Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)

[RichB]

Johnnytheboy said:

Has Comrade Corbyn offered the soap dodgers clogging up central London and protesting against the tube yet? If not it's only a matter of time surely.

Offered them what?

[sas62]

edh said:

Amazingly enough, there is a level of co-ordination on votes like these - who'd have thought it eh?

As a CLP member you receive a voting slip to chose 4 out of 17 topics. You're then told not to bother voting for 4 of them in particular because another group will be doing that.

Why then did 150,000 CLP members vote for Brexit which came in 5th place on their ballot if it was already covered by the TU vote?

It doesn't make any sense.

Also looking at the labour party members tweets when the ballot results were announced, it didn't make sense to them either.

[edh]

sas62 said:

edh said:

Amazingly enough, there is a level of co-ordination on votes like these - who'd have thought it eh?

As a CLP member you receive a voting slip to chose 4 out of 17 topics. You're then told not to bother voting for 4 of them in particular because another group will be doing that.

Why then did 150,000 CLP members vote for Brexit which came in 5th place on their ballot if it was already covered by the TU vote?

It doesn't make any sense.

Also looking at the labour party members tweets when the ballot results were announced, it didn't make sense to them either.

Read this
https://www.leftfutures.org/2012/09/how-votes-work...

btw it wasn't 150000 CLP members voting, it's voting by delegates at the conference on behalf of CLP's (no doubt all Momentum stooges )

[Johnnytheboy]

RichB said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Has Comrade Corbyn offered the soap dodgers clogging up central London and protesting against the tube yet? If not it's only a matter of time surely.

Offered them what?

Oh sorry trying to multitask on a phone with incredible broken screen.

Offer them his support.

[jakesmith]

edh said:

Brexit was already selected by the Affiliates - as you have now indicated. From what I've read, the CLP avoided voting for the same topics as they were already guaranteed to be on the list. if they had voted for Brexit as well, there would have been fewer debates. As for the NHS - i can't answer on behalf of the CLP's, but maybe as Labour already has settled policy on the NHS, and it was covered in speeches and seminars, it didn't rank so high?

I don't see anything that backs up the claim that it was a conference completely dominated by the Palestine matter.

Edh you are just mirroring Corbyn’s approach to the whole issue by twisting and contorting words. The issue is plain to see as most on here have and your defence only serves to highlight the disgraceful situation

You are seeking to minimise the point by saying the conference wasn’t dominated by the issue. It was still high up on a roster completely absent of any other international issues.

The issue shouldn’t have been on there at all at a time of apparent national crisis. The fact that it had so many more votes for ‘debate’ (What a joke the use of that word is), than social care shows what the priorities of the actual ‘nasty party’ are and how little they truely care for the most vulnerable in society, contrary to Corbyn’s deceitful and disingenuous posturing

You are trying to characterise me as a troll on this forum as an attempt to discredit my point but your words on this topic over the last day or so and the numerous responses from others only serve to show how futule your ongoing attempt to defend Corbyn and his rabble of nasty little racists is.

[AJL308]

sas62 said:

Below are the results of this years conference ballot to prioritise the topics they wanted to debate at National CLP conference.

Housing 297,032
Schools System 233,883
Justice for the Windrush generation 212,612
Palestine 188,019
Brexit 149,172
The NHS 121,487
Welfare System 89,861
Climate Change and Fracking 72,890
Local Government Funding 68,473
Social Care 64,569

Only the top 4 topics would be debated. So Windrush and Palestine made it onto their priority list for debate and they failed to include Brexit, the NHS, Welfare or Social Care.

This says a lot about the Labour party but not a lot good, as far as I can see. They seem to have some pretty messed up priorities;

The first two I don't have an issue with, both important topics which have genuine and significant effects on the Country. However - The Windrush Generation...why? I mean what benefit (in terms of the the future governing and administration of the UK and the direction it should take over the next few years should we see a Labour government in office) does discussing this have? Other than than as a back slapping, virtue signalling exercise about something which is in the past it has no point. Yet 212,612 people voted to discuss it. That's quite bizarre.

Palestine; as has been said, what possible point is there in discussing this? It has absolutely sod all effect on anyone's life in the UK. Nearly 190,000 people voted to discuss this. Why and what could possibly be resolved which would make this Country better? Why not discuss North Korea?

Less than 150,000 votes were cast (half the number of the top issue) to discuss what is obviously and clearly the single most important and wide-ranging constitutional issue since at least 1939 or the 1707 Act of Union or even the Bill of Rights in 1689.

Moving down the list and without going on, I'm sure you get my drift. Issues which are of huge social and constitutional importance but the Labour party seems not to care about them and appears far more interested in making "points of principle" rather than actually engaging in the job of opposition or acting like a credible party of government.

Utter Muppets.

[Thorodin]

There is a lot of naivety about accreditation of subjects for discussion at Trades Union and the Labour party 'conferences' (in commas because they are far from what most would describer as conferences). Having had experience of those events as a delegate some years ago my eyes were opened. All movements are presented for accreditation in advance and whatever the membership want discussed and by whom is secondary to what the officers want. The whole thing is choreographed and the outcome decided beforehand. Just like the Minutes at branch level.

[ape x]

'solving' the Israeli / Palestine issue seems pretty high up on Trump and America's list too...along with many other international situations.
Not sure why suddenly us westerners meddling and getting bogged down with other countries problems whilst ignoring our own is such shock and horror....

[AstonZagato]

When I look at this sort of thing, I realise a number of things.

1. I would be embarrassed to be associated with the Labour Party.
2. I'm sure other political parties are no different in terms of being utterly detached from the reality of the average person in the UK
3. I have therefore no desire to get involved in party politics
4. Given that our politicians have to work within and appease such feckwittery, it explains how we have come to have the morons that inhabit the Palace of Westminster.
5. I despair for our future

AJL308 said:

sas62 said:

Below are the results of this years conference ballot to prioritise the topics they wanted to debate at National CLP conference.

Housing 297,032
Schools System 233,883
Justice for the Windrush generation 212,612
Palestine 188,019
Brexit 149,172
The NHS 121,487
Welfare System 89,861
Climate Change and Fracking 72,890
Local Government Funding 68,473
Social Care 64,569

Only the top 4 topics would be debated. So Windrush and Palestine made it onto their priority list for debate and they failed to include Brexit, the NHS, Welfare or Social Care.

This says a lot about the Labour party but not a lot good, as far as I can see. They seem to have some pretty messed up priorities;

The first two I don't have an issue with, both important topics which have genuine and significant effects on the Country. However - The Windrush Generation...why? I mean what benefit (in terms of the the future governing and administration of the UK and the direction it should take over the next few years should we see a Labour government in office) does discussing this have? Other than than as a back slapping, virtue signalling exercise about something which is in the past it has no point. Yet 212,612 people voted to discuss it. That's quite bizarre.

Palestine; as has been said, what possible point is there in discussing this? It has absolutely sod all effect on anyone's life in the UK. Nearly 190,000 people voted to discuss this. Why and what could possibly be resolved which would make this Country better? Why not discuss North Korea?

Less than 150,000 votes were cast (half the number of the top issue) to discuss what is obviously and clearly the single most important and wide-ranging constitutional issue since at least 1939 or the 1707 Act of Union or even the Bill of Rights in 1689.

Moving down the list and without going on, I'm sure you get my drift. Issues which are of huge social and constitutional importance but the Labour party seems not to care about them and appears far more interested in making "points of principle" rather than actually engaging in the job of opposition or acting like a credible party of government.

Utter Muppets.

Thorodin said:

There is a lot of naivety about accreditation of subjects for discussion at Trades Union and the Labour party 'conferences' (in commas because they are far from what most would describer as conferences). Having had experience of those events as a delegate some years ago my eyes were opened. All movements are presented for accreditation in advance and whatever the membership want discussed and by whom is secondary to what the officers want. The whole thing is choreographed and the outcome decided beforehand. Just like the Minutes at branch level.

[biggbn]

I briefly contributed to this thread but rapidly realised I was wasting my time. Views are firmly entrenched and most posters only produce 'facts' to validate their own positions without opening their minds to the possibility of intelligent debate. If anyone tries to engage in said debate they are rapidly shut down with crys of troll, Leftie, Marxist or anything else to diminutize their opinion. It's a well used technique, discredit any opposing view by using knee jerk negative antiquated language understood by everyone. The left call the right fascists, the right call the left communists and never the Twain shall meet.

Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 17th April 21:16

[jakesmith]

ape x said:

'solving' the Israeli / Palestine issue seems pretty high up on Trump and America's list too...along with many other international situations.
Not sure why suddenly us westerners meddling and getting bogged down with other countries problems whilst ignoring our own is such shock and horror....

Do you think there is any equivalency between Trumps / America’s ability to influence Israel, and the UK’s opposition party conference? It’s patently a ridiculous comparison.

In my opinion Labour should be focusing on issues that are relevant and of concern to the British public in order to form an effective opposition to the dreadful Conservatives, and maybe even try to win an election. Whilst they fixate on Israel, millions of their core and potential float voters will continue to see them as irrelevant and with an extremist leader who should be kept out of power.

[irocfan]

biggbn said:

I briefly contributed to this thread but rapidly realised I was wasting my time. Views are firmly entrenched and most posters only produce 'facts' to validate their own positions without opening their minds to the possibility of intelligent debate. If anyone tries to engage in said debate they are rapidly shut down with crys of troll, Leftie, Marxist or anything else to diminutize their opinion. It's a well used technique, discredit any opposing view by using knee jerk negative antiquated language understood by everyone. The left call the right fascists, the right call the left communists and never the Twain shall meet.

Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 17th April 21:16

to be fair chap it's not all right vs left on here. Your posts, by and large, aren't objectionable leftist bks like some post on here. I suspect that's because you want to engage and discuss rather than engage in cheap points scoring by calling other posters "waaaycist" or "peeedos" or indeed tommy robinson fans.

[anonymous-user]

biggbn said:

The left call the right fascists, the right call the left communists and never the Twain shall meet.

Usually the left don't actually admit to being Communists though.

[ape x]

jakesmith said:

Do you think there is any equivalency between Trumps / America’s ability to influence Israel, and the UK’s opposition party conference? It’s patently a ridiculous comparison.

In my opinion Labour should be focusing on issues that are relevant and of concern to the British public in order to form an effective opposition to the dreadful Conservatives, and maybe even try to win an election. Whilst they fixate on Israel, millions of their core and potential float voters will continue to see them as irrelevant and with an extremist leader who should be kept out of power.

And that is democracy.... They set out their stall and if people like it they vote for it... If people are passionate about something enough then so be it.
People were passionate enough about leaving the EU and as much as I am aware the brexiteers ( of which I am one) get pretty cut up when they get told they made a mistake etc etc ...
I think there are more pressing things than brexit but it's taken hold of politics and about destroyed it..... ( Which is why I voted to leave in the first place ...)

If people are passionate about Palestine and angry about the killing of children by the Israeli government, then that is there passion same as some people's passion was the leave the EU...or passion for whatever floats their boat... You can't ignore that people are as passionate about stuff you hate as much as stuff you like...

[Get Karter]

biggbn said:

I briefly contributed to this thread but rapidly realised I was wasting my time. Views are firmly entrenched and most posters only produce 'facts' to validate their own positions without opening their minds to the possibility of intelligent debate.

Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 17th April 21:16

Just like Parliament!
Except they get paid to waste time doing it every day.

[Sparkyhd]

biggbn said:

I briefly contributed to this thread but rapidly realised I was wasting my time. Views are firmly entrenched and most posters only produce 'facts' to validate their own positions without opening their minds to the possibility of intelligent debate. If anyone tries to engage in said debate they are rapidly shut down with crys of troll, Leftie, Marxist or anything else to diminutize their opinion. It's a well used technique, discredit any opposing view by using knee jerk negative antiquated language understood by everyone. The left call the right fascists, the right call the left communists and never the Twain shall meet.

Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 17th April 21:16

I've just bought this to try and gain a better understanding

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0141039167/ref=cm_sw_r...

[biggbn]

Sparkyhd said:

I've just bought this to try and gain a better understanding

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0141039167/ref=cm_sw_r...

Thanks man will give that a go. Currently reading slavoj zijec the courage of hopelessness, has some scary parrallels between the mess in Greece and brexit. He's a hard read sometimes but always entertaining

[ape x]

Sparkyhd said:

I've just bought this to try and gain a better understanding

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0141039167/ref=cm_sw_r...

Indeed, until you can accept that the people doing what you perceive is the 'bad' , righteously believe they are doing good can you actually try to move forward.
Hitler believed what he was doing was right ...
So just saying "evil" doesn't solve the problems....
Terrorists do not call themselves terrorists...

[jakesmith]

ape x said:

And that is democracy.... They set out their stall and if people like it they vote for it... If people are passionate about something enough then so be it.
People were passionate enough about leaving the EU and as much as I am aware the brexiteers ( of which I am one) get pretty cut up when they get told they made a mistake etc etc ...
I think there are more pressing things than brexit but it's taken hold of politics and about destroyed it..... ( Which is why I voted to leave in the first place ...)

If people are passionate about Palestine and angry about the killing of children by the Israeli government, then that is there passion same as some people's passion was the leave the EU...or passion for whatever floats their boat... You can't ignore that people are as passionate about stuff you hate as much as stuff you like...

This is honestly a disorganised, contradictory, and confused reply. Attempting to evoque emotion with talk of poor children, to divert from the simple question of why fixate on Israel.

Same tactic as used by W Bush to bring in the oppressively intrusive ‘patriot act’ after 9/11

[ape x]

jakesmith said:

This is honestly a disorganised, contradictory, and confused reply. Attempting to evoque emotion with talk of poor children, to divert from the simple question of why fixate on Israel.

Same tactic as used by W Bush to bring in the oppressively intrusive ‘patriot act’ after 9/11

Well no, it is a fact that the Israeli gov have killed children and they treat Palestinian people like st... This is the government, not the people... Why is it so hard to separate the two? We seem able to manage it perfectly well here in the UK ....
If I critize the Tories I am not a traitor to the UK am I??