Health tourism ..

Author
Discussion

princeperch

Original Poster:

7,911 posts

246 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/13/ca...

This is a very sad story. But it did seem like she was a health tourist. Should the NHS have treated her? Tricky one.

JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
princeperch said:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/13/ca...

This is a very sad story. But it did seem like she was a health tourist. Should the NHS have treated her? Tricky one.
It is why a number of countries demand you have Travel insurance that includes medical cover in place before you are granted a VISA, it avoids ethical conflicts such as this.

Interesting to know as well how soon after she came into the UK she visited the GP to "discover" she had cancer.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
No.

The letter should have advised using insurance to get home ASAP (or to cover the cost of treatment).

princeperch

Original Poster:

7,911 posts

246 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
I expect sadly for her that because she was Jamaican that was the main reason they pushed back on her (I think Jamaican nationals are well known for health tourism).

Whether she knew she was sick when she travelled remains to be seen. It's still very sad though.

Du1point8

21,604 posts

191 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
dont see why... I had an eye problem whilst snowboarding in France, they refused to give the diagnosis or the prescription until after I paid upfront.

I had travel insurance and claimed off that...

It should be mandatory that to get into the UK to visit/stay/transit through, you need travel insurance that covers all medical requirements for the time you are in this country.

If you can afford a flight, you can damn well pay for the insurance too... no insurance then your on the next flight back... no ethical issues, not our problem and the NHS doesnt end up treating the worlds health problems.

In fact Im not sure why they havent done this already.

TaylotS2K

1,964 posts

206 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
Du1point8 said:
dont see why... I had an eye problem whilst snowboarding in France, they refused to give the diagnosis or the prescription until after I paid upfront.

I had travel insurance and claimed off that...

It should be mandatory that to get into the UK to visit/stay/transit through, you need travel insurance that covers all medical requirements for the time you are in this country.

If you can afford a flight, you can damn well pay for the insurance too... no insurance then your on the next flight back... no ethical issues, not our problem and the NHS doesnt end up treating the worlds health problems.

In fact Im not sure why they havent done this already.
Yep. We're a soft touch in this country. In some ways it's to be admired. However, there are so many people only out for themselves that it's obvious people will take advantage. So yes, mandatory travel insurance should be a thing here.

FunkyNige

8,859 posts

274 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
Genuine question - where else in the world would she have been treated without proof of insurance or payment upfront? We can't be the place this happens,, can we?

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
It's funny how the health unions fight against any attempts to impose eligibility checks on patients, yet never stop going on about inadequate resources.

esxste

3,665 posts

105 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
FunkyNige said:
Genuine question - where else in the world would she have been treated without proof of insurance or payment upfront? We can't be the place this happens,, can we?
God forbid we lead the world in being compassionate civilized people, eh.

Enricogto

646 posts

144 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
FunkyNige said:
Genuine question - where else in the world would she have been treated without proof of insurance or payment upfront? We can't be the place this happens,, can we?
In many EU countries to start with, France or Italy for example. Their local NHS equivalent would have then tried to recover the cost from Jamaican authorities, in this case....

TaylotS2K

1,964 posts

206 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
esxste said:
FunkyNige said:
Genuine question - where else in the world would she have been treated without proof of insurance or payment upfront? We can't be the place this happens,, can we?
God forbid we lead the world in being compassionate civilized people, eh.
Kinda ties in with my post above. Whilst I get your sentiments, the vultures will circle if you're an easy target. And we are.

JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
esxste said:
God forbid we lead the world in being compassionate civilized people, eh.
There are words for describing operating an international health service with the resources of one country but i'm not sure those are the ones.

Given lower drugs prices, and health staff wages, in the developing world the most effective way of being "compassionate" is through the aid budget.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
Enricogto said:
In many EU countries to start with, France or Italy for example. Their local NHS equivalent would have then tried to recover the cost from Jamaican authorities, in this case....
From what I saw, the local NHS trust isnt geared up for either accepting payment or claiming on patients travel insurance.

US relative broke his arm, NHS fixed him up and he offered his Insurance details and credit card for any immediate payments.
The Drs weren't interested they said it wasn't their job and wouldn't know what to charge anyway and the admin people didnt have a clue. Also it was never followed up.









Du1point8

21,604 posts

191 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
Johnnytheboy said:
It's funny how the health unions fight against any attempts to impose eligibility checks on patients, yet never stop going on about inadequate resources.
Wonder why no-one in the NHS has the balls to do something like this, surely it would be a massive crowd pleaser and show that the NHS is starting to do stuff other than whine every year they dont have the funding?

Someone high up from NHS and the government meet and discuss a plan, then try and get it through parliament and lets see who opposes trying to clean up the NHS trying to be the WHS instead of just for the UK and its citizens.

Will... never... happen...

Im also of the mind that people wanting to come to UK to live should also pass a certain level of health check before being allowed to move here, also if they have sufficient means then once certain health is proven, private medical insurance (bupa, etc) is mandatory for X years.

All for people immigrating to UK, but for medical reasons... Nope... sorry... go find somewhere else.

esxste

3,665 posts

105 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
TaylotS2K said:
Kinda ties in with my post above. Whilst I get your sentiments, the vultures will circle if you're an easy target. And we are.
It never ceases to amaze me how people live in a world filled with uncertainty and unknowns, and yet insist that everything is absolute.

Is showing compassion in the circumstances described in the article incompatible with general policies to insist non-nationals pay their way?

The UK is far from an easy target. Getting a VISA to visit, to work here, to do business here is expensive and complicated, and laborious since the UK has sold off and downsized its embassies.

The cost to the NHS of treating non-nationals is near insignificant percentage of its annual budget. It could and should be lower; but it certainly is not an indication that we're an easy target being taken for a ride by the hordes of the world.







JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
esxste said:
The cost to the NHS of treating non-nationals is near insignificant percentage of its annual budget. It could and should be lower; but it certainly is not an indication that we're an easy target being taken for a ride by the hordes of the world.
A clarification here in that numbers associated with Health Tourism derive from when the NHS has established the patient has no entitlement to free treatment.

Anecdotally standards of enforcing this, and for required ID, vary widely throughout the country. One doctor was obliged to treat someone as UK resident when they had only a photocopied passport and a tenancy agreement written in Pharsi.

If we had a NHS card to establish entitlement to free treatment (as Spain does) then you could confidently assert the level of "health tourism"

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
If only the media and the innumerate mouth breathers spent as much time bemoaning other NHS waste as they did health tourism, we'd save tens of billions.

Instead the focus is on moans that might save a few hundred million.

John145

2,447 posts

155 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
esxste said:
It never ceases to amaze me how people live in a world filled with uncertainty and unknowns, and yet insist that everything is absolute.

Is showing compassion in the circumstances described in the article incompatible with general policies to insist non-nationals pay their way?

The UK is far from an easy target. Getting a VISA to visit, to work here, to do business here is expensive and complicated, and laborious since the UK has sold off and downsized its embassies.

The cost to the NHS of treating non-nationals is near insignificant percentage of its annual budget. It could and should be lower; but it certainly is not an indication that we're an easy target being taken for a ride by the hordes of the world.
I really doubt there is credible evidence currently either way as the NHS frontline are not interested in the cost, only the outcome.

Excellent mentality but really needs robust defence to ensure tax payer money continues to grow.

Du1point8

21,604 posts

191 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
oyster said:
If only the media and the innumerate mouth breathers spent as much time bemoaning other NHS waste as they did health tourism, we'd save tens of billions.

Instead the focus is on moans that might save a few hundred million.
Is that per year?

Well, why not start with something small that costs 200 million (could be more) to put in place and then pays for itself in 1-2 years, because those few hundred million become a few billion over the course of years, then put the money saved into sorting out the other waste.

bloomen

6,852 posts

158 months

Wednesday 14th November 2018
quotequote all
Enricogto said:
In many EU countries to start with, France or Italy for example. Their local NHS equivalent would have then tried to recover the cost from Jamaican authorities, in this case....
That might be the case for a broken arm. Would it be the same for months of cancer treatment?

I find it v strange the hospital advised against going home when it's 12 hours out of her life and then asked for tens of thousands for treatment.

Most people are skint. They burnt her chances of survival by doing that, though I've no idea why she stuck around in the face of that much indifference.