How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 6)

How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 6)

TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED
Author
Discussion

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Crackie said:
Please, please, please answer this question.

What, in your view, is the status quo?
The status quo is the status quo, it does not need explaining nor magic words. You do understand this, don’t you?

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
The status quo is the status quo
Not any more. One of 'ems dead.

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
Crackie said:
Please, please, please answer this question.

What, in your view, is the status quo?
The status quo is the status quo, it does not need explaining nor magic words. You do understand this, don’t you?
Gotcha. So you've finally given up with the peoples vote and have embraced that the UK is leaving on 29/03/19?

Good job friend, I'm glad you got there in the end smile

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
janesmith1950 said:
Helicopter123 said:
The status quo is the status quo
Not any more. One of 'ems dead.
yikes

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
YankeePorker said:
Just for info., because I only read it in the French press so maybe not highlighted in the U.K. yet, 71% of the EU parliament have voted through a resolution demanding that Martin Selmayr resigns. As you are all aware, he was landed in the job of Sec Gen of the EU Commission in a very dodgy way, with Druncker basically pushing his acolyte into place.

The resolution is not binding on the Commission, but does at least show a bit of back bone in the Euro Deputies.

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2018/...
From the little I know IMO they should sack him and those that appointed him without following proper procedures ...that would show backbone.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
wisbech said:
Eh, and given how different NI is to mainland in things like abortion and same sex marriage laws, but DUP don’t complain about that, don’t see why have different customs to the mainland is any worse - so a sea border makes sense

There is precedent - HK has different customs regime to mainland China, but is a sovereign part of China.
The border issue is probably the easiest element of the GFA to sort out:

https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/sites/default/...

There are far reaching constitutional issues, and even with the border issue resolved, likely the agreement will collapse. An innate element is that the people of Northern Ireland will be forever British and Irish, irrespective of the future of the Province (ie. even if reunification occurs, the people can still retain British citizenship). The Agreement rests on the principal, presumably because Westminster has made such a mess of things, that Rights are guaranteed by EU Law, and there is the argument as to why anyone born an Irish citizen be deprived of their rights by the British state

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
Crackie said:
Please, please, please answer this question.

What, in your view, is the status quo?
The status quo is the status quo
I thought we were meant to laugh at May for saying "Brexit means Brexit"? laugh

Nickgnome

8,277 posts

88 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Tuna said:
Helicopter123 said:
Crackie said:
Please, please, please answer this question.

What, in your view, is the status quo?
The status quo is the status quo
I thought we were meant to laugh at May for saying "Brexit means Brexit"? laugh
I’m sure if you will recall your Latin, that you will remember Statu quo is an abbreviation.

To the best of my recollection I do not remember being taught Brexit.

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Can we stop banging on about the Status Quo hehe
If there is one example of something not being the status quo it's Status Quo
Only one original member

Crackie

6,386 posts

241 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
Crackie said:
Please, please, please answer this question.

What, in your view, is the status quo?
The status quo is the status quo, it does not need explaining nor magic words. You do understand this, don’t you?
I'll ignore the sanctimonious tw@tery at the end of your post...…...You are happy with plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose; those who understand the EU's long term goals are not.


PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Crackie said:
I'll ignore the sanctimonious tw@tery at the end of your post...…...You are happy with plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose; those who understand the EU's long term goals are not.
Why should anyone that understands the EU's long term goals be opposed to them?

Why can't people be happy with a closer union?

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Crackie said:
I'll ignore the sanctimonious tw@tery at the end of your post...…...You are happy with plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose; those who understand the EU's long term goals are not.
I believe the best deal open to us is the one agreed by Thatcher and May, the one with the rebate, veto, + opt outs on the single currency and Schengen.

You can only help shape the future of the EU from within.

This looks like a far better plan than the May deal, which would see us as rule takers with no influence at all.



Pan Pan Pan

9,777 posts

110 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Could it be that the majority vote in the UK to leave the EU, was because the `status quo' was always a sh*t deal for the UK in the first place?
From all the Brexit negotiations It now seems that what would be deemed a good deal by the EU is a sh*t deal for the UK, and what would be deemed a good deal for the UK would be deemed a sh*t deal by the EU, So now we have proof that the being in the EU is a bad deal for the UK. smile

wc98

10,334 posts

139 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
youngsyr said:
Maybe you could help clarify things for me then, after all this is a discussion forum, isn't it? confused

Can we start with how you have controls 25 miles from the border that somehow can select those who are going to pass the controls and cross the border but ignore those who are going to pass the controls but not cross the border?

What happens if you pass the controls, say you're not going to cross the border and so are waived through with tariffed/banned goods, but then go and cross the border?
i think a lot of the confusion around a potential "border" is due to people mixing up free movement of people vs free movement to live and work in the uk. i don't know anyone in favour of scrapping free movement of people. those with an opinion on free movement of labour seem to prefer similar controls to those used by most countries outside the eu.

for technical details on goods moving between borders seek out posts by dave poth and the comments discussing the issue with him.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
I believe the best deal open to us is the one agreed by Thatcher and May, the one with the rebate, veto, + opt outs on the single currency and Schengen.
A deal that only holds water if it's accepted we can walk away. If we show we cannot walk away, it's no longer the same deal, is it?

"We find the changes proposed are not acceptable..."

"What are you going to do about it, Brexit?" (laughter all around)

wc98

10,334 posts

139 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Why should anyone that understands the EU's long term goals be opposed to them?

Why can't people be happy with a closer union?
twenty years ago i think most would have agreed with you. i know i thought it was a good idea. as usual, empire building politicians screwed it up by believing their own hype. maybe if there was a way of disappearing people when they showed any intention of becoming a politician things would be better ? we could start with all those that apply to university to do a ppe degree wink

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Nickgnome said:
Tuna said:
Helicopter123 said:
Crackie said:
Please, please, please answer this question.

What, in your view, is the status quo?
The status quo is the status quo
I thought we were meant to laugh at May for saying "Brexit means Brexit"? laugh
I’m sure if you will recall your Latin, that you will remember Statu quo is an abbreviation.

To the best of my recollection I do not remember being taught Brexit.
Funnily enough, I do recall my Latin. It doesn't prevent 'copter's post from being fatuous, does it?

Or are you just as immune to the point being made as he is?

otis criblecoblis

1,078 posts

65 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
You can only help shape the future of the EU from within.
The Remainer in Chief tried this under threat of leaving in a referendum. He failed,they told him to like it or lump it, the public voted that the old way was dead, Remainer in Chief did a runner. The EU made clear the direction of travel after the result.
Both Thatcher's and Cameron's terms were rejected at a referendum.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
There is a bit of a contradiction between:

"Those idiot Brexiteers thought the EU would do what we want! Of course they wouldn't!"

and

"We can reform from within, we have a veto!"

Rather like "We'll win the Eurovision this year!"... biggrin

mattmurdock

2,204 posts

232 months

Tuesday 18th December 2018
quotequote all
Tuna said:
There is a bit of a contradiction between:

"Those idiot Brexiteers thought the EU would do what we want! Of course they wouldn't!"

and

"We can reform from within, we have a veto!"

Rather like "We'll win the Eurovision this year!"... biggrin
Surely everyone understands that telling someone you are leaving them, and then trying to negotiate with them, is going to have a marked difference from staying in the relationship and trying to make it work better.

Neither may be successful depending on the parties involved, but one surely is more likely to achieve success, no?

TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED