How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)

[Piha]

SpeckledJim said:

TheFlyingBanana said:

The masterminds behind Brexit:

And the masterminds behind the Referendum:

Leaving the European Union would tip the UK into a year-long recession, with up to 820,000 jobs lost within two years, Chancellor George Osborne says.

Publishing Treasury analysis, he said a Leave vote would cause an "immediate and profound" economic shock, with growth between 3% and 6% lower.


How many Remain votes did that out-and-out guess/lie win?

Let us check how many of the cunning gentlemen in the image actually offered to become leader and lead negotiations after their sage words...

David Davis - had a dabble then fled.
Michael Gove - errr, left BoJo holding the baby
John Redwood - absent but tried in 1995 and lost by a Major 66.3%,a humiliation.
Liam Fox - Well done for trying, lost in the first round, last place with 16 votes.
Douglas Cardwell - Has previous with a history of quitting!
Gerard Ratten - Who?

[Sway]

p1stonhead said:

Sway said:

p1stonhead said:

That’s because no one could solve the problem which until today (apparently) remained the biggest issue.

Apart from the solution proposed at various times by:

The WTO
Davis
Rees-Mogg
The ERG
Barnier

You know, the one already in use across the EU and wider planet...

That impossible solution.

Clearly none were actually going to work otherwise they would have agreed it by now.

Someone always disagrees including the DUP who are the puppet masters don’t forget.

None? It was the same proposal...

Amazing how it works at Southampton, Heathrow, and tens of thousands of locations across the planet, but in your view couldn't possibly work in Ireland.

[SpeckledJim]

Piha said:

SpeckledJim said:

TheFlyingBanana said:

The masterminds behind Brexit:

And the masterminds behind the Referendum:

Leaving the European Union would tip the UK into a year-long recession, with up to 820,000 jobs lost within two years, Chancellor George Osborne says.

Publishing Treasury analysis, he said a Leave vote would cause an "immediate and profound" economic shock, with growth between 3% and 6% lower.


How many Remain votes did that out-and-out guess/lie win?

Let us check how many of the cunning gentlemen in the image actually offered to become leader and lead negotiations after their sage words...

David Davis - had a dabble then fled.
Michael Gove - errr, left BoJo holding the baby
John Redwood - absent but tried in 1995 and lost by a Major 66.3%,a humiliation.
Liam Fox - Well done for trying, lost in the first round, last place with 16 votes.
Douglas Cardwell - Has previous with a history of quitting!
Gerard Ratten - Who?

I'm not endorsing any of them. Just highlighting that if we're building a Liar's Wall, that there are a few Remainers who should be on it.

You might even agree that the lying Prime Minister and lying Chancellor were more influential than the lying Douglas Carswell, I don't know?

[p1stonhead]

Sway said:

p1stonhead said:

Sway said:

p1stonhead said:

That’s because no one could solve the problem which until today (apparently) remained the biggest issue.

Apart from the solution proposed at various times by:

The WTO
Davis
Rees-Mogg
The ERG
Barnier

You know, the one already in use across the EU and wider planet...

That impossible solution.

Clearly none were actually going to work otherwise they would have agreed it by now.

Someone always disagrees including the DUP who are the puppet masters don’t forget.

None? It was the same proposal...

Amazing how it works at Southampton, Heathrow, and tens of thousands of locations across the planet, but in your view couldn't possibly work in Ireland.

Tell that to the people who have done fk all for over two years.

[Piha]

SpeckledJim said:

Piha said:

SpeckledJim said:

TheFlyingBanana said:

The masterminds behind Brexit:

And the masterminds behind the Referendum:

Leaving the European Union would tip the UK into a year-long recession, with up to 820,000 jobs lost within two years, Chancellor George Osborne says.

Publishing Treasury analysis, he said a Leave vote would cause an "immediate and profound" economic shock, with growth between 3% and 6% lower.


How many Remain votes did that out-and-out guess/lie win?

Let us check how many of the cunning gentlemen in the image actually offered to become leader and lead negotiations after their sage words...

David Davis - had a dabble then fled.
Michael Gove - errr, left BoJo holding the baby
John Redwood - absent but tried in 1995 and lost by a Major 66.3%,a humiliation.
Liam Fox - Well done for trying, lost in the first round, last place with 16 votes.
Douglas Cardwell - Has previous with a history of quitting!
Gerard Ratten - Who?

I'm not endorsing any of them. Just highlighting that if we're building a Liar's Wall, that there are a few Remainers who should be on it.

You might even agree that the lying Prime Minister and lying Chancellor were more influential than the lying Douglas Carswell, I don't know?

I do agree with you that there were outright lies told on each side. I believe that due to the lies told by both sides, a Peoples Vote should be held so the public can now make a more informed decision.

You might even agree that letting a vote stand, without allowing the great British public an opportunity to put right those lies and mistruths is not fair and insults the public the government is meant to serve?

[The Dangerous Elk]

don'tbesilly said:

One has to wonder whether Corbyn/Labour would do better, he couldn't possibly do worse than May.

No you don't and ohhh yes he could.

[rigga]

B'stard Child said:

psi310398 said:

Earthdweller said:

The Irish have just announced that the “Brexit deal” will be put to a vote in the Irish Parliament as to whether they will accept it

Well, if they don't, on past form, won't they simply be told to vote again until they do?

I think that was the other Irish

How many are there?

[B'stard Child]

rigga said:

B'stard Child said:

psi310398 said:

Earthdweller said:

The Irish have just announced that the “Brexit deal” will be put to a vote in the Irish Parliament as to whether they will accept it

Well, if they don't, on past form, won't they simply be told to vote again until they do?

I think that was the other Irish

How many are there?

Thousands...... Probably millions - never counted them

[SpeckledJim]

Piha said:

SpeckledJim said:

Piha said:

SpeckledJim said:

TheFlyingBanana said:

The masterminds behind Brexit:

And the masterminds behind the Referendum:

Leaving the European Union would tip the UK into a year-long recession, with up to 820,000 jobs lost within two years, Chancellor George Osborne says.

Publishing Treasury analysis, he said a Leave vote would cause an "immediate and profound" economic shock, with growth between 3% and 6% lower.


How many Remain votes did that out-and-out guess/lie win?

Let us check how many of the cunning gentlemen in the image actually offered to become leader and lead negotiations after their sage words...

David Davis - had a dabble then fled.
Michael Gove - errr, left BoJo holding the baby
John Redwood - absent but tried in 1995 and lost by a Major 66.3%,a humiliation.
Liam Fox - Well done for trying, lost in the first round, last place with 16 votes.
Douglas Cardwell - Has previous with a history of quitting!
Gerard Ratten - Who?

I'm not endorsing any of them. Just highlighting that if we're building a Liar's Wall, that there are a few Remainers who should be on it.

You might even agree that the lying Prime Minister and lying Chancellor were more influential than the lying Douglas Carswell, I don't know?

I do agree with you that there were outright lies told on each side. I believe that due to the lies told by both sides, a Peoples Vote should be held so the public can now make a more informed decision.

You might even agree that letting a vote stand, without allowing the great British public an opportunity to put right those lies and mistruths is not fair and insults the public the government is meant to serve?

So Referendum 2016 was full of lies. I agree.

By what possible mechanism would you ensure that the opposing campaigns for the 'People's Vote' would not be full of lies again?

You can't. It's 2018, almost nothing is true, and there's nothing we can do about it.

[paulrockliffe]

Piha said:

I do agree with you that there were outright lies told on each side. I believe that due to the lies told by both sides, a Peoples Vote should be held so the public can now make a more informed decision.

You might even agree that letting a vote stand, without allowing the great British public an opportunity to put right those lies and mistruths is not fair and insults the public the government is meant to serve?

Do you understand that the entire remain campaign has been eviscerated by events since the last referendum? Every facet has been shown to be wrong at best, a lie at worst. Just yesterday we saw that Clegg's much vaunted 'dangerous fantasy' was the plan all along.

Remainers pushing this third referendum nonsense push it on the premise that remain would win and make all the problems go away. Or at least they end up with what they want. But I really struggle to understand what a remain campaign would look like now.

What is there to say other than May did a st job so we have to stay? Remainer May, campaigning for remain again. No one is buying that. Project Fear? Gone. EU army? Gone. Stay as were were? Gone. Turkey? it's a stretch but even there remain would come up against that picture of Merkel, macron, Putin and Erdogan enjoying themselves together in the wake of Salisbury.

Both campaigns would be as they were before, but leave strengthened, remain decimated. Where does a stronger mandate to leave leave us? Other than out of the EU before the vote takes place?

[SeeFive]

Piha said:

SpeckledJim said:

Piha said:

SpeckledJim said:

TheFlyingBanana said:

The masterminds behind Brexit:

And the masterminds behind the Referendum:

Leaving the European Union would tip the UK into a year-long recession, with up to 820,000 jobs lost within two years, Chancellor George Osborne says.

Publishing Treasury analysis, he said a Leave vote would cause an "immediate and profound" economic shock, with growth between 3% and 6% lower.


How many Remain votes did that out-and-out guess/lie win?

Let us check how many of the cunning gentlemen in the image actually offered to become leader and lead negotiations after their sage words...

David Davis - had a dabble then fled.
Michael Gove - errr, left BoJo holding the baby
John Redwood - absent but tried in 1995 and lost by a Major 66.3%,a humiliation.
Liam Fox - Well done for trying, lost in the first round, last place with 16 votes.
Douglas Cardwell - Has previous with a history of quitting!
Gerard Ratten - Who?

I'm not endorsing any of them. Just highlighting that if we're building a Liar's Wall, that there are a few Remainers who should be on it.

You might even agree that the lying Prime Minister and lying Chancellor were more influential than the lying Douglas Carswell, I don't know?

I do agree with you that there were outright lies told on each side. I believe that due to the lies told by both sides, a Peoples Vote should be held so the public can now make a more informed decision.

You might even agree that letting a vote stand, without allowing the great British public an opportunity to put right those lies and mistruths is not fair and insults the public the government is meant to serve?

Can’t see it being any different if we got all undemocratic and ignored the result of the real vote to have another one.

Both sides of the argument are still lying. Most voters will still decide whose lies they prefer and vote rather than doing their own due diligence on what each side are saying.

About 48% will do zero due diligence as they have probably already decided where to cast their X with glee, just on the basis that they would have what they wanted since the constitutional result that they didn’t like was announced.

[Murph7355]

PurpleMoonlight said:

We are ceasing to be a member state, we will not have any MEP's, we will not be liable to ongoing subscriptions, we will not be in the CU/SM, we will have control of our borders.

I am really struggling to see how leavers are claiming we are not leaving in any material sense.

It will be up to parliament to accept or reject the deal May has secured. That's what leavers wanted to happen is it not?

Neither you nor, to be fair, I know this.

Not being in "The" CU is only material if the version of one that is proposed is materially different to "The" one.

If we are bound wholly by EU regulations as part of the price then that is unacceptable. For trade relating to the EU that is obviously fine. Otherwise no (not least of which because nobody else is forced into that, and it would compromise our ability to craft trade deals and set key policy).

Immigration - depends on the text. Never been my biggest issue so if all we do is give some degree of preference, fine.

Payments - let's see the text.

I appreciate that we are living in an era where everyone seems to want to be called one thing when they are patently not, but if May tries to do that with Brexit, she and her party will pay dearly for it. As will we all.

[paulrockliffe]

Graham Brady spotted going into the Cabinet Office. A backdoor into No. 10.

Here's hoping.....

[PurpleMoonlight]

paulrockliffe said:

Graham Brady spotted going into the Cabinet Office. A backdoor into No. 10.

Here's hoping.....

For what?

[WCZ]

Minister: "Two members of the Cabinet will resign today". Me: "Who?" Minister: "Penny Mordaunt and Esther McVey."

[JagLover]

PurpleMoonlight said:

paulrockliffe said:

Graham Brady spotted going into the Cabinet Office. A backdoor into No. 10.

Here's hoping.....

For what?

Leadership challenge, he is the guy who keeps the letters.

[B'stard Child]

PurpleMoonlight said:

paulrockliffe said:

Graham Brady spotted going into the Cabinet Office. A backdoor into No. 10.

Here's hoping.....

For what?

Oh don't get him to paint more of the picture - I'm struggling to get what I have out of my head

[paulrockliffe]

To be honest, the best outcome now is that Cabinet reject the deal and May survives to the 1st of April, so I'm ambivalent at best.

We know that the ERG is largely witholding their letters as an effective block-vote, so it would be a very bad sign if there were 48 letters in without theirs. I don't see the ERG pulling unless Parliament approves the deal, even then it's not certain that it would be beneficial, so who knows.

[LoonyTunes]

On the upside at least this bad deal leaves Workers Rights regulations in place - something the Tory Brexiteers would dearly love to see stripped away

[crankedup]

Garvin said:

Coolbanana said:

. . . . . . . I probably will laugh at Leavers who are unhappy once the full impact of Brexit is realised - after all, they have sown their own failure and deserve ridicule.

Of course Leavers, Remainers and those who couldn’t care less will all be affected by Brexit. Personally, I will feel sorry for all if we end up with a bum deal.

There seems to be a view amongst Remainers that a bum deal will be solely the fault of Leavers because “this what they voted for” which is clearly not what they did. Remainers want to accept no responsibility that the resistance and undermining they have undertaken will have contributed to a bum deal. It really is a cracking example of heads up arses.

Therefore, there is a school of thought that can lay significant blame at the door of Remainers and that they should be laughed at as they too will have to suck up the results of their own folly.

There is a case for the EU to carry some responsibility of failure imo. Due to the lack of engagement and thier transigent mind set applied to the regulations of the EU it has led to the current situation. Unless the EU political construct can look at itself with a critical eye and adapt to a changing World I foresee the EU collapsing in on itself as more Member states populations become increasingly dissatisfied. Of course the poorest of those states maybe all that is left of the EU, propped up by Germany and France.