Triple child killer cleared for release
Discussion
The death penalty also incurs costs [above those of a typical life sentence] as inmates spend on average 15 years incarcerated during the appeals process anyway, let alone the trial. [McVae was something like $10M]
Multiple factors;
Basic 'human rights'/double standard of value of life. [Values of society]
Inevitable wrongful conviction [substantive amount]
An offender more likely to commit multiple murders [nothing to lose].
The criminological fact that offenders aren't dissuaded by sentence but by chance of being caught [normal risk perception].
Responsibility of Jurors [knowing their decision may lead to a death sentence, perhaps wrongly]
Retribution is a. not practised on an eye-for-an-eye basis for other crimes and b. morally worse than the crime committed [Camus]
Mental health/responsibility of act [put down a mad dog, but a mad human...?]
Cost [it isn't cheaper]
You can argue a few of those points, but the substantive ones remain.
Multiple factors;
Basic 'human rights'/double standard of value of life. [Values of society]
Inevitable wrongful conviction [substantive amount]
An offender more likely to commit multiple murders [nothing to lose].
The criminological fact that offenders aren't dissuaded by sentence but by chance of being caught [normal risk perception].
Responsibility of Jurors [knowing their decision may lead to a death sentence, perhaps wrongly]
Retribution is a. not practised on an eye-for-an-eye basis for other crimes and b. morally worse than the crime committed [Camus]
Mental health/responsibility of act [put down a mad dog, but a mad human...?]
Cost [it isn't cheaper]
You can argue a few of those points, but the substantive ones remain.
Someone answer me this
If someone arrived at the scene as this man was impaling the 3rd body on a steel spike and dragged him to the ground before beating him to death, what would the outcome of the court case have possibly been?
Many people would have beaten this man to death if witnessing what he was doing
Would those people be classed as a danger to society?
If someone arrived at the scene as this man was impaling the 3rd body on a steel spike and dragged him to the ground before beating him to death, what would the outcome of the court case have possibly been?
Many people would have beaten this man to death if witnessing what he was doing
Would those people be classed as a danger to society?
Penelope Stopit said:
La Liga said:
Assuming you mean it'd be unlawful, it'd be murder / manslaughter.
We don't worry too much about people who may act unlawfully in the most extreme circumstances. We worry about those who act unlawfully in normal circumstances.
Who's we?We don't worry too much about people who may act unlawfully in the most extreme circumstances. We worry about those who act unlawfully in normal circumstances.
I think it's fair to say society doesn't worry too much about how theoretically dangerous a person is prior to them acting in a theoretical way when they experience the most extreme theoretical circumstances.
The specificity, theoretical and improbable nature are at odds as to what you'd class a danger to society.
How can you state, "Many people would have beaten this man to death if witnessing what he was doing"? That's your foundation, based on what?
La Liga said:
Penelope Stopit said:
La Liga said:
Assuming you mean it'd be unlawful, it'd be murder / manslaughter.
We don't worry too much about people who may act unlawfully in the most extreme circumstances. We worry about those who act unlawfully in normal circumstances.
Who's we?We don't worry too much about people who may act unlawfully in the most extreme circumstances. We worry about those who act unlawfully in normal circumstances.
I think it's fair to say society doesn't worry too much about how theoretically dangerous a person is prior to them acting in a theoretical way when they experience the most extreme theoretical circumstances.
The specificity, theoretical and improbable nature are at odds as to what you'd class a danger to society.
How can you state, "Many people would have beaten this man to death if witnessing what he was doing"? That's your foundation, based on what?
Thanks for explaining the "we" as it did confuse me
La Liga said:
Yes, but they're still killing someone. On the scale of ‘assault’ it’s rather higher than the pain they’re so concerned about!
OK.Look at it another way then.
Those doing the executing don't want to be seen as sadists.
Most people wouldn't accept that.
Also, if there's an audience to the execution, most of them probably would not want to witness suffering or anything too extreme.
It's a way of trying to sanitise the act.
Quick and over and done with.
Red 4 said:
La Liga said:
Yes, but they're still killing someone. On the scale of ‘assault’ it’s rather higher than the pain they’re so concerned about!
OK.Look at it another way then.
Those doing the executing don't want to be seen as sadists.
Most people wouldn't accept that.
Also, if there's an audience to the execution, most of them probably would not want to witness suffering or anything too extreme.
It's a way of trying to sanitise the act.
Quick and over and done with.
Bigends said:
Its the states role to kill them once sentence is passed - not to cause pain or unnecessary injury. English hanging ropes had the nooses lined with soft leather to avoid rope burns and marking the convicted persons body. The job of the hangman was to break the neck - not mutilate the body - strange but true.
Depends on how far back you go of course..... As the hanging drawing and quartering range was somewhat different........ Interesting fact (at least according to the research I read) - Guy Fawkes jumped up and across so his fall was far enough to break his neck to cheat the hangman of the drawing and quartering alive...
Penelope Stopit said:
Halb said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Halb said:
they're all nutso?
I didn't comment this
Interesting.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk...
Independent said:
The UK has more prisoners serving life sentences than any other country in Europe, according to a new report by the Prison Reform Trust.
There are 8,554 inmates across the UK serving life sentences – more than France, Germany and Italy combined. The British total also exceeds the number of life-sentence prisoners held in jails in Russia and Turkey.
I wonder if a "life sentence" here is the same as a "life sentence" in those countries?There are 8,554 inmates across the UK serving life sentences – more than France, Germany and Italy combined. The British total also exceeds the number of life-sentence prisoners held in jails in Russia and Turkey.
Halb said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Halb said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Halb said:
they're all nutso?
I didn't comment thisYamas
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