Vegan extremists

[Davos123]

Willy Nilly said:

If you don't like meat, don't eat it, see how much I care. But if you claim humans don't need meat, why eat meat substitutes and why make vegan sausages and why develop an artificial meat? The artificial meat is absolutely ridiculous, the last thing we need is more processed food in our diet.

I like the taste of meat, I like sausages. Veganism has absolutely zero to do with "not liking meat" and everything to do with ethically objecting to the way it's produced. Being healthy and not eating processed foods again has zero to do with veganism. This shouldn't be difficult to understand.

[Willy Nilly]

LDN said:

Willy Nilly said:

Blah

The level of wilful ignorance here is quite something. There’s a few points with some merit but... overall, everything you state has been addressed earlier in the thread; at great length.

Non of the points I raised have been addressed, they have been glossed over with flowery, vague language from people that have no idea on the practicalities of what they are talking about.

Why do vegans keep showing out of date footage from foreign farms to give the impression of poor practise in the UK.

Why were animal rights protestors showing a picture of one bird last Sunday on Southend High Street while hiding behind masks?

Why do animal rights protestors make life miserable for legal businesses in the UK and their suppliers instead of talking to the legislators like everyone else will do if they want the law changed?

Why is producing 5,000 litre + of a raw material per acre that can be consumed with no processing worse for the environment that trying to produce a substance that manifests as milk from raw materials that need processing that produces less that 3 tons per acre and is then of less nutritional value that what it was trying to copy?

Why is producing a facsimile of meat in a factory better for the environment that grazing cattle on grass, which whether you like it or not, is how most beef in the UK is produced?

[Ruskie]

LDN said:

Willy Nilly said:

Blah

The level of wilful ignorance here is quite something. There’s a few points with some merit but... overall, everything you state has been addressed earlier in the thread; at great length.

Wasting your time. Wilful ignorance and trolling is all this thread is about now. Multiple times evidences, facts and visual proof have been provided. Anaecdotal evidence is all that matters, clearly.

[LDN]

Ruskie said:

LDN said:

Willy Nilly said:

Blah

The level of wilful ignorance here is quite something. There’s a few points with some merit but... overall, everything you state has been addressed earlier in the thread; at great length.

Wasting your time. Wilful ignorance and trolling is all this thread is about now. Multiple times evidences, facts and visual proof have been provided. Anaecdotal evidence is all that matters, clearly.

Agreed.

Every point has been discussed at length. But he’s clutching at straws. There are whole movies of up to date UK footage showing massive welfare failures... but he keeps insisting that only footage from Timbuktu is used. Wilful ignorance and trolling indeed. The EU did their own study on animal agriculture and welfare and exposed massive failings across the board including the UK. But... ‘masks and one chicken in thousands, innit’.

[LDN]

DoubleD said:

LDN said:

grumbledoak said:

Can I add

It's not fine to inflict this on others. Humans need meat to thrive. Babies require animal products to survive. That reality is not altered by how Holy your diet makes you feel.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18574603/ns/us_news-crim...

We’ve been over this umpteen times. The NHS and dietic associations all state that babies / children can be brought up on a vegan diet. Fact.

Many children die of malnourishment, on meat diets / brought up by parents who eat meat.

And to finish off; the very article you linked to states:

“No matter how many times they want to say, ‘We’re vegans, we’re vegetarians,’ that’s not the issue in this case,” said prosecutor Chuck Boring. “The child died because he was not fed. Period.”

You really are a special type of thick. Or..... maybe, you’re being disingenuous. Either way; it doesn’t take a lot to shoot this type of nonsense down.

Can we stick to facts rather than more name calling.

Funny you don’t ask Oak to stick to facts, when the very article he posted up contadrcits the point he was making! Thick / disingenuous... which is it? No name calling here.

[grumbledoak]

LDN said:

We’ve been over this umpteen times. The NHS and dietic associations all state that babies / children can be brought up on a vegan diet. Fact.

We've been over this before. The dietetic association/s were started by the Seventh Day Adventists, as a way to push their vegetarian creed with a "health" angle instead of as religious doctrine. Their influence has, sadly, grown, both internationally and here in the UK.

If is also a total coincidence that they and their members produce and sell such food products, Kellogg's being the best known example.

[Davos123]

Still waiting for someone to post a peer reviewed study that says it's impossible for a human to thrive on a vegan diet at any stage of their life.

[LDN]

grumbledoak said:

LDN said:

We’ve been over this umpteen times. The NHS and dietic associations all state that babies / children can be brought up on a vegan diet. Fact.

We've been over this before. The dietetic association/s were started by the Seventh Day Adventists, as a way to push their vegetarian creed with a "health" angle instead of as religious doctrine. Their influence has, sadly, grown, both internationally and here in the UK.

If is also a total coincidence that they and their members produce and sell such food products, Kellogg's being the best known example.

- some were started by them and they are vegetarian, not vegan. Many dietic associations have nothing to do with them. Neither does the NHS. But you know that.

No comment on the link you posting contradicting your point. You’re one of those that never reads passed the headline aren’t you? Like much of the population; you’re not alone.

[Kenny Powers]

I see we are back to childish posturing and personal insults again. Seems a common theme running through Camp Vegan. Many seem to love insulting and vilifying humans whilst crying about bees being forced to produce honey against their will.

You know an argument is being lost when the finger pointing and arm waving starts

[Davos123]

It's almost like we've grown slightly tired of responding to the same appeal to nature fallacies, anecdote-based arguments, deliberate ignoring of facts and outright fanaticism from the carnists here.

[Kenny Powers]

You could probably use some of that irony in your diet

[Willy Nilly]

LDN said:

Ruskie said:

LDN said:

Willy Nilly said:

Blah

The level of wilful ignorance here is quite something. There’s a few points with some merit but... overall, everything you state has been addressed earlier in the thread; at great length.

Wasting your time. Wilful ignorance and trolling is all this thread is about now. Multiple times evidences, facts and visual proof have been provided. Anaecdotal evidence is all that matters, clearly.

Agreed.

Every point has been discussed at length. But he’s clutching at straws. There are whole movies of up to date UK footage showing massive welfare failures... but he keeps insisting that only footage from Timbuktu is used. Wilful ignorance and trolling indeed. The EU did their own study on animal agriculture and welfare and exposed massive failings across the board including the UK. But... ‘masks and one chicken in thousands, innit’.

If you needed a load of new tellies hauling, maybe you made tellies, maybe you bought tellies and when the tellies got to their destination there were broken tellies and damaged packaging, you'd be asking the haulier questions. So if you are buying or selling livestock, you would expect them to arrive where ever they are going in the best condition possible.

AFAIK, to haul livestock professionally you need a module on your drivers CPC in the same way that a hazardous load driver does. Very often the drivers seem to come from a livestock background anyway, so are experienced with livestock. Nevermind all the movement restrictions and regulations that go with moving livestock.

As I've said before, I've unloaded 2 artics full of gilts that had been driven from Colorado to central Ohio. They'd been on those trailers for 3 days and arrived in perfect condition as we were expecting, the stressful part of the operation was unloading them. The breeding stock for the outdoor unit I worked on in the UK cam from France and were always clean, calm and free from damage when they were unloaded.

There are always likely to be people that bend or simply ignore the rules in what ever business you choose, but to say all livestock movements are inhumane is ridiculous. Once in a while a driver misses a low bridge sign and strikes the bridge, that doesn't mean all drivers miss all signs and hit all bridges like you are insinuating is the case with anyone having anything to do with livestock.

Agriculture is a rather strange line of work. You don't get into it lightly, you certainly don't get into it to get rich quick. Most people don't fall into it like they would other lines of work. For the most part people do it because they just like growing wheat, or keeping sheep, or milking cows.

A cows first trip through a robot miker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Q1LoxK5mE

What looks like a pretty average day on a dairy farm to me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwV-7WAzjhQ

[Willy Nilly]

More SOP on a dairy farm in the UK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgXhgLQqMQ8

[Davos123]

The fact that you're comparing sentient life with a fking television should give you a hint at the problem.

[Willy Nilly]

Some cockups cow in the pit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgXhgLQqMQ8

[Willy Nilly]

Davos123 said:

The fact that you're comparing sentient life with a fking television should give you a hint at the problem.

erm, I can't reason with you if you cannot see that what ever you are hauling, be it animals, tellies, bricks or the royal family, the cargo needs to get where it is going in good condition. So, if you are in the business of hauling livestock, they need to get where they are going in good condition or you're not going to be in the business of hauling livestock very long. Just because sentient animals are being transported, doesn't mean they can't be transported well.

One place I know always loads the bull up onto the stock trailer before putting him in with a new batch of heifers or cows, then takes him for a little drive around. As a result, he always leaps on the trailer and they have no issues loading him at all.

[Rollin]

Willy Nilly said:

Davos123 said:

The fact that you're comparing sentient life with a fking television should give you a hint at the problem.

erm, I can't reason with you if you cannot see that what ever you are hauling, be it animals, tellies, bricks or the royal family, the cargo needs to get where it is going in good condition. So, if you are in the business of hauling livestock, they need to get where they are going in good condition or you're not going to be in the business of hauling livestock very long. Just because sentient animals are being transported, doesn't mean they can't be transported well.

One place I know always loads the bull up onto the stock trailer before putting him in with a new batch of heifers or cows, then takes him for a little drive around. As a result, he always leaps on the trailer and they have no issues loading him at all.

Vegans even get angry about bees being transported.

ETA How do vegans ensure that the produce they eat hasn't been pollinated by exploited, enslaved, hive imprisoned bees?

Edited by Rollin on Sunday 3rd February 14:38

[anonymous-user]

I think meat should be more expensive. So farmers, the animals are treated better. Chickens do live a stty life, nothing natural about it.

[otolith]

Thesprucegoose said:

I think meat should be more expensive. So farmers, the animals are treated better. Chickens do live a stty life, nothing natural about it.

I don't think it should be more expensive per se, but I think that would be an inevitable consequence of how I would choose to have it produced.

[DoubleD]

LDN said:

DoubleD said:

LDN said:

grumbledoak said:

Can I add

It's not fine to inflict this on others. Humans need meat to thrive. Babies require animal products to survive. That reality is not altered by how Holy your diet makes you feel.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18574603/ns/us_news-crim...

We’ve been over this umpteen times. The NHS and dietic associations all state that babies / children can be brought up on a vegan diet. Fact.

Many children die of malnourishment, on meat diets / brought up by parents who eat meat.

And to finish off; the very article you linked to states:

“No matter how many times they want to say, ‘We’re vegans, we’re vegetarians,’ that’s not the issue in this case,” said prosecutor Chuck Boring. “The child died because he was not fed. Period.”

You really are a special type of thick. Or..... maybe, you’re being disingenuous. Either way; it doesn’t take a lot to shoot this type of nonsense down.

Can we stick to facts rather than more name calling.

Funny you don’t ask Oak to stick to facts, when the very article he posted up contadrcits the point he was making! Thick / disingenuous... which is it? No name calling here.

I wasnt saying that what you said was or wasnt a fact. What im saying is, lets stop the name calling.