How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
Tuna said:
I find myself asking why we fare fairly badly at building new and innovative businesses. The US and China are racing ahead in innovative technology. We don't have an EU version of Facebook, Google, Tesla, DJI, GoPro, Amazon, Uber, Alibaba, Ebay, Banggood... it's quite a long list. If you look at the EU's response to these big companies, it's almost wholly negative. Their first reaction is to try to preserve the old-guard, then to force businesses to await regulation, then to try to enforce competition in industries that are barely established.
Facebook = technically Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram (albeit yes they're owned by Facebook) = why would there be an EU competitor when the world uses Facebook?Google = so popular and massive that they're a verb now. To google something is to search for it. But there's still Bing, Yahoo, etc but again, why would there be an EU competitor?
Tesla = compete with every other car manufacturer, not just those that make electric vehicles.
Had to Google DJI and it appears they're a drone manufacturer. Given most things of that nature are made in China why would there be an EU competitor?
GoPro = tonnes of companies making small, easy to use cameras. Most made in China again, what would constitute an EU competitor and wouldn't they just outsource production to China too?
Amazon = plenty of companies in the e-commerce industry but Amazon are big and successful for a reason. I'm sure there are some companies are based in the EU too
Same story for the other companies you mentioned.
They sprung up and they got successful. I'm sure there are companies in Europe and outside of Europe that cater to the same markets but they're very odd examples to have a go at the EU for wouldn't you say?
We all know that Silicon Valley is the place for big tech companies and we know that China is the place to manufacture everything (or at least nearly everything). I don't see how that's the EU's fault?
And in every sector, the old guard will protect themselves, independent of where they are based in the world. All those companies you mentioned won't last forever and they'll all take protective measures to keep themselves on top. That's just business.
digimeistter said:
Coolbanana said:
Utterly gormless is a better description 
A pathetic example of Leaver's incorrectly interpreting how most Remainer's think and showing extreme ignorance in the process.
But do carry on with your moronic thought processes, it is amusing to witness
I would bow out now if I were you. A pathetic example of Leaver's incorrectly interpreting how most Remainer's think and showing extreme ignorance in the process.
But do carry on with your moronic thought processes, it is amusing to witness
I expected better
Coolbanana said:
Crackie said:
best post on a Brexit thread for a very long time.A pathetic example of Leaver's incorrectly interpreting how most Remainer's think and showing extreme ignorance in the process.
But do carry on with your moronic thought processes, it is amusing to witness.
Love the passive aggressive smiley btw.
F1GTRUeno said:
Facebook = technically Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram (albeit yes they're owned by Facebook) = why would there be an EU competitor when the world uses Facebook?
The world didn't always use Facebook, it originated as a competitor to Myspace.The point is, why on earth did no EU company fill these niches in the first place?
don'tbesilly said:
You seem to have clipped the whole conversation, so I've put it back together, context is everything.
Firstly you've called Daniel Hannan a liar.
Can you provide any evidence of such a slur, other than the linked article written by Jack Schickler, who most would agree has a conflict of interest based on the above, and also a heavy dose of unbridled bias based on the above.
Can you answer the question Tuna asked which prompted my response.
When you've done the above and gathered the answers come back, and post your answers and I'll answer your question,
Does that sound fair?
I have provided some evidence. You attacked the person providing the evidence not the evidence. So are you going to supply some evidence he is telling the truth? Firstly you've called Daniel Hannan a liar.
Can you provide any evidence of such a slur, other than the linked article written by Jack Schickler, who most would agree has a conflict of interest based on the above, and also a heavy dose of unbridled bias based on the above.
Can you answer the question Tuna asked which prompted my response.
When you've done the above and gathered the answers come back, and post your answers and I'll answer your question,
Does that sound fair?
Coolbanana said:
Crackie said:
best post on a Brexit thread for a very long time.A pathetic example of Leaver's incorrectly interpreting how most Remainer's think and showing extreme ignorance in the process.
But do carry on with your moronic thought processes, it is amusing to witness.
Exactly. Utterly weird.gooner1 said:
Piha said:
And in doing so, he is investing in a wealthy country that is moving closer to the EU.
And obviously not investing his money in post Brexit UK. It's his money, so it's his choice but its hardly a vote of confidence in a post Brexit UK!
The UK has the supply chains already in place and car manufacturing is already a big mature industry in the UK. Therefore it would seem a good place to invest in a new car plant unless there were big unfavourable changes coming to the UK economy.
Blue passports though (Made in France mind).
Are you willing to pay more for UK made passports? And obviously not investing his money in post Brexit UK. It's his money, so it's his choice but its hardly a vote of confidence in a post Brexit UK!
The UK has the supply chains already in place and car manufacturing is already a big mature industry in the UK. Therefore it would seem a good place to invest in a new car plant unless there were big unfavourable changes coming to the UK economy.
Blue passports though (Made in France mind).
Or is it you that is afraid of foreigners, you appear to be against stuff being made abroad.
I have spent a lot of time living and working outside the UK and I'm always happy to support the local economy wherever I am. It would also be fair to have called me a foreigner in the past, so I don't think I'm scared of foreigners at all. Are you scared of people that look a little different to you?
Additionally, I try not to use companies that avoid paying tax and I'm happy to buy at a slightly higher price if it benefits my local area. It's called choice and when used wisely choice can benefit many.
Dr Jekyll said:
F1GTRUeno said:
Facebook = technically Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram (albeit yes they're owned by Facebook) = why would there be an EU competitor when the world uses Facebook?
The world didn't always use Facebook, it originated as a competitor to Myspace.The point is, why on earth did no EU company fill these niches in the first place?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/27/tec...
As to why there are problems in Europe: it’s complex, but this article does a good job looking at it in depth:
https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/13/why-europe-lags...
The TL;DR version: most European start ups can’t get access to big funds in latter stage funding, growth stalls, and they’ll eventually fail or be subsumed. There is a strong line of thought that poor broadband, lack of critical mass and general lower growth in the EU probably means that the big funds don’t see Europe as a happy hunting ground.
As to who you blame for that state of affairs.. well..
It’s interesting to note that London seems to be bucking that trend especially in fintech: 36 UK billion $ companies (unicorns) have been created in the capital since 1990, worth a combined $132bn, more than double that of the nearest contender, Germany. Of those 15 are tech start ups, and 6 fintech.
Ridgemont said:
Well these help:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/27/tec...
As to why there are problems in Europe: it’s complex, but this article does a good job looking at it in depth:
https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/13/why-europe-lags...
The TL;DR version: most European start ups can’t get access to big funds in latter stage funding, growth stalls, and they’ll eventually fail or be subsumed. There is a strong line of thought that poor broadband, lack of critical mass and general lower growth in the EU probably means that the big funds don’t see Europe as a happy hunting ground.
As to who you blame for that state of affairs.. well..
It’s interesting to note that London seems to be bucking that trend especially in fintech: 36 UK billion $ companies (unicorns) have been created in the capital since 1990, worth a combined $132bn, more than double that of the nearest contender, Germany. Of those 15 are tech start ups, and 6 fintech.
The Swedes and the Baltics are another hotspot. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/27/tec...
As to why there are problems in Europe: it’s complex, but this article does a good job looking at it in depth:
https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/13/why-europe-lags...
The TL;DR version: most European start ups can’t get access to big funds in latter stage funding, growth stalls, and they’ll eventually fail or be subsumed. There is a strong line of thought that poor broadband, lack of critical mass and general lower growth in the EU probably means that the big funds don’t see Europe as a happy hunting ground.
As to who you blame for that state of affairs.. well..
It’s interesting to note that London seems to be bucking that trend especially in fintech: 36 UK billion $ companies (unicorns) have been created in the capital since 1990, worth a combined $132bn, more than double that of the nearest contender, Germany. Of those 15 are tech start ups, and 6 fintech.
But the basic point remains, none of the really successful apps has originated in the EU with possible exception of Spotify.
don'tbesilly said:
Tuna said:
Mrr T said:
Your right nothing to see there.
https://infacts.org/eu-not-paying-uk-firms-outsour...
Remember the claim was made by a politician and should be assumed to be a lie unless you can find an independent source.
https://infacts.org/eu-not-paying-uk-firms-outsour...
Remember the claim was made by a politician and should be assumed to be a lie unless you can find an independent source.
infacts said:
That is on top of the £13 billion in EU structural and investment funds that we are due to receive over the current 7-year budget period. In addition, we are the second-largest recipient of EU research funds, which benefit companies like Ford, Marks & Spencer and JLR.
Remind me again where that money the EU 'gives' us comes from?There are lies, and there are lies.
Jack Schickler is a journalist at InFacts.
He previously worked as a policy advisor at HM Treasury and the UK Representation to the EU,
and as a speechwriter to Neelie Kroes at the European Commission.
In Facts - banner on their website STOP BREXIT, link on their website - https://www.peoples-vote.uk/
Zero conflict of interest, zero bias.
Mrr T said:
So are the facts in the link about the EIB loan to Ford correct or incorrect?
Mrr T said:
don'tbesilly said:
You seem to have clipped the whole conversation, so I've put it back together, context is everything.
Firstly you've called Daniel Hannan a liar.
Can you provide any evidence of such a slur, other than the linked article written by Jack Schickler, who most would agree has a conflict of interest based on the above, and also a heavy dose of unbridled bias based on the above.
Can you answer the question Tuna asked which prompted my response.
When you've done the above and gathered the answers come back, and post your answers and I'll answer your question,
Does that sound fair?
I have provided some evidence. You attacked the person providing the evidence not the evidence. So are you going to supply some evidence he is telling the truth? Firstly you've called Daniel Hannan a liar.
Can you provide any evidence of such a slur, other than the linked article written by Jack Schickler, who most would agree has a conflict of interest based on the above, and also a heavy dose of unbridled bias based on the above.
Can you answer the question Tuna asked which prompted my response.
When you've done the above and gathered the answers come back, and post your answers and I'll answer your question,
Does that sound fair?
Did you answer the question Tuna posed?
I haven't attacked anyone, can you point out where you think I have?
The different ways corporate bankruptcy is treated in Europe and the USA has a big impact on the number of entrepreneurs willing to take the risk of a new start-up.
In the modern tech world where the rewards can come very quickly, the USA corporate and law structures make that an easier option.
China is just pumping funny money at everything, no one knows for sure if its a financial success or a completely bankrupt system is being propped up by a dodgy government. Thats why the rich Chinese are buying the world's assets, they are terrified the charade will end and the government seizes all their assets in the country.
In the modern tech world where the rewards can come very quickly, the USA corporate and law structures make that an easier option.
China is just pumping funny money at everything, no one knows for sure if its a financial success or a completely bankrupt system is being propped up by a dodgy government. Thats why the rich Chinese are buying the world's assets, they are terrified the charade will end and the government seizes all their assets in the country.
Piha said:
gooner1 said:
Piha said:
And in doing so, he is investing in a wealthy country that is moving closer to the EU.
And obviously not investing his money in post Brexit UK. It's his money, so it's his choice but its hardly a vote of confidence in a post Brexit UK!
The UK has the supply chains already in place and car manufacturing is already a big mature industry in the UK. Therefore it would seem a good place to invest in a new car plant unless there were big unfavourable changes coming to the UK economy.
Blue passports though (Made in France mind).
Are you willing to pay more for UK made passports? And obviously not investing his money in post Brexit UK. It's his money, so it's his choice but its hardly a vote of confidence in a post Brexit UK!
The UK has the supply chains already in place and car manufacturing is already a big mature industry in the UK. Therefore it would seem a good place to invest in a new car plant unless there were big unfavourable changes coming to the UK economy.
Blue passports though (Made in France mind).
Or is it you that is afraid of foreigners, you appear to be against stuff being made abroad.
I have spent a lot of time living and working outside the UK and I'm always happy to support the local economy wherever I am. It would also be fair to have called me a foreigner in the past, so I don't think I'm scared of foreigners at all. Are you scared of people that look a little different to you?
Additionally, I try not to use companies that avoid paying tax and I'm happy to buy at a slightly higher price if it benefits my local area. It's called choice and when used wisely choice can benefit many.
It's colour, the nationality of it's new makers, or the fact that our printers were not able to
match the terms that the French could.? Would you pay more for British goods if an alternative was equal quality and cheaper
As for living and working outside of the UK, big deal, I have lived, worked, bought and sold both land and property that I have built outside the UK and still have a Greek property.
Am I scared of people that look a little different from me? Not %100 sure of what you mean
by that, but having been born in Hackney in the 50's and being brought up in several
Barnando's and kids home from the age of four with kids from every corner of the earth, the
answer is a resounding No. I enjoyed my childhood immensely.
Thanks for the homily on choices btw, how have I managed up to now.
In Brexiter fantasy land: The EU was holding us back - we will be the next silicon valley as soon as we've escaped their clutches.
Back in the real world: Britain is drawing up plans to charter ships to bring in food and medicines in the event of a “no-deal” Brexit next March
Back in the real world: Britain is drawing up plans to charter ships to bring in food and medicines in the event of a “no-deal” Brexit next March
mx5nut said:
In Brexiter fantasy land: The EU was holding us back - we will be the next silicon valley as soon as we've escaped their clutches.
Back in the real world: Britain is drawing up plans to charter ships to bring in food and medicines in the event of a “no-deal” Brexit next March
With so many comments from Leavers and Remainers in regards just how incompetent the Govt are, if the headline is true it indicates the Govt is serious about the possibility of not reaching a mutually agreeable arrangement for the UK to leave the EU and is making very sensible contingency plans.Back in the real world: Britain is drawing up plans to charter ships to bring in food and medicines in the event of a “no-deal” Brexit next March
Thanks for the heads up mx5nut, you normally post very inflammatory posts, it's refreshing to get an informative one
don'tbesilly said:
mx5nut said:
In Brexiter fantasy land: The EU was holding us back - we will be the next silicon valley as soon as we've escaped their clutches.
Back in the real world: Britain is drawing up plans to charter ships to bring in food and medicines in the event of a “no-deal” Brexit next March
With so many comments from Leavers and Remainers in regards just how incompetent the Govt are, if the headline is true it indicates the Govt is serious about the possibility of not reaching a mutually agreeable arrangement for the UK to leave the EU and is making very sensible contingency plans.Back in the real world: Britain is drawing up plans to charter ships to bring in food and medicines in the event of a “no-deal” Brexit next March
Thanks for the heads up mx5nut, you normally post very inflammatory posts, it's refreshing to get an informative one
k this, none of them are happening anyway.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff