Are labour antisemitic?
Discussion
avinalarf said:
Derek ....Criticise the Israeli government all you wish.
The huge majority of Jews will welcome your views on the subject.
Try to make that criticsm constructive and contextual.
It's nice to know that you have " no beef " with Jews, as you so quaintly put it.
You see...Jews are Homo Sapiens,just like the rest of humanity, there are "good" Jews and "bad" Jews and ones in between.
They are not an homogenous group that think and behave in a similar way.
Derek...my comments are a bit tongue in cheek......I know from your previous posts on other subjects that you're a decent bloke.
I meant no criticism of Jews. I had a tea-stop with a lovely couple, the woman being sent from Germany after the Night of the Long Knives. Prescient family, none of whom survived the pogram. Whilst she was a bit bitter towards Germans, she had a lovely sense of humour. I once criticised her for having a print of Oedipus on her wall, due to his actions towards his parents. She shrugged. "He loved his mother" she said in her best Jewish accent. The huge majority of Jews will welcome your views on the subject.
Try to make that criticsm constructive and contextual.
It's nice to know that you have " no beef " with Jews, as you so quaintly put it.
You see...Jews are Homo Sapiens,just like the rest of humanity, there are "good" Jews and "bad" Jews and ones in between.
They are not an homogenous group that think and behave in a similar way.
Derek...my comments are a bit tongue in cheek......I know from your previous posts on other subjects that you're a decent bloke.
I agree with your statement about most Jews also being critical of some of the moves of Israel. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, just that many media outlets tend to conflate criticism of the country with anti-semitism.
The tacit support of anti-semitic comments by those involved int he labour party is a bit scary.
The Surveyor said:
avinalarf said:
The Surveyor said:
A good and interesting post.
One question though, why does the Jewish community feel more 'under siege' due to the ramblings of the opposition? I can understand those concerns coming forward 'if' Labour were in government, but they are just the opposition and have so far proved to be totally incapable of influencing the actions of the Government due to their multi-level incompetence.
Why 'under siege' now, under this Tory government?
Most Jews reluctantly accept latent antisemitsm as a fact of life.One question though, why does the Jewish community feel more 'under siege' due to the ramblings of the opposition? I can understand those concerns coming forward 'if' Labour were in government, but they are just the opposition and have so far proved to be totally incapable of influencing the actions of the Government due to their multi-level incompetence.
Why 'under siege' now, under this Tory government?
It is when that racism becomes overt and populist that they begin to get very concerned.
I do believe that one cannot walk in another man's shoes.
Whether a Jew, black, homosexual or any other section of society that is targeted by racism or phobia.
However empathetic and sincere one is you are not that person.
Don't worry, psi310398 has provided a helpful response.
Derek Smith said:
avinalarf said:
Derek ....Criticise the Israeli government all you wish.
The huge majority of Jews will welcome your views on the subject.
Try to make that criticsm constructive and contextual.
It's nice to know that you have " no beef " with Jews, as you so quaintly put it.
You see...Jews are Homo Sapiens,just like the rest of humanity, there are "good" Jews and "bad" Jews and ones in between.
They are not an homogenous group that think and behave in a similar way.
Derek...my comments are a bit tongue in cheek......I know from your previous posts on other subjects that you're a decent bloke.
I meant no criticism of Jews. I had a tea-stop with a lovely couple, the woman being sent from Germany after the Night of the Long Knives. Prescient family, none of whom survived the pogram. Whilst she was a bit bitter towards Germans, she had a lovely sense of humour. I once criticised her for having a print of Oedipus on her wall, due to his actions towards his parents. She shrugged. "He loved his mother" she said in her best Jewish accent. The huge majority of Jews will welcome your views on the subject.
Try to make that criticsm constructive and contextual.
It's nice to know that you have " no beef " with Jews, as you so quaintly put it.
You see...Jews are Homo Sapiens,just like the rest of humanity, there are "good" Jews and "bad" Jews and ones in between.
They are not an homogenous group that think and behave in a similar way.
Derek...my comments are a bit tongue in cheek......I know from your previous posts on other subjects that you're a decent bloke.
I agree with your statement about most Jews also being critical of some of the moves of Israel. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, just that many media outlets tend to conflate criticism of the country with anti-semitism.
The tacit support of anti-semitic comments by those involved int he labour party is a bit scary.
TooMany2cvs said:
Well, well, well. I always thought Max had managed to escape his father's shadow.
Forget his sexual shenanigans, he's doing his best to use the law to mask his, er, rather chequered past:https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/28/max-...
Nasty piece of work.
psi310398 said:
Forget his sexual shenanigans, he's doing his best to use the law to mask his, er, rather chequered past:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/28/max-...
Nasty piece of work.
Linked from that is https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/27/max-... which includes:https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/28/max-...
Nasty piece of work.
The Grauniad said:
Asked in the 2008 trial about his political activities as a young man, Mosley acknowledged that he was the election agent for Union Movement candidate Walter Hesketh in the 1961 byelection in Moss Side.
...
The election leaflet states that it was “published by Max Mosley”.
It includes the warning: “Protect your health. There is no medical check on immigration. Tuberculosis, VD and other terrible diseases like leprosy are on the increase. Coloured immigration threatens your children’s health.”
Any idea what his posting name here is?...
The election leaflet states that it was “published by Max Mosley”.
It includes the warning: “Protect your health. There is no medical check on immigration. Tuberculosis, VD and other terrible diseases like leprosy are on the increase. Coloured immigration threatens your children’s health.”
TooMany2cvs said:
psi310398 said:
Forget his sexual shenanigans, he's doing his best to use the law to mask his, er, rather chequered past:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/28/max-...
Nasty piece of work.
Linked from that is https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/27/max-... which includes:https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/28/max-...
Nasty piece of work.
The Grauniad said:
Asked in the 2008 trial about his political activities as a young man, Mosley acknowledged that he was the election agent for Union Movement candidate Walter Hesketh in the 1961 byelection in Moss Side.
...
The election leaflet states that it was “published by Max Mosley”.
It includes the warning: “Protect your health. There is no medical check on immigration. Tuberculosis, VD and other terrible diseases like leprosy are on the increase. Coloured immigration threatens your children’s health.”
Any idea what his posting name here is?...
The election leaflet states that it was “published by Max Mosley”.
It includes the warning: “Protect your health. There is no medical check on immigration. Tuberculosis, VD and other terrible diseases like leprosy are on the increase. Coloured immigration threatens your children’s health.”
Yes.
Corbyn has allowed the biggest rise in anti-semitism in the Labour party during my lifetime.
The Chakrabati enquiry was a joke - she ruined a brilliant career and reputation in a single stroke. Corbyn used her and trashed her.
Corbyn would not expel Livingstone from the party, no matter what, for years. Livingstone finally resigned, because Corbyn wouldn't do the decent thing and fire him.
Conversely, when Tim Farron was leader of the Liberal Democrats, a single Liberal Democrat MP had one anti-semitic rant, once, and Farron fired him, immediately. That's leadership. And it's what Corbyn should have done to Livingstone right at the beginning, if his claims that he's not anti-semitic had an ounce of truth in them.
Blair and Brown, whatever you think of their politics, would never have let this go down on their watch. Either of them would have chewed them own arm off before letting ant-semitism rise up in the party like this.
Labour's reputation is mud. The only thing that can bring them back now is a change, not only of leader, but of all those mixed up in this evil mess. David Milliband could do this. Not only is he Jewish, albeit non-observant, he has real leadership qualities. He would not tolerate any of this nonsense for a second. I hope he gives it a try. He is perhaps the only person strong enough to deal decisively with
Momentum and their malicious intimidation of decent, anti-discriminatory Labour MPs.
Corbyn has allowed the biggest rise in anti-semitism in the Labour party during my lifetime.
The Chakrabati enquiry was a joke - she ruined a brilliant career and reputation in a single stroke. Corbyn used her and trashed her.
Corbyn would not expel Livingstone from the party, no matter what, for years. Livingstone finally resigned, because Corbyn wouldn't do the decent thing and fire him.
Conversely, when Tim Farron was leader of the Liberal Democrats, a single Liberal Democrat MP had one anti-semitic rant, once, and Farron fired him, immediately. That's leadership. And it's what Corbyn should have done to Livingstone right at the beginning, if his claims that he's not anti-semitic had an ounce of truth in them.
Blair and Brown, whatever you think of their politics, would never have let this go down on their watch. Either of them would have chewed them own arm off before letting ant-semitism rise up in the party like this.
Labour's reputation is mud. The only thing that can bring them back now is a change, not only of leader, but of all those mixed up in this evil mess. David Milliband could do this. Not only is he Jewish, albeit non-observant, he has real leadership qualities. He would not tolerate any of this nonsense for a second. I hope he gives it a try. He is perhaps the only person strong enough to deal decisively with
Momentum and their malicious intimidation of decent, anti-discriminatory Labour MPs.
Edited by Johnny5hoods on Monday 30th July 16:39
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I heard someone make what I felt was a very valid point on LBC today.
It went along the lines of if Jeremy Corbyn was pals with some KKK members and frequently popped into a KKK meeting or invited his KKK chums around for dinner, all in the name of promoting peace mind you, and he had some other chums who said the slave trade wasn't such a big deal and actually there might not have been a slave trade, there would be fking uproar and rightly so.
Why is it different when it's Hamas and similar and it's Jews rather than black people?
And to take that analogy a step further how about if Corbyn had appeared on an OFCOM censured TV channel calling a KKK member who had received 7 life sentences for assisting in terrorist murders "brother" whilst claiming that the Africans brought the slave trade on themselves?It went along the lines of if Jeremy Corbyn was pals with some KKK members and frequently popped into a KKK meeting or invited his KKK chums around for dinner, all in the name of promoting peace mind you, and he had some other chums who said the slave trade wasn't such a big deal and actually there might not have been a slave trade, there would be f
king uproar and rightly so.Why is it different when it's Hamas and similar and it's Jews rather than black people?
https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/corbyn-suspec...
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/th...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW2r3ZmVcRM
Johnny5hoods said:
Conversely, when Tim Farron was leader of the Liberal Democrats, a single Liberal Democrat MP had one anti-semitic rant, once, and Farron fired him, immediately. That's leadership.
Indeed - but then look at Farron's utter mess over trying to square his religious beliefs and not being homophobic.Johnny5hoods said:
And it's what Corbyn should have done to Livingstone right at the beginning, if his claims that he's not anti-semitic had an ounce of truth in them.
Blair and Brown, whatever you think of their politics, would never have let this go down on their watch.
Livingstone's been coming out with his semi-regular Hitler/Nazi analogies since at least 2005.Blair and Brown, whatever you think of their politics, would never have let this go down on their watch.
avinalarf said:
TooMany2cvs said:
psi310398 said:
Forget his sexual shenanigans, he's doing his best to use the law to mask his, er, rather chequered past:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/28/max-...
Nasty piece of work.
Linked from that is https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/27/max-... which includes:https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/28/max-...
Nasty piece of work.
The Grauniad said:
Asked in the 2008 trial about his political activities as a young man, Mosley acknowledged that he was the election agent for Union Movement candidate Walter Hesketh in the 1961 byelection in Moss Side.
...
The election leaflet states that it was “published by Max Mosley”.
It includes the warning: “Protect your health. There is no medical check on immigration. Tuberculosis, VD and other terrible diseases like leprosy are on the increase. Coloured immigration threatens your children’s health.”
Any idea what his posting name here is?...
The election leaflet states that it was “published by Max Mosley”.
It includes the warning: “Protect your health. There is no medical check on immigration. Tuberculosis, VD and other terrible diseases like leprosy are on the increase. Coloured immigration threatens your children’s health.”
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
"the rate of TB in the non-UK born population in 2016 was 49.4 per 100,000, compared with 51.3 per 100,000 in 2015, and remained 15 times higher than in the UK born population, with 74% of TB cases born abroad "
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