Yellow vests - fuel protest day of action in France

Yellow vests - fuel protest day of action in France

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Discussion

tangerine_sedge

2,310 posts

180 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
I'm as guilty of that as everyone else, what I don't like is when I have some hipster gobbing off about how the right have killed society while sitting in a cafe in Hamstead with his Macbook drinking a £5 coffee before trotting back across the heath to his £2,000,000 house with a Range Rover sitting outside.
(1) hipsters are unlikely to own big houses or big cars, they are more likely to be working in the coffee shops.

(2) sounds like the politics of envy.

amusingduck

9,010 posts

98 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
(*1) still have no definition of who these elites are, probably just anybody who is doing better than them, aka good old fashioned socialist envy.
A cynic would think you were deliberately avoiding educating yourself as to what the definition is, to allow you to continue to make "misinformed" quips like that wink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_elite#United...

Here you go, there's a start.

gizlaroc

16,126 posts

186 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
(1) hipsters are unlikely to own big houses or big cars, they are more likely to be working in the coffee shops.

(2) sounds like the politics of envy.
Yeah of course they don't own big houses or big cars.

Maybe the early hipsters worked in coffee shops in Shoreditch 15 years ago. Not now.

tangerine_sedge

2,310 posts

180 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
amusingduck said:
tangerine_sedge said:
(*1) still have no definition of who these elites are, probably just anybody who is doing better than them, aka good old fashioned socialist envy.
A cynic would think you were deliberately avoiding educating yourself as to what the definition is, to allow you to continue to make "misinformed" quips like that wink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_elite#United...

Here you go, there's a start.
Thats the definition of 'liberal elite'. Not the same.

Edited to add : responded too quickly. Is it only the left leaning and educated elite, or is it also the capitalistic 'born with a silver spoon' lot too? I'm really struggling to understand what straw-man enemy you are trying to build. Who are the yellow vests supposed to be against?



Edited by tangerine_sedge on Tuesday 22 January 14:51

tangerine_sedge

2,310 posts

180 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
tangerine_sedge said:
(1) hipsters are unlikely to own big houses or big cars, they are more likely to be working in the coffee shops.

(2) sounds like the politics of envy.
Yeah of course they don't own big houses or big cars.

Maybe the early hipsters worked in coffee shops in Shoreditch 15 years ago. Not now.
Hipsters can be found in cities, towns and villages up and down the country. Walk into any coffee shop and you can almost guarantee being served by one.

Now, about this politics of envy that is being displayed....

amusingduck

9,010 posts

98 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
amusingduck said:
tangerine_sedge said:
(*1) still have no definition of who these elites are, probably just anybody who is doing better than them, aka good old fashioned socialist envy.
A cynic would think you were deliberately avoiding educating yourself as to what the definition is, to allow you to continue to make "misinformed" quips like that wink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_elite#United...

Here you go, there's a start.
Thats the definition of 'liberal elite'. Not the same.
Literally the first six words of the section I linked

A British synonym is metropolitan elite

gizlaroc

16,126 posts

186 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
Hipsters can be found in cities, towns and villages up and down the country. Walk into any coffee shop and you can almost guarantee being served by one.

Now, about this politics of envy that is being displayed....
Where is it you live/work?


A hipster is not some coffee shop worker with a waxed moustache, dungarees and a penny farthing for transport.
He may have been 20 years ago, but he was mid twenties then, he is now 45 earns a fortune, has the house and the cars and is caught up in the material world like the rest of us, the difference is he still thinks he is a hipster and preaches as if he is scraping together the pennies and saying how terrible those are who are materialistic. wobble

I'm not making this up, I work with them every day.

tangerine_sedge

2,310 posts

180 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
amusingduck said:
tangerine_sedge said:
amusingduck said:
tangerine_sedge said:
(*1) still have no definition of who these elites are, probably just anybody who is doing better than them, aka good old fashioned socialist envy.
A cynic would think you were deliberately avoiding educating yourself as to what the definition is, to allow you to continue to make "misinformed" quips like that wink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_elite#United...

Here you go, there's a start.
Thats the definition of 'liberal elite'. Not the same.
Literally the first six words of the section I linked

A British synonym is metropolitan elite
What about the ones that live in the Cotswolds? Are they metropolitan elite too? Who are you trying to make me hate?

Damn, it was easier in the old days, when it was just the jewish bankers we needed to kick out!

gizlaroc

16,126 posts

186 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
tangerine_sedge said:
What about the ones that live in the Cotswolds? Are they metropolitan elite too? Who are you trying to make me hate?

Damn, it was easier in the old days, when it was just the jewish bankers we needed to kick out!
There is simply a divide happening that is getting bigger and bigger.
One of the issues though is so many see it is those who simply earn more than them that are the cause and never consider they may be part of the problem.

I include myself in that. I'm quite happy to live in denial.

I just wish people would be honest.


Lucas Ayde

2,388 posts

130 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
There is simply a divide happening that is getting bigger and bigger.
One of the issues though is so many see it is those who simply earn more than them that are the cause and never consider they may be part of the problem.

I include myself in that. I'm quite happy to live in denial.

I just wish people would be honest.
The unique thing about the yellow vests (and probably what has enabled them to keep going for so long) is that it isn't just one set of people with their own cause - it's a mixture of left AND right leaning people who have woken up to how they are being screwed over by the establishment and a banker stooge who has been manoeuvred into place (courtesy of an effective two party/choices system) to lead their country.

How lucky for the establishment of most of our 'democracies' that the public have been encouraged into getting outraged about being offended by use of language or gendered bathroom facilities rather than having time to sit down and realise how their freedoms and wealth is coming under attack and being chipped away. At least the French public have their heads screwed on.


Frank7

6,619 posts

49 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all


My friend in Montpelier rather likes Macron, this is her daughter, prior to going out to tease les gilets jaunes.

Digga

32,536 posts

245 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
Lucas Ayde said:
gizlaroc said:
There is simply a divide happening that is getting bigger and bigger.
One of the issues though is so many see it is those who simply earn more than them that are the cause and never consider they may be part of the problem.

I include myself in that. I'm quite happy to live in denial.

I just wish people would be honest.
The unique thing about the yellow vests (and probably what has enabled them to keep going for so long) is that it isn't just one set of people with their own cause - it's a mixture of left AND right leaning people who have woken up to how they are being screwed over by the establishment and a banker stooge who has been manoeuvred into place (courtesy of an effective two party/choices system) to lead their country.

How lucky for the establishment of most of our 'democracies' that the public have been encouraged into getting outraged about being offended by use of language or gendered bathroom facilities rather than having time to sit down and realise how their freedoms and wealth is coming under attack and being chipped away. At least the French public have their heads screwed on.
I may have linked to it before, but it is an excellent article on the subject: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-21/gilets-j...

Christophe Guilluy said:
‘Peripheral France’ is about the geographic distribution of the working classes across France. Fifteen years ago, I noticed that the majority of working-class people actually live very far away from the major globalised cities – far from Paris, Lyon and Toulouse, and also very far from London and New York.

Technically, our globalised economic model performs well. It produces a lot of wealth. But it doesn’t need the majority of the population to function. It has no real need for the manual workers, labourers and even small-business owners outside of the big cities. Paris creates enough wealth for the whole of France, and London does the same in Britain. But you cannot build a society around this. The gilets jaunes is a revolt of the working classes who live in these places.

They tend to be people in work, but who don’t earn very much, between 1000€ and 2000€ per month. Some of them are very poor if they are unemployed. Others were once middle-class. What they all have in common is that they live in areas where there is hardly any work left. They know that even if they have a job today, they could lose it tomorrow and they won’t find anything else.
Nail. Head.

gizlaroc

16,126 posts

186 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
Frank7 said:


My friend in Montpelier rather likes Macron, this is her daughter, prior to going out to tease les gilets jaunes.
Going out to tease those that are getting left behind, hopefully the pool is heated so she can cleanse herself when she gets back.

gizlaroc

16,126 posts

186 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
Digga said:
Nail. Head.
Yeah great article, I posted it last week after it appeared on Spiked.

Digga

32,536 posts

245 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
Digga said:
Nail. Head.
Yeah great article, I posted it last week after it appeared on Spiked.
Describes far more than just les Gilets Jaune.

Lucas Ayde

2,388 posts

130 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
Digga said:
I may have linked to it before, but it is an excellent article on the subject: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-21/gilets-j...

Christophe Guilluy said:
‘Peripheral France’ is about the geographic distribution of the working classes across France. Fifteen years ago, I noticed that the majority of working-class people actually live very far away from the major globalised cities – far from Paris, Lyon and Toulouse, and also very far from London and New York.

Technically, our globalised economic model performs well. It produces a lot of wealth. But it doesn’t need the majority of the population to function. It has no real need for the manual workers, labourers and even small-business owners outside of the big cities. Paris creates enough wealth for the whole of France, and London does the same in Britain. But you cannot build a society around this. The gilets jaunes is a revolt of the working classes who live in these places.

They tend to be people in work, but who don’t earn very much, between 1000€ and 2000€ per month. Some of them are very poor if they are unemployed. Others were once middle-class. What they all have in common is that they live in areas where there is hardly any work left. They know that even if they have a job today, they could lose it tomorrow and they won’t find anything else.
Nail. Head.
No point being richer than Croesus if you don't have a load of people providing the modern infrastructure for you to enjoy your wealth on. It's probably objectively better to be a middle class person in a developed country today than it was to be the King in 0AD for example.

The real worry comes as automation takes over. There will come a point when the rich (who will own the machines) don't have much need for the masses to provide them with the underlying basics and luxuries of a developed civilisation.

In the meantime, let the plebs fight over non-issues as long as they don't ask any actual tricky questions.



Digga

32,536 posts

245 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
Lucas Ayde said:
The real worry comes as automation takes over. There will come a point when the rich (who will own the machines) don't have much need for the masses to provide them with the underlying basics and luxuries of a developed civilisation.
This is the elephant in the room for both FOM and economic migration, to the West, from the developing world.

We may be at a cross-over point, where economic growth can be sustained without additional workers, let alone maintaining current levels of employment or remuneration. AI and robotics are developing extremely quickly.

WyrleyD

1,316 posts

110 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
Digga said:
Nail. Head.
Yeah great article, I posted it last week after it appeared on Spiked.
Agreed, a very accurate and concise analysis.

majordad

3,339 posts

159 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
Very good article. It’s the same in Ireland, Dublin’s greater area houses at times upmtom1/3rd of the country’s population. Provincial towns are dying on their feet.
Our politicians want us to abandon our coal fires and diesel cars and become vegan to lower our emissions, they don’t realise that us in rural Ireland need all these, not for now at any rate.
They want us to cycle around on push bikes,forgetting it’s wet and cold and windy and the town is miles away. Instead they focus on referendums on Gay marriage , allowing Irish people living for decades in foreign countries to vote in our domestic elections.

Edited by majordad on Tuesday 22 January 16:22

gizlaroc

16,126 posts

186 months

Tuesday 22nd January 2019
quotequote all
Digga said:
Describes far more than just les Gilets Jaune.
Exactly.


It covers what is happening all over the world so succinctly, however it is a truth that many simply don't want to acknowledge, problem is, while you may not be at the bottom of the food chain now, you probably be will be in a few years time. Let's see how they feel about it then.