Yellow vests - fuel protest day of action in France

[smifffymoto]

Well,the smic(minimum wage) is going up,csg tax being altered but still the wealth tax is not coming back.
Quite simply,France will continue to burn!

[wc98]

smifffymoto said:

Well,the smic(minimum wage) is going up,csg tax being altered but still the wealth tax is not coming back.
Quite simply,France will continue to burn!

the bit i never understand with these protests is where the protesters target their ire. if they were burning down politicians personal residences, setting fire to their cars etc i could maybe see the point. trashing places ordinary punters live and their cars surely pisses off the wrong people ?

[rdjohn]

wc98 said:

the bit i never understand with these protests is where the protesters target their ire. if they were burning down politicians personal residences, setting fire to their cars etc i could maybe see the point. trashing places ordinary punters live and their cars surely pisses off the wrong people ?

You have obviously never visited Place Vandome.

In France social mobility is not a hot topic. 80% of the population have their income fixed by the minimum wage. But there is no such thing as a French entrepreneur.

A couple of examples.
The 21-year old guy who helps us with our garden cannot advertise his services on the side of his van because he does not have a recognised diploma in gardening. He is a real grafter and would make a good living in SE England. From being a young teenager he has worked every free hour (on the black) and bought all the equipment he needs to be successful. The state requires me to pay an extra €17/hr social charges on top of the €15 that I actually pay him.

My hairdresser charges €10-12 for a haircut. His Social Security payment is €2000/ month. So for the first 10 haircuts every day, he is working for the state. However, he really appreciates that his kids have good education, the trains work and, if he is ill, every effort will be made to make him well, quickly.

[RichB]

rdjohn said:

...he really appreciates that his kids have good education, the trains work and, if he is ill, every effort will be made to make him well, quickly.

Rather like here then.

[wc98]

rdjohn said:

You have obviously never visited Place Vandome.

In France social mobility is not a hot topic. 80% of the population have their income fixed by the minimum wage. But there is no such thing as a French entrepreneur.

A couple of examples.
The 21-year old guy who helps us with our garden cannot advertise his services on the side of his van because he does not have a recognised diploma in gardening. He is a real grafter and would make a good living in SE England. From being a young teenager he has worked every free hour (on the black) and bought all the equipment he needs to be successful. The state requires me to pay an extra €17/hr social charges on top of the €15 that I actually pay him.

My hairdresser charges €10-12 for a haircut. His Social Security payment is €2000/ month. So for the first 10 haircuts every day, he is working for the state. However, he really appreciates that his kids have good education, the trains work and, if he is ill, every effort will be made to make him well, quickly.

your first line is correct . how does the young gardener get away with working a lifetime in the black economy ,if that is his intention ? will he never buy a house, get credit or all the other things that require a legal financial history ?

[Trolleys Thank You]

wc98 said:

the trouble with that scenario is it doesn't support 50,000 bureaucrats and 30 to 40,000 lobbyists either kissing their arse or dishing out back handers to them.

For a population of over half a billion, that's fk all.

[RichB]

Trolleys Thank You said:

wc98 said:

the trouble with that scenario is it doesn't support 50,000 bureaucrats and 30 to 40,000 lobbyists either kissing their arse or dishing out back handers to them.

For a population of over half a billion, that's fk all.

The US is 350 mill and you can't be talking about India at over a billion so what you on about?

[Derek Smith]

RichB said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

wc98 said:

the trouble with that scenario is it doesn't support 50,000 bureaucrats and 30 to 40,000 lobbyists either kissing their arse or dishing out back handers to them.

For a population of over half a billion, that's fk all.

The US is 350 mill and you can't be talking about India at over a billion so what you on about?

508m in the EU. Whilst 1000m never used to be half a billion in the UK, it is more or less accepted now as the international norm.

[RichB]

Derek Smith said:

508m in the EU. Whilst 1000m never used to be half a billion in the UK, it is more or less accepted now as the international norm.

Don't disagree what billion is Derek, I was looking for a country with over 500m population

[johnxjsc1985]

Ironically the young seem determined to stay in the EU yet the EU is no friend to the under 25's inside the EU.
Macron is now promising a 100 Euro rise per month and look at the energy charges admitting they had justifiable grounds to protest.
The French do this very well and always seem to get a result well done to them all for having the balls to make things happen

[rdjohn]

wc98 said:

your first line is correct . how does the young gardener get away with working a lifetime in the black economy ,if that is his intention ? will he never buy a house, get credit or all the other things that require a legal financial history ?

Sorry, I have misled you. While at school he worked weekends for cash. He now has self taught skills and equipment. He cannot now move into the real economy as he would in the UK as a sole trader and earn a decent living. He would easily be able to do this in the UK. Because of restrictive practices, he cannot establish a lucrative self-employed business.

The whole scenario is a mess, so that I am now obliged to pay €27/hr for €15/hr work, but I am able to claim some tax relief.

Social charges stifle any desire to work hard, or be entrepreneurial. They are more than 45% of anyone’s pay. Tax goes on top. Raising the minimum wage by a few centimes will not redress this problem. Indirect taxes from hard-pressed take home pay ensure people can only bounce along on the bottom.

I have no idea how you break out of this, but I can see that it is a huge problem for Macron, as they only really want a magic wand solution.

[Pesty]

Russian Troll Bot said:

As much as we complain about our police being too soft a touch, at least they don't go around shoving disabled people out of their wheelchairs

https://twitter.com/TweetBrettMac/status/107171427...

If that happened in the US it would be all over the news for days.

There are clips like that all over Twitter and links in websites like this.

How progressive

[B'stard Child]

Trolleys Thank You said:

wc98 said:

the trouble with that scenario is it doesn't support 50,000 bureaucrats and 30 to 40,000 lobbyists either kissing their arse or dishing out back handers to them.

For a population of over half a billion, that's fk all.

Except that's not all of it every country making up the 500m still has it's own layer of cake as well

If the EU ran everything and we had just the equivalent of local councils in the UK I'd be OK with that.

But we don't we have a heap of government here and a heap over there and we do not need both

[smifffymoto]

Your gardener friend could always register as multi service rather then a gardener.

[WyrleyD]

rdjohn said:

wc98 said:

your first line is correct . how does the young gardener get away with working a lifetime in the black economy ,if that is his intention ? will he never buy a house, get credit or all the other things that require a legal financial history ?

Sorry, I have misled you. While at school he worked weekends for cash. He now has self taught skills and equipment. He cannot now move into the real economy as he would in the UK as a sole trader and earn a decent living. He would easily be able to do this in the UK. Because of restrictive practices, he cannot establish a lucrative self-employed business.

The whole scenario is a mess, so that I am now obliged to pay €27/hr for €15/hr work, but I am able to claim some tax relief.

Social charges stifle any desire to work hard, or be entrepreneurial. They are more than 45% of anyone’s pay. Tax goes on top. Raising the minimum wage by a few centimes will not redress this problem. Indirect taxes from hard-pressed take home pay ensure people can only bounce along on the bottom.

I have no idea how you break out of this, but I can see that it is a huge problem for Macron, as they only really want a magic wand solution.

When we first came to France in 2004 myself and my son-in-law had to attend a week long course for people setting up businesses, on the last day of the course a rep from the tax department came in to explain the tax liabilities of running a business and the different types e.g. SARL etc. It came as a bit of a surprise when he said that no small business will survive very long without doing a little bit "on the black" for cash and the tax department turned a blind eye to this as long as you didn't take the p*ss. It is indeed what I've found and it still goes on today, we had to have a bit of work done to re-align our sat dish, new cable LNB etc. and the bloke who came asked if we wanted a facture and if we did then it would be more expensive so it would be better if we paid cash.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

RichB said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

wc98 said:

the trouble with that scenario is it doesn't support 50,000 bureaucrats and 30 to 40,000 lobbyists either kissing their arse or dishing out back handers to them.

For a population of over half a billion, that's fk all.

The US is 350 mill and you can't be talking about India at over a billion so what you on about?

508m in the EU. Whilst 1000m never used to be half a billion in the UK, it is more or less accepted now as the international norm.

1000 million has never been half a billion anywhere; it still isn’t.

[Balmoral]

B'stard Child said:

If the EU ran everything and we had just the equivalent of local councils in the UK I'd be OK with that.

That's where it's going, it's refreshing to hear somone who understands that and is happy to say they're up for it too.

Countries will only exist in a historical cultural context, there will be no Nation States with their own governments. That is the point of the EU, it is what it is for, that's how you end war, by removing the National interest, and you do that by removing the Nation States themselves, that's the next half of the plan and this comes when members are so dependant they've gone past the point of no return and cannot escape even if they want to. Meanwhile everyone and their dog focuses on the infinitessimally trivial issue (in comparison) of a short term economic shock.

[PositronicRay]

Balmoral said:

B'stard Child said:

If the EU ran everything and we had just the equivalent of local councils in the UK I'd be OK with that.

That's where it's going, it's refreshing to hear somone who understands that and is happy to say they're up for it too.

Countries will only exist in a historical cultural context, there will be no Nation States with their own governments. That is the point of the EU, it is what it is for, that's how you end war, by removing the National interest, and you do that by removing the Nation States themselves, that's the next half of the plan and this comes when members are so dependant they've gone past the point of no return and cannot escape even if they want to. Meanwhile everyone and their dog focuses on the infinitessimally trivial issue (in comparison) of a short term economic shock.

I think I'm with Mr Child on this.

[Europa1]

Derek Smith said:

Whilst 1000m never used to be half a billion in the UK, it is more or less accepted now as the international norm.

I'm not sure 1,000m was ever half a billion anywhere?

[Getragdogleg]

PositronicRay said:

Balmoral said:

B'stard Child said:

If the EU ran everything and we had just the equivalent of local councils in the UK I'd be OK with that.

That's where it's going, it's refreshing to hear somone who understands that and is happy to say they're up for it too.

Countries will only exist in a historical cultural context, there will be no Nation States with their own governments. That is the point of the EU, it is what it is for, that's how you end war, by removing the National interest, and you do that by removing the Nation States themselves, that's the next half of the plan and this comes when members are so dependant they've gone past the point of no return and cannot escape even if they want to. Meanwhile everyone and their dog focuses on the infinitessimally trivial issue (in comparison) of a short term economic shock.

I think I'm with Mr Child on this.

In a utopia it seems like it might be a good idea but in real life it is doomed.

The central government would be so far removed from the ordinary person that it would be difficult to challenge any poor legislation, rules made up to suit one region could have a negative impact on others.

You also have the problem of an unchecked political elite. with a super state you have a huge top heavy layer of untouchable politicians.

People are corrupt, they get away with what they can, this is why its a bad idea to have communism and why its also a bad idea to try a centralised superstate.