How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)

How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)

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Scrump

Original Poster:

4,165 posts

97 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Volume 6 lasted less than 6 weeks. type
Please keep the discussion away from personal insults. argue

Tuna

9,704 posts

223 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
It's going to get worse before it gets better.

76 days till Brexit and the vast majority of people have not changed their position since the Referendum.

In the mean time, we're going to see politicians, commentators and others claiming black is white just to try and get their way. Ho hum.

PurpleMoonlight

14,841 posts

96 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
Tuna said:
I don't think anyone voted for an incompetent government.
Be fair, all recent Governments have been incompetent so why would that change because of brexit.

Even BC had that on his list.

biggrin

otis criblecoblis

411 posts

5 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
Scrump said:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Volume 6 lasted less than 6 weeks. type
Please keep the discussion away from personal insults. argue
Fat chance, the stitch has to be done now because no one will bother voting to rejoin the EU in the future.

tumble dryer

1,300 posts

66 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
Scrump said:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Volume 6 lasted less than 6 weeks. type
Please keep the discussion away from personal insults. argue
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PurpleMoonlight

14,841 posts

96 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
Who is now unbanned?

Tuna

9,704 posts

223 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Tuna said:
I don't think anyone voted for an incompetent government.
Be fair, all recent Governments have been incompetent so why would that change because of brexit.

Even BC had that on his list.

biggrin
I think in volume 1 of this thread I predicted we'd see some political Darwinism in action - we've had a few decades of comfortable stability and growth, and that allowed us to get quite complacent about the people we put in power. Now even ignoring Brexit we live in interesting times, economically and politically. It makes it much harder for politicians to deliver tea and cake, so 'the man on the street' is going to be far less forgiving of the ones that fail to deliver.

bitchstewie

19,315 posts

149 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
Tuna said:
It's a fantasy that either side was voting for a known, set-in-stone, economically rosey, full employment and home in time for tea outcome.
I'm sorry as you're usually quite pragmatic but I profoundly disagree with you on this point.

That's exactly what was being promised.

I notice we're on volume 7 so probably little point re-quoting Fox, Davis, Boris, Gove but not one of them promised the current mess at the time, though there's some excellent revisionism going on now where apparently "everyone knew it wasn't going to be easy".

As one of the muppets who does occasionally like to remind people that "I thought we were taking back control" what's wrong with pointing that out given it was what people voted to do?

Actions have consequences and every now and then I get a little bit sick of seeing people trying to absolve themselves of all responsibility by blaming anyone and everyone but themselves.

I guess I imagined this.


loafer123

7,965 posts

154 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
Without compulsory voting (which, incidentally, I support), it can only ever be 50% of those who vote.

As for Leave being an extreme view, I would remind you that the vote was whether to remain or leave and that the government said that Leave would be leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union.

PurpleMoonlight

14,841 posts

96 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
Tuna said:
I think in volume 1 of this thread I predicted we'd see some political Darwinism in action - we've had a few decades of comfortable stability and growth, and that allowed us to get quite complacent about the people we put in power. Now even ignoring Brexit we live in interesting times, economically and politically. It makes it much harder for politicians to deliver tea and cake, so 'the man on the street' is going to be far less forgiving of the ones that fail to deliver.
Hope so.

People can only vote for those willing to do the job though. How do we make the job more attractive?

bitchstewie

19,315 posts

149 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
Tuna said:
I think in volume 1 of this thread I predicted we'd see some political Darwinism in action - we've had a few decades of comfortable stability and growth, and that allowed us to get quite complacent about the people we put in power. Now even ignoring Brexit we live in interesting times, economically and politically. It makes it much harder for politicians to deliver tea and cake, so 'the man on the street' is going to be far less forgiving of the ones that fail to deliver.
I think that's true but I also think as well as being less forgiving there's a temptation to go for the quick fix.

There just isn't one.

PurpleMoonlight

14,841 posts

96 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
Without compulsory voting (which, incidentally, I support), it can only ever be 50% of those who vote.

As for Leave being an extreme view, I would remind you that the vote was whether to remain or leave and that the government said that Leave would be leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union.
Your extreme view is that every single leave voter voted for the hardest of hard brexit.

They didn't.

gadgetmac

5,020 posts

47 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
So the commons votes against Mays deal but also comes to a consensus that it won’t accept a no-deal brexit.

I know it’s simplistic but how do you tell your negotiating adversary that you will not accept a no-deal situation?

They’ve offered a deal and we’ve refused it.

If they hold their stance surely thats what we will have, a no-deal brexit in March, whether we like it or not.

confused

The Dangerous Elk

4,642 posts

16 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Who is now unbanned?
Me it seems...I am of course suitably chastised by the punishment I received for using the word "stupid".

loafer123

7,965 posts

154 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
loafer123 said:
Without compulsory voting (which, incidentally, I support), it can only ever be 50% of those who vote.

As for Leave being an extreme view, I would remind you that the vote was whether to remain or leave and that the government said that Leave would be leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union.
Your extreme view is that every single leave voter voted for the hardest of hard brexit.

They didn't.
I am just reminding you what the vote was. Remain or Leave. Simple as that.

You seem to be in denial that there was more to it.

Can you explain to me why, given the simplicity of the referendum question?

PurpleMoonlight

14,841 posts

96 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
The Dangerous Elk said:
Me it seems...I am of course suitably chastised by the punishment I received for using the word "stupid".
Welcome back then.

Be a good boy this time.

thumbup

The Dangerous Elk

4,642 posts

16 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Welcome back then.

Be a good boy this time.

thumbup
Me ?....now who is being St##id !

oh st...done it again .....I will get my coat.

PurpleMoonlight

14,841 posts

96 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
I am just reminding you what the vote was. Remain or Leave. Simple as that.

You seem to be in denial that there was more to it.

Can you explain to me why, given the simplicity of the referendum question?
May's deal is leaving the EU.

I trust you are therefore supporting it.

loafer123

7,965 posts

154 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
loafer123 said:
I am just reminding you what the vote was. Remain or Leave. Simple as that.

You seem to be in denial that there was more to it.

Can you explain to me why, given the simplicity of the referendum question?
May's deal is leaving the EU.

I trust you are therefore supporting it.
If the choice is that or Remain, I support it.

However, May’s awful deal is not the only option to Leave.

PurpleMoonlight

14,841 posts

96 months

Saturday 12th January
quotequote all
gadgetmac said:
So the commons votes against Mays deal but also comes to a consensus that it won’t accept a no-deal brexit.

I know it’s simplistic but how do you tell your negotiating adversary that you will not accept a no-deal situation?

They’ve offered a deal and we’ve refused it.

If they hold their stance surely thats what we will have, a no-deal brexit in March, whether we like it or not.

confused
It's so typical MP's. They don't understand what they have done.

They don't want a no deal exit but their previous actions mean they cannot stop it because it is the default failing any other process.
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