Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. (Vol 5)

[wc98]

Coolbanana said:

I wouldn't worry about the PH Tin Foilists, they will be dragged wailing and whinging into future legislation. 'Debating' with them is like trying to reason with those kids at school who prefer to sit at the back lighting each others farts than allow themselves to be educated; the same ones who think they actually become 'wiser' academically simply by living longer, without a need for actual education.

Wind them up, but debate? Nah, they can't be helped.

as opposed to knowing you are right because you watched a documentary and listen to news headlines ? how much reading have you done on the subject?

if you genuinely believe a relatively new multidisciplinary subject such as climate science has every physical process that controls the planets climate worked out well enough to know what that climate will be doing in ten to a hundred years from now then i really doubt you have ever questioned much of anything.

as for winding people up,given some of your recent posts on here i would be surprised if you had the ability to wind a clock up

[WhatHappenedThere]

When you say man made - does that include the removal of the forests that counter the CO2 ?
Or are you solely focusing on the CO2 pumped out ?

[PRTVR]

Chatting to an engineer friend, the subject of universities came up, he explained how he thinks that they in certain subjects it has lost its way, the peer review process is broken,
Here is a link to what he was on about.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kVk9a5Jcd1k
The same problems I believe appears to affect the climate sciences, if you look at the peer reviewed papers concerning the "Pause" that were passed even though there was no pause one should question the reliability of the system.

[wc98]

WhatHappenedThere said:

When you say man made - does that include the removal of the forests that counter the CO2 ?
Or are you solely focusing on the CO2 pumped out ?

for some reason many of the changes man has made to the planet get overlooked and co2 and it's tiny effect (posited to be enhanced up to three fold by increased levels of water vapour, the greenhouse gas that does all the heavy lifting, in some sort of runaway positive feedback that hasn't occurred with similar levels of co2 in the past) is the bogeyman.

for me water extraction, land use change in farming,genuine pollution, waste dumping (though i have read the long term effect of plastics in the oceans might not be as big a problem as first thought due to microbes eating the stuff) over fishing, the removal of diverse forests to make way for palm oil plantations ,turning ancient forest into wood pellets for burning in biomass plants are all contributors to the anthropogenic component of climate change that can actually be documented and addressed.

so far i haven't seen anything directly attributable to the co2 we have pumped into the atmosphere so continue to wonder why so much money is spent on what appears to be chasing a ghost when there are issues that could be directly addressed right now.

[WhatHappenedThere]

So man made / actions then ?

[wc98]

PRTVR said:

Chatting to an engineer friend, the subject of universities came up, he explained how he thinks that they in certain subjects it has lost its way, the peer review process is broken,
Here is a link to what he was on about.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kVk9a5Jcd1k
The same problems I believe appears to affect the climate sciences, if you look at the peer reviewed papers concerning the "Pause" that were passed even though there was no pause one should question the reliability of the system.

thanks for the link , i can think of at least one climate related paper i actually thought was a hoax, unfortunately it turned out to be a serious paper. one of the comments under the video you linked is mind blowing if true.

"The "grievance studies" rubbish has definitely seeped into education. I'm studying to be a maths/science teacher. Yet, I'm taught by some postmodern education professors that teaching is inherently oppressive to children/minorities and instead, teachers should be guides as students create their own knowledge (regardless of whether that knowledge is true), because there is no truth, only power structures in which the most powerful group decides what is true. sigh"

[WhatHappenedThere]

1. snowflake

[PRTVR]

wc98 said:

PRTVR said:

Chatting to an engineer friend, the subject of universities came up, he explained how he thinks that they in certain subjects it has lost its way, the peer review process is broken,
Here is a link to what he was on about.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kVk9a5Jcd1k
The same problems I believe appears to affect the climate sciences, if you look at the peer reviewed papers concerning the "Pause" that were passed even though there was no pause one should question the reliability of the system.

thanks for the link , i can think of at least one climate related paper i actually thought was a hoax, unfortunately it turned out to be a serious paper. one of the comments under the video you linked is mind blowing if true.

"The "grievance studies" rubbish has definitely seeped into education. I'm studying to be a maths/science teacher. Yet, I'm taught by some postmodern education professors that teaching is inherently oppressive to children/minorities and instead, teachers should be guides as students create their own knowledge (regardless of whether that knowledge is true), because there is no truth, only power structures in which the most powerful group decides what is true. sigh?"

The system appears self perpetuating, students are taught how to think and go on to pass the same ideas on to future generations, no chance of independent thought.

[motco]

Piers Corbyn wades in with his views here

[Diderot]

WhatHappenedThere said:

When you say man made - does that include the removal of the forests that counter the CO2 ?
Or are you solely focusing on the CO2 pumped out ?

Don’t worry they found a few billion trees down the back of sofa a few years back.

[robinessex]

Greta Thunberg: Teen tells UK politicians 'listen to climate scientists'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48017083

A teenage climate change activist has urged British politicians to "listen to the scientists" on climate change.
Greta Thunberg, 16, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that she did not expect to change their minds single-handedly, saying: "We need to do that together."
The Swedish teenager, who inspired the school climate strikes movement, is expected to meet party leaders later.
She also praised the work of Extinction Rebellion, as climate change protests continued into their second week......continues

At a TED talk In November 2018, Thunberg said she first heard about climate change at the age of eight, but couldn't understand why so little was being done about it. At age 11, she became depressed and stopped talking. Later on she was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome, obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD), and selective mutism. She added that selective mutism meant she only talked when she needed to and that 'now is one of those moments'; and that being on the 'spectrum' was an advantage 'as almost everything is black or white'.

No, don't. Use some common sense and scepticism instead. CC isn't for activists/protestors to decide. They mostly haven't a clue about it.

Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 23 April 08:20

[robinessex]

Extinction Rebellion: How might ministers win over the protesters?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48015293

Protests by Extinction Rebellion's seemingly inexhaustible army of activists made plenty of headlines last week.
They say politicians are out of touch with climate reality. But what do they want, and can ministers realistically make it happen?
Let's consider XR's three core demands: for the government to "tell the truth about climate change"; to create a citizens' assembly to oversee progress; and to reduce carbon emissions to zero by 2025.

1 If Mrs May regularly referred to a "climate crisis" or "climate emergency", that might fill their wish that the government should "tell the truth".
2 A citizens' assembly looks unlikely, especially during the current constitutional mayhem of Brexit.
3 And the third objective of cutting CO2 emissions to almost zero by 2025 is surely unachievable.

So, if not all this, then what?

This weekend, I asked environmentalists on Twitter for their suggestions about what ministers can do to show XR they mean business.
Here - in no particular order - is my summary of some of the responses, with my own micro-analysis along the way...................continues

What follows is the best list of complete bks I've seen for a long while.

[motco]

Gordon Brown repeatedly used the mantra "dangerous climate-change" - that addresses the 'truth'
We have a citizens' assembly and have had for centuries. It's called the House of Commons.
If the massed ranks of XR all held their breath for an hour the crisis would be greatly reduced.

[Terminator X]

To those with faith in the "science" (a) what level of CO2 do you think is the "correct" level and why plus (b) do you honestly believe that if we could somehow persuade Big Business + China to sort themselves out re CO2 production then climate change would simply stop and/or go back to some other "trend" presumably that you'd be happy with?

TX.

[wc98]

Terminator X said:

To those with faith in the "science" (a) what level of CO2 do you think is the "correct" level and why plus (b) do you honestly believe that if we could somehow persuade Big Business + China to sort themselves out re CO2 production then climate change would simply stop and/or go back to some other "trend" presumably that you'd be happy with?

TX.

at the rate the human race is disappearing up its own arse i think about 10 ppm should sort out all the problems

[WhatHappenedThere]

Terminator X said:

To those with faith in the "science" (a) what level of CO2 do you think is the "correct" level and why plus (b) do you honestly believe that if we could somehow persuade Big Business + China to sort themselves out re CO2 production then climate change would simply stop and/or go back to some other "trend" presumably that you'd be happy with?

TX.

Why do you say that ?

You are not aware of what China is doing to change its Energy demands ?
What do you understand to be the problem ?

[robinessex]

Climate change – the fake news from Attenborough

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/climate-change...

[anonymous-user]

robinessex said:

Climate change – the fake news from Attenborough

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/climate-change...

Yet another obsessive anti BBC rant but this time from “conservative women”

You’re really not well robinessex.

[motco]

El stovey said:

robinessex said:

Climate change – the fake news from Attenborough

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/climate-change...

Yet another obsessive anti BBC rant but this time from “conservative women”

You’re really not well robinessex.

Unlike Attenborough et al apparently supported by evidence.

[Diderot]

El stovey said:

robinessex said:

Climate change – the fake news from Attenborough

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/climate-change...

Yet another obsessive anti BBC rant but this time from “conservative women”

You’re really not well robinessex.

Still committing crimes against the climate Stovey? You really are a hypocrite.

Remember the loons are coming after you next.