How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)

How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)

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The Dangerous Elk

4,642 posts

27 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
loafer123 said:
In the spirit of positiveness, I am also not particularly worried about the backstop itself.

The issue is that, without an end to the backstop, we have no negotiation power. They can hold us to ransom until we agree to their terms.

The issue with Mays Deal is the problem of being forced to keep using the EU tariffs rather being able to do our own trade deals. That is definitely not what Leave means.
No, they have to negotiate the new trade agreement in good faith.

I'm sure the EU don't want this all dragging on for years as we don't.
The "Eu" leaders (will say) they will not want that I agree, idealogical adherence to the political the "Project" will force it to happen by default however.


PurpleMoonlight

18,368 posts

107 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
The political agreement says we basically remain in the Customs Union, and good faith is subjective.

It is a terrible deal from a negotiation standpoint.
Only if you view it with prejudice and mistrust.

Don't forget it locks the EU to us as much as us to the EU.

The Dangerous Elk

4,642 posts

27 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Only if you view it with prejudice and mistrust.

Don't forget it locks the EU to us as much as us to the EU.
LOL, parrot ?

Guess why they proposed it ?

NoNeed

14,945 posts

150 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
loafer123 said:
The political agreement says we basically remain in the Customs Union, and good faith is subjective.

It is a terrible deal from a negotiation standpoint.
Only if you view it with prejudice and mistrust.

Don't forget it locks the EU to us as much as us to the EU.
I think both sides are so entrenched that it is impossible for them to see how good mays deal is

loafer123

9,485 posts

165 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
loafer123 said:
The political agreement says we basically remain in the Customs Union, and good faith is subjective.

It is a terrible deal from a negotiation standpoint.
Only if you view it with prejudice and mistrust.

Don't forget it locks the EU to us as much as us to the EU.
Leave. We don’t want to be locked to them, we voted to Leave.

On the backstop, if they really are showing good faith, why can’t they be sure that the deal will be done in five year? The answer is that they would lose dominant negotiating power without an indefinite backstop.

I may be cynical, but you are definitely naive.

PurpleMoonlight

18,368 posts

107 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
The Dangerous Elk said:
The "Eu" leaders (will say) they will not want that I agree, idealogical adherence to the political the "Project" will force it to happen by default however.
The EU27 want free trade with the UK, and visa versa.

The proposed UK:EU free trade area does that, they don't need the backstop.

It's there to protect Ireland.

ITP

1,149 posts

147 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
It’s all about control. Legal control. The May deal leaves the EU in control, they can stop us making our own trade deals if they want. Well, we can make deals, but not actually enact them!

That is not leaving at all. We are still being dictated to by the EU. Leaving means the EU having no control over the UK, it’s a simple as that.

I can’t believe anyone though the EU would offer a good deal for us, it was always going to be bad, meaning we have to leave with no deal.

Except with 75% of MP’s being remain they were always going to engineer us staying in, which is what we are seeing play out before us now. Be it Mays deal, which is like remain, or actually remaining.


Garvin

3,167 posts

127 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Garvin said:
On what basis don’t you see this? If the EU aren’t going to lock us in why did they insist on it?
Everything I have read and watched on TV, in particular Cox's statement to the HoC.

It's not a backstop if it's time limited.
I wasn’t aware the backstop is time limited. Please direct me to where this is defined.

NoNeed

14,945 posts

150 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
Garvin said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Garvin said:
On what basis don’t you see this? If the EU aren’t going to lock us in why did they insist on it?
Everything I have read and watched on TV, in particular Cox's statement to the HoC.

It's not a backstop if it's time limited.
I wasn’t aware the backstop is time limited. Please direct me to where this is defined.
he has not said it is

PurpleMoonlight

18,368 posts

107 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
Leave. We don’t want to be locked to them, we voted to Leave.

On the backstop, if they really are showing good faith, why can’t they be sure that the deal will be done in five year? The answer is that they would lose dominant negotiating power without an indefinite backstop.

I may be cynical, but you are definitely naive.
We are leaving.

Because they cannot control the UK's conduct so are looking to protect trade.


PurpleMoonlight

18,368 posts

107 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
Garvin said:
I wasn’t aware the backstop is time limited. Please direct me to where this is defined.
Where have I claimed it is?

ITP

1,149 posts

147 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
loafer123 said:
Leave. We don’t want to be locked to them, we voted to Leave.

On the backstop, if they really are showing good faith, why can’t they be sure that the deal will be done in five year? The answer is that they would lose dominant negotiating power without an indefinite backstop.

I may be cynical, but you are definitely naive.
We are leaving.

Because they cannot control the UK's conduct so are looking to protect trade.
By making sure with the WA they can still stop us from implementing our own trade deals if they want.

turbobloke

88,028 posts

210 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
The answer is that they would lose dominant negotiating power without an indefinite backstop..
Exactly.

Whatever happens the EZ/EU are facing troubled times and might think about narrowing down the number of fronts they're fighting on.

PurpleMoonlight

18,368 posts

107 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
ITP said:
By making sure with the WA they can still stop us from implementing our own trade deals if they want.
The proposed UK:EU free trade area does not prohibit us effecting FTA's with the RoW.

davepoth

29,395 posts

149 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Only if you view it with prejudice and mistrust.

Don't forget it locks the EU to us as much as us to the EU.
And what negatives does that bring to the EU exactly?

loafer123

9,485 posts

165 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
loafer123 said:
Leave. We don’t want to be locked to them, we voted to Leave.

On the backstop, if they really are showing good faith, why can’t they be sure that the deal will be done in five year? The answer is that they would lose dominant negotiating power without an indefinite backstop.

I may be cynical, but you are definitely naive.
We are leaving.

Because they cannot control the UK's conduct so are looking to protect trade.
I completely agree on their motivation, I just don’t believe that is acceptable to us. We are better to Leave and negotiate a Free trade deal just like any other 3rd country would.



PurpleMoonlight

18,368 posts

107 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
davepoth said:
And what negatives does that bring to the EU exactly?
Free and unfettered access to the SM.

PurpleMoonlight

18,368 posts

107 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
I completely agree on their motivation, I just don’t believe that is acceptable to us. We are better to Leave and negotiate a Free trade deal just like any other 3rd country would.
Really?

You want to go from free trade, to tariff trade, to free trade?

What will that cost the UK tax payer?

What will that cost the UK to EU exporters?

don'tbesilly

8,823 posts

113 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Who is now unbanned?
You should be able to give a list.

steve_k

579 posts

155 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
Lets just be honest Brexit is going to be a stitch up, we wont be leaving well not in any meaningful way, the can will be kicked down the road.

The next few general elections will be quite interesting as new parties form and existing ones disappear.


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