before the latest rules came in, we'd simply pay people, at the end of each year, for any holiday not taken. Everyone was happy.
I am not sure that's an EU directive.Most of our staff do maximise their paid leave, but every year there are one or two who have to be forced to take the remainder of their annual leave before the year end. As our holiday year runs from the start of December, that means people having a last minute break, in the UK in October or November... not the best use of their time and it is not popular with them.
A good while back, before the latest rules came in, we'd simply pay people, at the end of each year, for any holiday not taken. Everyone was happy.
We certainly don't do that.
SpeckledJim said:
It should be a bit easier to replace the lazy and disruptive. because there are good people on the dole who deserve the chance to do a good job more than some 'unremovables' who choose not to do so, and instead sit, moribund, slowing us all down.
A bit more churn of people who aren't pulling their weight will see more opportunity for people who are out of work, and if they do a better job, then everyone's a winner.
I suspect you will disagree, and view the day you get a job in a large organisation as the day your life is essentially 'made'.
That's down to the organisation, not "worker's rights"A bit more churn of people who aren't pulling their weight will see more opportunity for people who are out of work, and if they do a better job, then everyone's a winner.
I suspect you will disagree, and view the day you get a job in a large organisation as the day your life is essentially 'made'.
Helicopter123 said:
That would be a matter for the UK government of the day BUT some of the ideas being put forward in cabinet as part of a 'shock and awe' deregulation plan to deal with the aftermath of a hard brexit are
...including sweeping tax cuts and deregulation on workers’ rights, scrapping automatic enrolment into pension schemes and ditching environmental regulations.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-bat...
Hardly the progressive response to brexit I think many would be expecting.
Vote brexit, lose your pension (for starters).
I think Sway is getting dragged in when it was me that posted the hypothetical example. As I predicted, the response was to argue over the details, whilst ignoring the wider point being made....including sweeping tax cuts and deregulation on workers’ rights, scrapping automatic enrolment into pension schemes and ditching environmental regulations.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-bat...
Hardly the progressive response to brexit I think many would be expecting.
Vote brexit, lose your pension (for starters).
Pensions is a fine example of the sort of "rights" being championed. As an employer, I have to set up a workplace pension scheme - and manage it on behalf of my employees. Why is that a burden on the employer? As an employee in the modern age, I'm likely to bounce between a number of different jobs and employers during my lifetime. Surely the obligation should be on me to ensure I have a working pension scheme? Ideally, the state should ensure this isn't a difficult thing for me to organise, and should do all it can to encourage me (or even oblige me) to take part in a scheme. Putting the burden onto the employer adds more 'friction' to the process of employing someone. It's funny how 'frictionless' is important only in specific cases.
Heli is wailing that people will have their pensions forcibly ripped from their poor, weak employee hands - when the wider question is who is responsible for providing for an individual in their old age? In Victorian times when you were born in the shade of the factory that would employ you until you died, sure, it made sense for the employer to be obliged to take care of their charges. But we don't live in Victorian times any more.
And the point is you don't lose your pension - no-one is stopping, or preventing pension schemes.
Edited by Tuna on Wednesday 26th September 12:12
Integroo said:
SpeckledJim said:
It should be a bit easier to replace the lazy and disruptive. because there are good people on the dole who deserve the chance to do a good job more than some 'unremovables' who choose not to do so, and instead sit, moribund, slowing us all down.
A bit more churn of people who aren't pulling their weight will see more opportunity for people who are out of work, and if they do a better job, then everyone's a winner.
I suspect you will disagree, and view the day you get a job in a large organisation as the day your life is essentially 'made'.
You can already remove the lazy and disruptive. A bit more churn of people who aren't pulling their weight will see more opportunity for people who are out of work, and if they do a better job, then everyone's a winner.
I suspect you will disagree, and view the day you get a job in a large organisation as the day your life is essentially 'made'.
If we saw more fluid movement between in work, out of work, and back into work, we'd find more people finding the job that's right for them, and more businesses finding staff that fit in their workplaces.
So many people don't like their jobs but are petrified of doing anything about it, who work (or don't) for a boss who doesn't rate them, but who can't find the energy to start the laborious and unpleasant process of moving them on.
If it was an easier process it would work well for businesses, for good staff, for good unemployed people, and in lots of cases even for the 'bad' staff, who ultimately end-up somewhere that suits them better.
I'm not calling for US-style 'hire at will' policies - I think they go too far.
Tuna said:
In Victorian times when you were born in the shade of the factory that would employ you until you died, sure, it made sense for the employer to be obliged to take care of their charges. But we don't live in Victorian times any more.
That's an interesting interpretation of Victorian employment practices.What "rights" are preventing you from employing someone for your project now?
SpeckledJim said:
I'd like it to be a bit easier. I'm not talking extremes, just shades.
If we saw more fluid movement between in work, out of work, and back into work, we'd find more people finding the job that's right for them, and more businesses finding staff that fit in their workplaces.
So many people don't like their jobs but are petrified of doing anything about it, who work (or don't) for a boss who doesn't rate them, but who can't find the energy to start the laborious and unpleasant process of moving them on.
If it was an easier process it would work well for businesses, for good staff, for good unemployed people, and in lots of cases even for the 'bad' staff, who ultimately end-up somewhere that suits them better.
I'm not calling for US-style 'hire at will' policies - I think they go too far.
I don't disagree that there are problems with employers being too scared of tribunals etc. to get rid of genuinely poor employees - but equally, employers tend to be the ones in positions of strength and it is the employee who may be unable to pay their bills if they suddenly lose their job, so they should be protected. In any event, the current rules only really kick in after two years so if you can't tell someone is a crap employee by then ... If we saw more fluid movement between in work, out of work, and back into work, we'd find more people finding the job that's right for them, and more businesses finding staff that fit in their workplaces.
So many people don't like their jobs but are petrified of doing anything about it, who work (or don't) for a boss who doesn't rate them, but who can't find the energy to start the laborious and unpleasant process of moving them on.
If it was an easier process it would work well for businesses, for good staff, for good unemployed people, and in lots of cases even for the 'bad' staff, who ultimately end-up somewhere that suits them better.
I'm not calling for US-style 'hire at will' policies - I think they go too far.
For the 'bad' staff, would they really end up somewhere that suits them better, or would they go to an interview be told 'you got let go at your last job you can't be great' and then they can't find work?
Digga said:
Helicopter123 said:
Which rights would you wish to see removed?
I will give you one, but it is not in the firms benefit so much as the worker's; compulsory holiday.Most of our staff do maximise their paid leave, but every year there are one or two who have to be forced to take the remainder of their annual leave before the year end. As our holiday year runs from the start of December, that means people having a last minute break, in the UK in October or November... not the best use of their time and it is not popular with them.
A good while back, before the latest rules came in, we'd simply pay people, at the end of each year, for any holiday not taken. Everyone was happy.
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