Yellow vests - fuel protest day of action in France

Yellow vests - fuel protest day of action in France

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Discussion

isaldiri

4,787 posts

112 months

Wednesday 5th December 2018
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toppstuff said:
grumbledoak said:
As if he will do anything of the sort.
Did he not bring in some property tax to hit the rich ?
No. Macron amended the existing wealth tax to only include property and effectively hand a (large) tax cut to the rich.

YankeePorker

4,575 posts

185 months

Wednesday 5th December 2018
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
This really isn't about the fuel taxes. The French are basically protesting against Macron. They wanted change but wouldn't vote in LePen, and they aren't happy with the result.
It is starting to look like Macron might be toast. He was voted in by electors from the left and the right, fed up with more of the same from their two party system. Problem is that he comes from the same administrative school as all French leaders, so has the same haughty disconnection from his people.

He came in with a mandate to reform French employment law, which was always going to be a difficult task. But it’s not the attempts to do this that have done for him.

Prior to this fuel tax the government did two things that started the dissent - reduced the ISF, a tax on the rich, and reduced the housing subventions for the poor. The scales fell from peoples’ eyes and they realised that he is effectively all about big business, in a country of socialists....

Frank7

3,388 posts

31 months

Wednesday 5th December 2018
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citizensm1th said:
Well the bar in your hotel should be fun tonight. just don't mention Waterloo, Agincourt or Mers-el-Kébir
And definitely not Diên Biên Phù.

Earthdweller

Original Poster:

2,287 posts

70 months

Wednesday 5th December 2018
quotequote all
A problem for Macron as DeGaulle summed up France

“How can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese?

I have come to the conclusion that politics are too serious a matter to be left to the politicians.

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”

The Dangerous Elk

4,642 posts

21 months

Wednesday 5th December 2018
quotequote all
Frank7 said:
citizensm1th said:
Well the bar in your hotel should be fun tonight. just don't mention Waterloo, Agincourt or Mers-el-Kébir
And definitely not Diên Biên Phù.
To be fair, forget any geography at all.


Puggit

41,621 posts

192 months

Wednesday 5th December 2018
quotequote all
Tax rises cancelled completely. Well done France.

jsf

13,399 posts

180 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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More austerity it is then. If you can't raise taxes and you have a deficit, you have to cut, when you don't have control of your currency.

One day they will wake up to the reality of the Euro and how it will force them to run a permanently contracting economy to balance out the expansionary exporting north/north east states.

Then it really will kick off.

otolith

38,314 posts

148 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Frank7 said:
And definitely not Diên Biên Phù.
Watching a Netflix documentary series about Vietnam at the moment. I knew that it had been a French colony, I didn’t realise how much France in general and de Gaulle in particular had contributed to the ensuing cluster fk post Japanese occupation.

fblm

16,422 posts

207 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
quotequote all
otolith said:
Watching a Netflix documentary series about Vietnam at the moment...
If that's the 10 part one by Ken Burns it's brilliant.

smifffymoto

2,779 posts

149 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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loafer123

8,757 posts

159 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Puggit said:
Tax rises cancelled completely. Well done France.
According to OECD figures released today, France has the highest tax burden as a percentage of GDP of any country in the world.

No wonder the pips are squeaking...

Digga

27,260 posts

227 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Derek Smith said:
Thom said:
Digga said:
I honestly believe the revolution created a void - command, control, authority - that has never since been filled.
Ever heard of Napoléon, Clémenceau or De Gaulle?
Perhaps some of them were not quite anglophile enough to make their way to your history books at school though? hehe
Indeed. One might suggest that the Gaullist era is what gave rise to the current, and historical, propensity to demonstrate at every opportunity. He was rather strict, wasn't he.

Clémenceau was the architect of the Second World War. I've not quite forgiven him for that.
Didn't end all that well for Napoleon either, did it?

My comment, regarding the void, was not that no one was ever in control, but rather that the relationship between the general population and those in charge or ownership was dislocated.

WyrleyD

1,089 posts

92 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Watched a program on French TV last night ( 2 presenters, 4 GJ protesters, a minister and some woman who had something to do with the civil service. One of the protester blokes appears to have woken up about the bloated civil service and got really angry when the government pair tried to say that all the "fonctionaires" are needed to run the civil service, hospitals, local government etc. and the high taxes are required to run all those things together with the military, police, gendarmes etc.

If France didn't have such a massive number of people employed by the state or quasi-state organisations then I'm sure the tax requirement would be lower.

Wobbegong

11,519 posts

113 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
quotequote all
WyrleyD said:
Watched a program on French TV last night ( 2 presenters, 4 GJ protesters, a minister and some woman who had something to do with the civil service. One of the protester blokes appears to have woken up about the bloated civil service and got really angry when the government pair tried to say that all the "fonctionaires" are needed to run the civil service, hospitals, local government etc. and the high taxes are required to run all those things together with the military, police, gendarmes etc.

If France didn't have such a massive number of people employed by the state or quasi-state organisations then I'm sure the tax requirement would be lower.
My ex girlfriend’s mum worked as a mayor in France. The inefficiency and high number of non-jobs made U.K. local government look good value for money hehe


RichB

42,079 posts

228 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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WyrleyD said:
...If France didn't have such a massive number of people employed by the state or quasi-state organisations then I'm sure the tax requirement would be lower.
Indeed, but then unemployment would be higher, so which is preferable?

andy_s

14,822 posts

203 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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RichB said:
Indeed, but then unemployment would be higher, so which is preferable?
Depends on how you want to manage the perception, whether you assume all non-job people couldn't be more productive in a different position and whether you think that a more competitive meritocratic system would incentivise otherwise lazy people.

[Warning - anecdotal tale] A friends posty was sacked for crashing his post van while drunk as he used to stop off to have a drink with a few people on his 'busy' round. They couldn't sack him so he now works in the main post office doing a non-job. It's the inverse of 'pour encourager les autres'.

Balmoral

31,643 posts

192 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Pamela Anderson said:
I despise violence...but what is the violence of all these people and burned luxurious cars, compared to the structural violence of the French -and global - elites?

Thom

1,691 posts

191 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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Digga said:
My comment, regarding the void, was not that no one was ever in control, but rather that the relationship between the general population and those in charge or ownership was dislocated.
Quite the opposite I would say, as access to the highest state functions after the Revolution became possible, at least theoretically, to anyone from the public. The nobles were removed probably also because many wealthy non-noble owners had had enough of centuries not being able to get more control and undergo the nonesense of a Royalty that had turned into quite a joke with a clueless monarch such as Louis XVI. In today's terms we could probably say it was quite a liberal revolution, and it's funny to think that the yellow vests are mostly motivated by opposite reasons, as it's the liberals now which have become the deaf caste of haughty leaders.

fblm

16,422 posts

207 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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RichB said:
Indeed, but then unemployment would be higher, so which is preferable?
It depends what you think the state's roll should be; employ people on good salaries and fabulous pensions to do fvck all (or worse) or pay them peanuts to sit at home and do fvck all?

otolith

38,314 posts

148 months

Thursday 6th December 2018
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fblm said:
otolith said:
Watching a Netflix documentary series about Vietnam at the moment...
If that's the 10 part one by Ken Burns it's brilliant.
Yep, that one. Very good indeed.