Lunacy on the M40
Discussion
adam. said:
...consulate involvement for the foreign couple...
Woah, hold on.Is there anything confirming they were foreign? The photos have the plate blurred, sure, but there's nothing to suggest it isn't UK apart from somebody allegedly saying "foreign plates", with all the usual media sources giving that in quote marks. The front plate is white background, the caravan plate is yellow background. The Subaru's wipers are clearly RHD.
TooMany2cvs said:
Woah, hold on.
Is there anything confirming they were foreign? The photos have the plate blurred, sure, but there's nothing to suggest it isn't UK apart from somebody allegedly saying "foreign plates", with all the usual media sources giving that in quote marks. The front plate is white background, the caravan plate is yellow background. The Subaru's wipers are clearly RHD.
It does look to be RHD when freeze framing the head on video, with the possible outline of the steering wheel visible and the passenger side looks empty, but a small built person might be rather hidden. However it could still be Irish plates, southern look complete different and a lot of people might mistake NI plates for foreign.Is there anything confirming they were foreign? The photos have the plate blurred, sure, but there's nothing to suggest it isn't UK apart from somebody allegedly saying "foreign plates", with all the usual media sources giving that in quote marks. The front plate is white background, the caravan plate is yellow background. The Subaru's wipers are clearly RHD.
I think this calls for three things.
Firstly, mandatory re-testing for EVERYONE every 10 years, up until the age of say 70. After 70 it should be every 5 years until you're 90, then every year. None of this self-declaration of fitness b
ks, mandatory retesting.
Secondly, devices fitted at the top of exit-slips and motorway services that prevent vehicles from proceeding the wrong way on to a motorway. It could be a two-part system, firstly a series of red lights set across the road similar to the stop-bars that airports use to prevent commercial aircraft entering active runways without a clearance. If the vehicle proceeds over the stop bar, a secondary stinger-type system that is normally retracted will automatically deploy, disabling the offending vehicle.
I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
I'm also going to hazard a guess that such a device would cost less than converting all the motorways to smart motorway, which don't capture wrong-way drivers.
Firstly, mandatory re-testing for EVERYONE every 10 years, up until the age of say 70. After 70 it should be every 5 years until you're 90, then every year. None of this self-declaration of fitness b
ks, mandatory retesting. Secondly, devices fitted at the top of exit-slips and motorway services that prevent vehicles from proceeding the wrong way on to a motorway. It could be a two-part system, firstly a series of red lights set across the road similar to the stop-bars that airports use to prevent commercial aircraft entering active runways without a clearance. If the vehicle proceeds over the stop bar, a secondary stinger-type system that is normally retracted will automatically deploy, disabling the offending vehicle.
I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
I'm also going to hazard a guess that such a device would cost less than converting all the motorways to smart motorway, which don't capture wrong-way drivers.
Muddle238 said:
I think this calls for three things.
Firstly, mandatory re-testing for EVERYONE every 10 years, up until the age of say 70. After 70 it should be every 5 years until you're 90, then every year. None of this self-declaration of fitness bks, mandatory retesting.
Secondly, devices fitted at the top of exit-slips and motorway services that prevent vehicles from proceeding the wrong way on to a motorway. It could be a two-part system, firstly a series of red lights set across the road similar to the stop-bars that airports use to prevent commercial aircraft entering active runways without a clearance. If the vehicle proceeds over the stop bar, a secondary stinger-type system that is normally retracted will automatically deploy, disabling the offending vehicle.
I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
I'm also going to hazard a guess that such a device would cost less than converting all the motorways to smart motorway, which don't capture wrong-way drivers.
Is that you Welshbeef?Firstly, mandatory re-testing for EVERYONE every 10 years, up until the age of say 70. After 70 it should be every 5 years until you're 90, then every year. None of this self-declaration of fitness b
ks, mandatory retesting. Secondly, devices fitted at the top of exit-slips and motorway services that prevent vehicles from proceeding the wrong way on to a motorway. It could be a two-part system, firstly a series of red lights set across the road similar to the stop-bars that airports use to prevent commercial aircraft entering active runways without a clearance. If the vehicle proceeds over the stop bar, a secondary stinger-type system that is normally retracted will automatically deploy, disabling the offending vehicle.
I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
I'm also going to hazard a guess that such a device would cost less than converting all the motorways to smart motorway, which don't capture wrong-way drivers.
Muddle238 said:
I think this calls for three things.
Secondly, devices fitted at the top of exit-slips and motorway services that prevent vehicles from proceeding the wrong way on to a motorway. It could be a two-part system, firstly a series of red lights set across the road similar to the stop-bars that airports use to prevent commercial aircraft entering active runways without a clearance. If the vehicle proceeds over the stop bar, a secondary stinger-type system that is normally retracted will automatically deploy, disabling the offending vehicle.
I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
The google maps posted for the preceding junctions show lots of no-entry signs and layouts that should prevent this for any competent driver. However as this incident and others show, we simply cannot stop everybody if they are intent on going 'that way' for whatever reason, ignorance, mental defect, suicide, rank incompetence.Secondly, devices fitted at the top of exit-slips and motorway services that prevent vehicles from proceeding the wrong way on to a motorway. It could be a two-part system, firstly a series of red lights set across the road similar to the stop-bars that airports use to prevent commercial aircraft entering active runways without a clearance. If the vehicle proceeds over the stop bar, a secondary stinger-type system that is normally retracted will automatically deploy, disabling the offending vehicle.
I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
I cannot see a technology solution like you propose working reliably and seems far more like to suffer false positives for vehicles going to right way having their tyres blown out at speed.
Loads of things to do that, but only suitable for low speed. Suspect that you might end up with more fatalities caused by driving over them too fast and losing control than we do from wrong way drivers, or even from the consequences of people slowing for the barrier and then merging dangerously slowly. There might be a way of engineering something that can be driven over at slip road speed in one direction but which stops cars the other way, though, just not exactly those.
TooMany2cvs said:
...don'cha think?
I wonder what the UK stats are. Can't find any at a quick look, but there's a lot of press stories - mostly the elderly and bewildered, with a good smattering of the young and stupid.
I lived and worked in Munich, I was warned by several German friends and colleagues to take care on the Autobahn at night as there was a known group of ‘Ghost riders’ who raced on the local derestricted sections with no lights on.I wonder what the UK stats are. Can't find any at a quick look, but there's a lot of press stories - mostly the elderly and bewildered, with a good smattering of the young and stupid.
Now who do you think has a better idea of what is going on, the local German residents or you sat in your house (which you clearly never leave) looking up facts on the internet to rack up your troll post count?
4x4Tyke said:
The google maps posted for the preceding junctions show lots of no-entry signs and layouts that should prevent this for any competent driver. However as this incident and others show, we simply cannot stop everybody if they are intent on going 'that way' for whatever reason, ignorance, mental defect, suicide, rank incompetence.
I cannot see a technology solution like you propose working reliably and seems far more like to suffer false positives for vehicles going to right way having their tyres blown out at speed.
It is extremely likely to be "Take the next turn" mentality which some people take too literally. Following a map, a sat nav or someone giving vocal directions and they say "take the next turn" and instead of taking the actual turn to the on road, take the left turn which is actually not a turn at all, but a no-entry signed exit to a one-way piece of road. I've done this before with people who are too literal, though fortunately the only outcome was turning into someone's driveway instead of taking the actual "turn" you intended for them to take. I cannot see a technology solution like you propose working reliably and seems far more like to suffer false positives for vehicles going to right way having their tyres blown out at speed.
We will never know what the two people in the Subaru were thinking/doing in the last few minutes before the crash. Were they trying to find their way to the side of the road against traffic? We can't know. But anecdotal evidence from previous times when people have gone the wrong way down the motorway, but lived to tell the tale, has always been that they just got on because they took the wrong turning through their own inattentiveness/incapacity, rather than any genuine malicious intent
TooMany2cvs said:
ADAC.
Hmm. Lemme think.
have you actually been to Germany? In rural Bavaria at 2 in the morning how many people do you think actually get caught or reported? Hmm. Lemme think.
I’m sorry the exact wording of my post wasn’t exactly clear and factually precise to meet your anally retentive pedantry, but I have better things to do than construct a wikipedia researched article with all sources annoted to Harvard phd standards as I have better things to do, which clearly you don’t.
The exact causes given for Ghost Riders have been divided into:
The elderly and foreign drivers entering on unlit country slip roads - easily done given the way they are laid out.
Drunk drivers
Suicide attempts
Thrill seekers
The last group was the ones I were referring to, who obviously don’t make up the entire 2200 reported incidents but is a significant enough thing to be something that has passed into urban lore, which is not the case in the UK.
nyxster said:
The last group was the ones I were referring to, who obviously don’t make up the entire 2200 reported incidents
And there we go. We're in agreement. Group hug. Was it really worth getting to exercised about? You'll do yourself a mischief.nyxster said:
but is a significant enough thing to be something that has passed into urban lore
"Urban myth", more like. With more than a vague ring of this ancient, but still steaming, bks about it.https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lights-out/
Muddle238 said:
If the vehicle proceeds over the stop bar, a secondary stinger-type system that is normally retracted will automatically deploy, disabling the offending vehicle.
I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
They used to have a system at a petrol station near me - if a vehicle failed to pay they could press a button and a spike strip at the entrances would pop up and puncture the tyres as it drove out. I'm doubtful whether they ever deployed it though - I'm sure we can all think of numerous ways in which it could all go wrong.I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
When heading down to the channel tunnel on the M20 recently the overhead signs were saying "*** ONCOMING VEHICLE **"
I never did see anything, but I was surprised the some drivers didn't slow down or move to an inside lane.
It certainly heightens the senses when you read a warning like that.
I never did see anything, but I was surprised the some drivers didn't slow down or move to an inside lane.
It certainly heightens the senses when you read a warning like that.
S100HP said:
Muddle238 said:
I think this calls for three things.
Firstly, mandatory re-testing for EVERYONE every 10 years, up until the age of say 70. After 70 it should be every 5 years until you're 90, then every year. None of this self-declaration of fitness bks, mandatory retesting.
Secondly, devices fitted at the top of exit-slips and motorway services that prevent vehicles from proceeding the wrong way on to a motorway. It could be a two-part system, firstly a series of red lights set across the road similar to the stop-bars that airports use to prevent commercial aircraft entering active runways without a clearance. If the vehicle proceeds over the stop bar, a secondary stinger-type system that is normally retracted will automatically deploy, disabling the offending vehicle.
I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
I'm also going to hazard a guess that such a device would cost less than converting all the motorways to smart motorway, which don't capture wrong-way drivers.
Is that you Welshbeef?Firstly, mandatory re-testing for EVERYONE every 10 years, up until the age of say 70. After 70 it should be every 5 years until you're 90, then every year. None of this self-declaration of fitness b
ks, mandatory retesting. Secondly, devices fitted at the top of exit-slips and motorway services that prevent vehicles from proceeding the wrong way on to a motorway. It could be a two-part system, firstly a series of red lights set across the road similar to the stop-bars that airports use to prevent commercial aircraft entering active runways without a clearance. If the vehicle proceeds over the stop bar, a secondary stinger-type system that is normally retracted will automatically deploy, disabling the offending vehicle.
I think a device could be designed to function in only one direction, so that traffic going the correct way is unaffected should it deploy, however 100% effectiveness going the other direction.
I'm also going to hazard a guess that such a device would cost less than converting all the motorways to smart motorway, which don't capture wrong-way drivers.
How about, we accept this is as an uncommon, exceptional occurrence and do nothing?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-...
Just in case anyone missed it, RIP to all those involved. Hopefully this will push some more legislation for eye-tests and re-tests for the elderly.
Just in case anyone missed it, RIP to all those involved. Hopefully this will push some more legislation for eye-tests and re-tests for the elderly.
Digga said:
4x4Tyke said:
I cannot see a technology solution like you propose working reliably and seems far more like to suffer false positives for vehicles going to right way having their tyres blown out at speed.
Simple, low-tech, relatively cheap. We've all seen various versions.
I think part of the problem is that the UK symbol used to indicate that drivers should give way (triangular road markings) look exactly like a directional arrow from the opposite direction and anyone not familiar with UK road markings (and possibly drives on the wrong side of the road in their country) could easily misinterpret it.
In Australia we have these signs on most motorway off ramps, seems a cheap solution.
Please note, I am in no way excusing the daftness of these people, from the video in the Daily Fail it looks like they were in the far right lane, surely as soon as you noticed that you were driving against the flow of traffic it's time to find a shoulder and get the hell off the road instead of trying to negotiate your way through opposing traffic.
Shakermaker said:
We can't know. But anecdotal evidence from previous times when people have gone the wrong way down the motorway, but lived to tell the tale, has always been that they just got on because they took the wrong turning through their own inattentiveness/incapacity, rather than any genuine malicious intent
I think you're right for most cases, but I do think suicide is the motive in some. That is based on an incident on the A63 near me that we had a decade or so ago. Once he'd been stopped, he essentially provoked a suicide by cop, attacking armed officers with a sword.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/4373955....
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