Vegan extremists

[Burwood]

LDN said:

Burwood said:

I’ve mentioned on here before the ordering a steak in a restaurant. On asking the waitress ‘how’s the steak’ only to get a response ‘I wouldn’t know I don’t eat meat’. Annoyed me that. Stupid woman. If I was her boss she’d get a written warning.

You thin skinned snowflake you

[StevieBee]

Nanook said:

What sort of question is "How's the steak" to ask a waitress though?

What kind of response were you expecting? If you've ever eaten one before, you know what the score is.

It will depend entirely on the restaurant. If you're in a Harvester then fair dos. But somewhere more 'jacket and tie', the waiting staff will have sampled everything they offer in order to convey to the customer what's what.

[StevieBee]

LDN said:

Taking in most of the points; vegans are not like religious nut jobs; because religious but jobs represent and fight for a make believe ‘fairy tale for adults’ if you will. Whereas veganism seeks to reduce suffering / animal exploitation and the betterment of the planet as a whole. Of course there are vegan extremists; there are millions more conservative vegans / vegetarians..

In the same way that not everyone that goes to church or mosque is a religious nut job or terrorist, not every vegan is a vegan nut job or terrorist.

But in the same way there are those that violently impose their religious beliefs on others (terrorists), the same applies to those that do the same to impose their thinking on those that think differently to their idea of the hierarchy of sentient beings.

What is the difference between someone blowing you up for not conforming to their region and someone blowing you up for eating a sausage?

[Burwood]

StevieBee said:

Nanook said:

What sort of question is "How's the steak" to ask a waitress though?

What kind of response were you expecting? If you've ever eaten one before, you know what the score is.

It will depend entirely on the restaurant. If you're in a Harvester then fair dos. But somewhere more 'jacket and tie', the waiting staff will have sampled everything they offer in order to convey to the customer what's what.

Harvester I do get your point though. It was a higher quality establishment on the Kings Road. And yes, it was a throw away question. I didn’t make a fuss, and she got nil tip

[LDN]

StevieBee said:

LDN said:

Taking in most of the points; vegans are not like religious nut jobs; because religious but jobs represent and fight for a make believe ‘fairy tale for adults’ if you will. Whereas veganism seeks to reduce suffering / animal exploitation and the betterment of the planet as a whole. Of course there are vegan extremists; there are millions more conservative vegans / vegetarians..

In the same way that not everyone that goes to church or mosque is a religious nut job or terrorist, not every vegan is a vegan nut job or terrorist.

But in the same way there are those that violently impose their religious beliefs on others (terrorists), the same applies to those that do the same to impose their thinking on those that think differently to their idea of the hierarchy of sentient beings.

What is the difference between someone blowing you up for not conforming to their region and someone blowing you up for eating a sausage?

Well, the difference is; nobody’s blown anyone up for eating a sausage.

Next?

[gooner1]

StevieBee said:

It will depend entirely on the restaurant. If you're in a Harvester then fair dos. But somewhere more 'jacket and tie', the waiting staff will have sampled everything they offer in order to convey to the customer what's what.

. Vegan waiting staff would have sampled all the meat based dishes?

[Rovinghawk]

LDN said:

vegans are not like religious nut jobs.

They believe that their way is the 'right' way, the only way and anyone who does not conform must be enlightened. Their beliefs are aired at the first opportunity.

They tell others how they should live their lives, generally in a condescending & critical manner.

I see strong similarities.

[LDN]

Rovinghawk said:

LDN said:

vegans are not like religious nut jobs.

They believe that their way is the 'right' way, the only way and anyone who does not conform must be enlightened. Their beliefs are aired at the first opportunity.

They tell others how they should live their lives, generally in a condescending & critical manner.

I see strong similarities.

It depends at which point you deem a religious person a nut job. Further up the thread; someone asked what the difference is between being blown up for not following a religious belief VS eating a sausage. I said, for a start; nobody has been blown up for eating a sausage.

If the debate is on religion VS veganism in general; then the differences are obvious. Veganism has a real and tangible cause; to reduce the exploitation of animals / sentient beings and to reduce the environmental impact of animal agriculture also. Sentiments I’m sure almost anyone with any sense would agree with.

Religion on the other hand; has no real reason to spread other than to up the numbers. And so, to modern men and women of an enlightened society; it is indeed a tough sell.

[Burwood]

LDN said:

Rovinghawk said:

LDN said:

vegans are not like religious nut jobs.

They believe that their way is the 'right' way, the only way and anyone who does not conform must be enlightened. Their beliefs are aired at the first opportunity.

They tell others how they should live their lives, generally in a condescending & critical manner.

I see strong similarities.

It depends at which point you deem a religious person a nut job. Further up the thread; someone asked what the difference is between being blown up for not following a religious belief VS eating a sausage. I said, for a start; nobody has been blown up for eating a sausage.

If the debate is on religion VS veganism in general; then the differences are obvious. Veganism has a real and tangible cause; to reduce the exploitation of animals / sentient beings and to reduce the environmental impact of animal agriculture also. Sentiments I’m sure almost anyone with any sense would agree with.

Religion on the other hand; has no real reason to spread other than to up the numbers. And so, to modern men and women of an enlightened society; it is indeed a tough sell.

I don't agree because I think you are missing the key element. Extremism. There is nothing wrong with 99.9% of religious believers and Vegans. It's the extreme ones who are dangerous. You state there is no purpose to religion. Tell that to the extreme ones. Both groups are capable of blowing things up. It all boils down to the mental state of the individual.

[LDN]

Burwood said:

LDN said:

Rovinghawk said:

LDN said:

vegans are not like religious nut jobs.

They believe that their way is the 'right' way, the only way and anyone who does not conform must be enlightened. Their beliefs are aired at the first opportunity.

They tell others how they should live their lives, generally in a condescending & critical manner.

I see strong similarities.

It depends at which point you deem a religious person a nut job. Further up the thread; someone asked what the difference is between being blown up for not following a religious belief VS eating a sausage. I said, for a start; nobody has been blown up for eating a sausage.

If the debate is on religion VS veganism in general; then the differences are obvious. Veganism has a real and tangible cause; to reduce the exploitation of animals / sentient beings and to reduce the environmental impact of animal agriculture also. Sentiments I’m sure almost anyone with any sense would agree with.

Religion on the other hand; has no real reason to spread other than to up the numbers. And so, to modern men and women of an enlightened society; it is indeed a tough sell.

I don't agree because I think you are missing the key element. Extremism. There is nothing wrong with 99.9% of religious believers and Vegans. It's the extreme ones who are dangerous. You state there is no purpose to religion. Tell that to the extreme ones. Both groups are capable of blowing things up. It all boils down to the mental state of the individual.

I agree. But I look at the evidence though; rather than make-believe scenarios... and religious nut jobs still take the biscuit; I'm sure you'll agree! And again, veganism has a cause that almost any reasonable person would agree with. Religion doesn't.

If you're saying that any person with extreme views can be dangerous; then yes; we are in agreement. I mean; someone might believe that green is better than red and proceed to target anyone wearing red. Extremism is applicable in any scenario and to any belief. Indeed; vegan activists; charities are targeted and threatened also. It's a moot point.

As well; the main difference is that; some religions specifically instruct followers to target and convert / kill non-believers. There is no vegan scripture that instructs such activity.Veganism aims to lessen the suffering of animals; highlight health issues related to meat consumption and affect the environmental impact of animal agriculture in a positive way. Extremism exists in all walks of life.

[Rovinghawk]

LDN said:

It depends at which point you deem a religious person a nut job.

It's the point at which they try to impose their views on me.

LDN said:

Sentiments I’m sure almost anyone with any sense would agree with.

So 'right-thinking' people agree with you; it's at this point that I can't respect your position. As I stated in my first post, the belief is that one side is right and any other view is wrong & requires enlightenment.

An alternative for 'anyone with any sense' is that the human body has evolved to eat a mixed diet & should be fed accordingly.

Edited by Rovinghawk on Thursday 8th November 11:48

[Resolutionary]

Derek Smith said:

I meant to ask if you eat fish as I note that it is not included in your list. I know catholics don't view it as meat. I eat fish three or four times a week, not for moral reasons, but because I like it.

Whilst I would expect that being caught in a net is not a pleasant experience, nor is being eaten by bigger fish, which would be the end of life scenario for most of the fish. I know it is trying to justify an action but I think the argument is sound.

I live near Newhaven and there's a fish shop on the west quay that sells a delightful range of freshly caught fish. Highly recommended. They taste better than farmed fish in the main. Trout, when cooked without garnish, is delightful. I remember great cod steaks in my youth, with sheep-sized joints in the fish shop. It is a bit seasonal, but they freeze their own fish for those who don't mind. I don't care what they say; I can tell the difference.

I can understand, and to a degree sympathise (not enough to stop me eating it though) with people who don't eat farmed animals. Fish, though, bemuses me. Fish based Italian cuisine is enough to justify the journey.

It's a good question - my family is Buddhist by lineage so we've always been of the mindset (albeit usually pushed way to the back of our minds) that you are what you eat; energy flows from everything into everything.

That would dictate that if you eat an animal that has suffered or spent a lifetime unhappy, you ingest that suffering and unhappiness. Although this is quantifiable to everyone but me, I do feel like those I know and love who regularly eat meat are more highly strung than those that don't.

I went pescetarian for a while in 2017, then fell back into the full on omnivorous diet again - and around Christmas I found myself watching the 'propaganda' from various animal agencies which did a number on me. The way fish are harvested from the ocean in some places is nothing short of criminal, and the collateral is heartbreaking.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love calamari, cod, mackerel, salmon, etc etc, but I default to my original argument that I don't know exactly where it comes from, how it was caught, what else happened during the process, what corners were cut etc. Add to that the fact that micro plastics are now ingrained in a lot of sea animals and I truly doubt I'll ever eat the things I used to again.

coyft said:

it's almost impossible to intellectually justify eating farmed animals.

That's beautifully put, and I agree. Hard pill to swallow for many.

roadsmash said:

I am open minded.

But my main issue with vegetarianism and veganism is all the wildlife that is killed when the fields of veg and the like are planted.

If we all became vegans, wildlife would still end up killed.

Not just by food plantation construction either; roads, cars (this is PH after all), and general building... is always going to end up killing animals.

Changing the way we eat is just the tip of the iceberg. What is the point?

Happy to debate this?

You've been told about a few good documentaries to watch, but really you can go on Youtube and end up on a downward and horribly revealing spiral by searching 'UK pig farm undercover' and going from there. The lack of compassion is simply astounding- all bought up by mainstream as well as independent retailers.

Wildlife will always be killed because of human activity, this has been the case since we figured out how to make fire.

As long as the population continues to exponentially grow, we will continue to exponentially eat - and that at present requires more and more animals which in turn means more and more land for animals, land for animal food, as well as the knock-on of additional methane etc etc. If you remove animals from the food equation, you no longer need to sacrifice lots of vegetables and feed for them, which ought to balance things out to an extent.

[LDN]

Rovinghawk said:

LDN said:

It depends at which point you deem a religious person a nut job.

It's the point at which they try to impose their views on me.

LDN said:

Sentiments I’m sure almost anyone with any sense would agree with.

So 'right-thinking' people agree with you; it's at this point that I can't respect your position. As I stated in my first post, the belief is that one side is right and any other view is wrong & requires enlightenment.

An alternative for 'anyone with any sense' is that the human body has evolved to eat a mixed diet & should be fed accordingly.

Edited by Rovinghawk on Thursday 8th November 11:48

But the core points; you've not disagreed with. The initial debate sparked because a comparison was made between being blown up for denying a religion and blown up for eating a sausage. I stated that nobody has been blown up for eating a sausage. And as far as I know; I am right. Therefore; logic dictates that; make-believe scenarios aside; the facts are that in reality; vegan extremists and religious extremists are, in fact, different. Can extremism exist in any walk of life / belief system? Of course.

You're gauge on when a religious person is nut job is fair enough; but that's your view only. Others might have a different take on that. Personally; I think a religious person is a nut job, almost by default.

[Rovinghawk]

LDN said:

the facts are that in reality; vegan extremists and religious extremists are, in fact, different.

Both commit terrorist acts- I class death threats to non-conformists as terrorism.

LDN said:

Personally; I think a religious person is a nut job, almost by default.

I agree- I can easily extend that to anyone who wishes to project their belief system onto others.

Dimly recalling food science classes from many years ago, where do you obtain the essential amino acids that are neither present in nor synthesisable from vegan sources?
If the answer is 'supplements from the chemist', where exactly does the chemist obtain them?

[RemyMartin81D]

Rovinghawk said:

LDN said:

vegans are not like religious nut jobs.

They believe that their way is the 'right' way, the only way and anyone who does not conform must be enlightened. Their beliefs are aired at the first opportunity.

They tell others how they should live their lives, generally in a condescending & critical manner.

I see strong similarities.

IN YOUR OPINION

Almost everything you post is condescending about every topic from the police almost every aspect of life

Typical dinosaur old man no doubt. How dare another tell someone a differing view. Lol hypocrite central. I will say it's a free country so you can hold and air any views you want. Really not overly bothered but I will call you out on hypocrisy.

I'm not a Vegan, I do not follow the lifestyle, I'm a motorcyclist so required to wear leather which is against those principles. That said I choose not to eat meat. I choose to believe animals are sentient beings able to feel emotions, not to give them anthropomorphic qualities but I do believe they suffer a similar emotion to what we would call fear and pain.

I also do not have the ability to stare down the barrel of a gun at any animal and pull the trigger or further get a knife or any instrument and prepare either the fallen animal or a pre killed animal.

As an unexpected bonus and nothing to do with becoming a vegetarian is my crohns has improved immeasurably.

Sadly as this case proves the idiots and extremists shout loudest, millions of veggies,vegans and meat eaters go about their business without any need to resort to these bullst. It's stty on the parts of the idiots in this case but as William Sitwell found out, it's a two way street in acting a fool and being scolded.

For the record even to this day I still acknowledge that meat was nice and I didn't give up because I didn't like it and all meat eaters, continue doing what you want the world is big enough that everyone can have and follow their beliefs.

TD:DR a simple.edit of your post to say Vegan nut jobs are like religious nut jobs.

Edited by RemyMartin81D on Thursday 8th November 12:14

[Rollin]

People get turned off by vegan hyperbole and frequent hypocrisy.

You suggest 'breastfeeding from another species is not natural'. It's just ridiculous language. Why not say that drinking milk is not natural and suggest why?

It's like me suggesting that vegans eat pig food and it's not natural. It means nothing.

I wont be watching the videos suggested either as I can predict the content. More hyperbole, mixed with probable bad science and lies. It's always the same.

Did someone suggest that veganism is considered 'macho'? Seriously, is this an argument?

[LDN]

Rollin said:

People get turned off by vegan hyperbole and frequent hypocrisy.

You suggest 'breastfeeding from another species is not natural'. It's just ridiculous language. Why not say that drinking milk is not natural and suggest why?

It's like me suggesting that vegans eat pig food and it's not natural. It means nothing.

I wont be watching the videos suggested either as I can predict the content. More hyperbole, mixed with probable bad science and lies. It's always the same.

Did someone suggest that veganism is considered 'macho'? Seriously, is this an argument?

Veganism is indeed being seen as the new macho. It's not an argument for turning veganism; but it's an observation about the changing tide. Attitudes are evolving alongside the real science coming to light. Of course you won't watch the films or educate yourself; you don't want your bubble bursting; it's a common occurrence!

[so called]

LDN said:

Veganism is indeed being seen as the new macho. It's not an argument for turning veganism; but it's an observation about the changing tide. Attitudes are evolving alongside the real science coming to light. Of course you won't watch the films or educate yourself; you don't want your bubble bursting; it's a common occurrence!

Tide?
As in complete reversal of the current situation?

[LDN]

so called said:

LDN said:

Veganism is indeed being seen as the new macho. It's not an argument for turning veganism; but it's an observation about the changing tide. Attitudes are evolving alongside the real science coming to light. Of course you won't watch the films or educate yourself; you don't want your bubble bursting; it's a common occurrence!

Tide?
As in complete reversal of the current situation?

Changing. As in 'changing'. When all else fails ey?

[bobbo89]

LDN said:

Veganism is indeed being seen as the new macho.

Yep, proper beefcakes these vegans!