How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 6)

[anonymous-user]

ash73 said:

Max_Torque said:

We are also now able to vote from a position of certain knowledge of what "deal" is offered by the EU

As I keep saying, we won't know that for another two years; the FTA hasn't been negotiated yet.

Will you want another referendum then as well?

Yes, that sounds ideal.

The current situation is like trying to negotiate to buy a car, but without ever having seen or driven it, and having to wait for two years after signing on the line and paying for it before you actually know what you have bought. Hence all the trouble........

[popeyewhite]

gregs656 said:

I don't agree with any of that. We've come a long way in two years. There is nothing undemocratic about asking the same question twice,

Of course there is, if people had known there was going to be another referendum if the result didn't go the way certain people wanted do you think they would still have bothered to vote in the first place?

Astonishing.

[mikal83]

Helicopter123 said:

Driving home tonight, Lord Hesaltine was on LBC making a very powerful case for a People’s Vote. He was pointing out that since the 2016 vote many older predominantly Brexit voters will have died, while many young enthusiastic remain voters have reached voting age. Surely they should have a voice?

Very interesting argument from a widely respected politician.

Really..
my niece is 14, should we wait for any upcoming elections etc so she can vote?

[pistonheads2018]

mikal83 said:

Really..
my niece is 14, should we wait for any upcoming elections etc so she can vote?

I guess it depends which way she is going to vote.

[Russian Troll Bot]

mikal83 said:

Helicopter123 said:

Driving home tonight, Lord Hesaltine was on LBC making a very powerful case for a People’s Vote. He was pointing out that since the 2016 vote many older predominantly Brexit voters will have died, while many young enthusiastic remain voters have reached voting age. Surely they should have a voice?

Very interesting argument from a widely respected politician.

Really..
my niece is 14, should we wait for any upcoming elections etc so she can vote?

My nephews are just about to turn 5, I trust we will have another People's Vote in 2031 so they can have a say in their future

[ExVantagemech..]

Troubleatmill said:

Helicopter123 said:

Driving home tonight, Lord Hesaltine was on LBC making a very powerful case for a People’s Vote. He was pointing out that since the 2016 vote many older predominantly Brexit voters will have died, while many young enthusiastic remain voters have reached voting age. Surely they should have a voice?

Very interesting argument from a widely respected politician.

Do you have a gofundme page?
I think some of us would like to help out.

That is one of the most ridiculous statements regurgitated all too frequently.
You are assuming that old = voted brexit = dying
What about old = voted remain =dying? Or does that not come into your narrow minded vision?
What about those that didnt vote the first time, perhaps they wont vote again? Who knows.
Lets just wait 40 years for another referendum eh? Perhaps then there will be more leave voters.
Oh, wait - thats about the time from when my parents were given the EEC vote in the 70's and now, see how thats turned out?

[don'tbesilly]

kurt535 said:

pistonheads2018 said:

Max_Torque said:

Investigate? You realise that the majority of the population struggle to tie their own shoelaces right?

Speak for yourself. It still fails to explain how things will be different under a second referendum.

Maybe a remain vote will mean companies such as Shaeffler won't close their doors in plymouth and wales with a loss of 600+ jobs due to brexit? Ah nearly forgot, Auto Trail might not make redundancies either as people resume buying their camper vans for long holidays back in europe.

Edited by kurt535 on Monday 10th December 22:13

What about the big Pharma company in Surrey that located back in July 2016 that you posted about, you've named both Shaeffler and Auto Trail above can you now name the company you posted about back in 2016?

Post from July 10th 2016:

kurt535 said:

minor snap-shot. family pal's scientist partner works at big pharmaceutical surrey way; she (along with whole dept) has already been offered relocation to either sweden or switzerland to take place in next 6 months....yes, it was due to brexit.

What was the name of the company?

[anonymous-user]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/10721...

She’s making her party look
like idiots. Not difficult in some cases... but how can they put up with it. Do they have no shame ?

[dr_gn]

Russian Troll Bot said:

mikal83 said:

Helicopter123 said:

Driving home tonight, Lord Hesaltine was on LBC making a very powerful case for a People’s Vote. He was pointing out that since the 2016 vote many older predominantly Brexit voters will have died, while many young enthusiastic remain voters have reached voting age. Surely they should have a voice?

Very interesting argument from a widely respected politician.

Really..
my niece is 14, should we wait for any upcoming elections etc so she can vote?

My nephews are just about to turn 5, I trust we will have another People's Vote in 2031 so they can have a say in their future

Maybe you could ask them if they’d rather have a nice strawberry milkshake, or a cardboard box that might contain: a milkshake with a flake, or a steaming pile of dog st.

See what their answer is...and try to learn from them.

[Helicopter123]

Lord Heseltine very well respected. I think those who dismiss his argument simply because they disagree with his hypothesis do themselves no favours.

[don'tbesilly]

dr_gn said:

Russian Troll Bot said:

mikal83 said:

Helicopter123 said:

Driving home tonight, Lord Hesaltine was on LBC making a very powerful case for a People’s Vote. He was pointing out that since the 2016 vote many older predominantly Brexit voters will have died, while many young enthusiastic remain voters have reached voting age. Surely they should have a voice?

Very interesting argument from a widely respected politician.

Really..
my niece is 14, should we wait for any upcoming elections etc so she can vote?

My nephews are just about to turn 5, I trust we will have another People's Vote in 2031 so they can have a say in their future

Maybe you could ask them if they’d rather have a nice strawberry milkshake, or a cardboard box that might contain: a milkshake with a flake, or a steaming pile of dog st.

See what their answer is...and try to learn from them.

That might be what you'd do, it's unlikely any others would though.

Keep it classy!

[kurt535]

don'tbesilly said:

kurt535 said:

pistonheads2018 said:

Max_Torque said:

Investigate? You realise that the majority of the population struggle to tie their own shoelaces right?

Speak for yourself. It still fails to explain how things will be different under a second referendum.

Maybe a remain vote will mean companies such as Shaeffler won't close their doors in plymouth and wales with a loss of 600+ jobs due to brexit? Ah nearly forgot, Auto Trail might not make redundancies either as people resume buying their camper vans for long holidays back in europe.

Edited by kurt535 on Monday 10th December 22:13

What about the big Pharma company in Surrey that located back in July 2016 that you posted about, you've named both Shaeffler and Auto Trail above can you now name the company you posted about back in 2016?

Post from July 10th 2016:

kurt535 said:

minor snap-shot. family pal's scientist partner works at big pharmaceutical surrey way; she (along with whole dept) has already been offered relocation to either sweden or switzerland to take place in next 6 months....yes, it was due to brexit.

What was the name of the company?

Ah, there you are. As previously discussed, they are long gone. I have no family/friend association with the other companies. Actually, Im going out there to see them in the new year. Shall I give them your regards?

[pistonheads2018]

kurt535 said:

Ah, there you are. As previously discussed, they are long gone. I have no family/friend association with the other companies. Actually, Im going out there to see them in the new year. Shall I give them your regards?

Which company? I have a former uni mate working in Pharma, based in Surrey. They certainly haven’t moved anywhere - who are you referring to?

[Tuna]

Helicopter123 said:

Lord Heseltine very well respected. I think those who dismiss his argument simply because they disagree with his hypothesis do themselves no favours.

He might be well respected, but that doesn't seem to stop him spouting nonsense which has been discussed at length on these forums, and even in this thread.

Your calls to authority would have more effect if they included new information, not just repeats of stuff you agree with.

[anonymous-user]

Russian Troll Bot said:

mikal83 said:

Helicopter123 said:

Driving home tonight, Lord Hesaltine was on LBC making a very powerful case for a People’s Vote. He was pointing out that since the 2016 vote many older predominantly Brexit voters will have died, while many young enthusiastic remain voters have reached voting age. Surely they should have a voice?

Very interesting argument from a widely respected politician.

Really..
my niece is 14, should we wait for any upcoming elections etc so she can vote?

My nephews are just about to turn 5, I trust we will have another People's Vote in 2031 so they can have a say in their future

I respectfully suggest that you may be missing the point of his assertion, which is really that the 2.5 years since the original vote is long enough to have changed the voter demographic. By how much is a different question. Roughly 600,000 people die each year, so 2.5 years is 1.5 million. No one is suggesting that all the dead old people voted leave, but there is clear evidence from voter surveys that many did. So, that could form a statistically significant proportion of voters, given the relatively narrow margins in the original vote.

The other point is that our system of voting makes no seperation between young and old, when descisions of this magnitude do have a very different effect on the young and old. Someone who is 65 today, retired, probably on a reasonably final salary pension, who owns their own house is likely to be affected in a very different way from someone 18 today, who was 15.5 in June 16, and who has their entire life and earning potential ahead of them.

If the system should consider those weightings is a different matter, but it certainly is sufficient to suggest young and old people do and would vote for different reasons in any vote on their future.......

[philv]

andy_s said:

Helicopter123 said:

Driving home tonight, Lord Hesaltine was on LBC making a very powerful case for a People’s Vote. He was pointing out that since the 2016 vote many older predominantly Brexit voters will have died, while many young enthusiastic remain voters have reached voting age. Surely they should have a voice?

Very interesting argument from a widely respected politician.

There may be good arguments for a second bite of the cherry, but that's not one of them. He does understand how age works doesn't he? Do we say people shouldn't vote in a GE if they are over 70 as they probably won't be affected and let 13 year olds vote because they will?

So -
Tne referendum was invalid.
We voted to be in tne eu decades ago,
Tnat should obviously stand for eternity.
No matter what change in voters or circumstances.

[anonymous-user]

popeyewhite said:

Of course there is, if people had known there was going to be another referendum if the result didn't go the way certain people wanted do you think they would still have bothered to vote in the first place?

Astonishing.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous to the average voter tbh. We have an general election every 5 years (or sooner if their is a "no confidence" scenario) and people vote in those even though they know absolutely they will be voting again on the same subject in another 5 years.

Realistically, 2.5 years, given the changes in the political landscape and the general populations understanding of what Brexit actually means seems plenty long enough for people to have changed (or not) their minds.

[pistonheads2018]

Max_Torque said:

I think you're being a bit disingenuous to the average voter tbh. We have an general election every 5 years (or sooner if their is a "no confidence" scenario) and people vote in those even though they know absolutely they will be voting again on the same subject in another 5 years.

Realistically, 2.5 years, given the changes in the political landscape and the general populations understanding of what Brexit actually means seems plenty long enough for people to have changed (or not) their minds.

“A once in a lifetime opportunity...”

[andy_s]

philv said:

andy_s said:

Helicopter123 said:

Driving home tonight, Lord Hesaltine was on LBC making a very powerful case for a People’s Vote. He was pointing out that since the 2016 vote many older predominantly Brexit voters will have died, while many young enthusiastic remain voters have reached voting age. Surely they should have a voice?

Very interesting argument from a widely respected politician.

There may be good arguments for a second bite of the cherry, but that's not one of them. He does understand how age works doesn't he? Do we say people shouldn't vote in a GE if they are over 70 as they probably won't be affected and let 13 year olds vote because they will?

So -
Tne referendum was invalid.
We voted to be in tne eu decades ago,
Tnat should obviously stand for eternity.
No matter what change in voters or circumstances.

I'm not sure what you mean? We voted to be in the EU decades ago, it didn't stand for an eternity because we got another vote on it a few years ago - not sure if you remember?. The change in the voters after 40 years was substantial and the changes in the EEC/EU have been substantial.
This isn't the case here I don't think; it appears most people want to leave and we're in that process.

[don'tbesilly]

kurt535 said:

don'tbesilly said:

kurt535 said:

pistonheads2018 said:

Max_Torque said:

Investigate? You realise that the majority of the population struggle to tie their own shoelaces right?

Speak for yourself. It still fails to explain how things will be different under a second referendum.

Maybe a remain vote will mean companies such as Shaeffler won't close their doors in plymouth and wales with a loss of 600+ jobs due to brexit? Ah nearly forgot, Auto Trail might not make redundancies either as people resume buying their camper vans for long holidays back in europe.

Edited by kurt535 on Monday 10th December 22:13

What about the big Pharma company in Surrey that located back in July 2016 that you posted about, you've named both Shaeffler and Auto Trail above can you now name the company you posted about back in 2016?

Post from July 10th 2016:

kurt535 said:

minor snap-shot. family pal's scientist partner works at big pharmaceutical surrey way; she (along with whole dept) has already been offered relocation to either sweden or switzerland to take place in next 6 months....yes, it was due to brexit.

What was the name of the company?

Ah, there you are. As previously discussed, they are long gone. I have no family/friend association with the other companies. Actually, Im going out there to see them in the new year. Shall I give them your regards?

So with your friends long gone why, and despite asking repeatedly won't you name the company?

What was the name of the company that your friends no longer work and the story of the big Pharma company relocating appeared in the local press?