Tenant's Rights
Discussion
Some background. I have been renting a house for close to 4 years now, it's a nice house and the rent is the best part of £3500 per month.
In late October I was away and my daughter called on the Saturday to say there was crack in the lounge room ceiling and water was dripping through. I told her to turn off the water and I arranged the emergency plumber. Later that evening she called to say it was bowing and overnight the ceiling partially collapsed leaving a hole of around a metre square. The emergency plumber isolated the leak on the Sunday and came back on Monday to repair the problem which was a feed pipe to the cistern in an ensuite. On Tuesday the builder came to quote for repairs.
It seems that a combination of the original builders sweeping all their rubbish into the ceiling and the ceiling originally being artexed meant there was alot of water soaked up before it appeared below. It was a huge mess. We are lucky enough to have a study so we moved the TV and some furniture in there.
Fast forward a week, I call the managing agent to find out when the builders are going to start and he said the Landlord has decided to put in an insurance claim. Another week passes and the insurers want a report from the plumber which I have and send over. Another week passes and the insurance company wants photos of the damage which I send over straight away. Another week and the insurance company say it has to be escalated. Eventually a Loss Adjuster is appointed, has a look and approves straight away saying he doesn't know why he is involved.
Six weeks to get an approval to get the work done. But now the builder has filled his diary and can't start until sometime in February. As this is 3.5 months since the damage I have asked for a rent reduction. The insurers say no as 6 weeks is a reasonable time to approve the repair and they will only pay a rent reduction if the house is uninhabitable.
I decided this is unfair and withheld my December rent. The managing agents said I have to pay (which I do) and it is just tough.
I have to pay the full rent despite not having full use of what I am renting.
Finally, to my question, do I have any rights at all to a rent reduction or do I just have to suck it up?
In late October I was away and my daughter called on the Saturday to say there was crack in the lounge room ceiling and water was dripping through. I told her to turn off the water and I arranged the emergency plumber. Later that evening she called to say it was bowing and overnight the ceiling partially collapsed leaving a hole of around a metre square. The emergency plumber isolated the leak on the Sunday and came back on Monday to repair the problem which was a feed pipe to the cistern in an ensuite. On Tuesday the builder came to quote for repairs.
It seems that a combination of the original builders sweeping all their rubbish into the ceiling and the ceiling originally being artexed meant there was alot of water soaked up before it appeared below. It was a huge mess. We are lucky enough to have a study so we moved the TV and some furniture in there.
Fast forward a week, I call the managing agent to find out when the builders are going to start and he said the Landlord has decided to put in an insurance claim. Another week passes and the insurers want a report from the plumber which I have and send over. Another week passes and the insurance company wants photos of the damage which I send over straight away. Another week and the insurance company say it has to be escalated. Eventually a Loss Adjuster is appointed, has a look and approves straight away saying he doesn't know why he is involved.
Six weeks to get an approval to get the work done. But now the builder has filled his diary and can't start until sometime in February. As this is 3.5 months since the damage I have asked for a rent reduction. The insurers say no as 6 weeks is a reasonable time to approve the repair and they will only pay a rent reduction if the house is uninhabitable.
I decided this is unfair and withheld my December rent. The managing agents said I have to pay (which I do) and it is just tough.
I have to pay the full rent despite not having full use of what I am renting.
Finally, to my question, do I have any rights at all to a rent reduction or do I just have to suck it up?
Dicky Knee said:
I decided this is unfair and withheld my December rent. The managing agents said I have to pay (which I do) and it is just tough.
I have to pay the full rent despite not having full use of what I am renting.
Finally, to my question, do I have any rights at all to a rent reduction or do I just have to suck it up?
This isn't how law works. You pay it, then you go to small claims court.I have to pay the full rent despite not having full use of what I am renting.
Finally, to my question, do I have any rights at all to a rent reduction or do I just have to suck it up?
mehmehmeh said:
Dicky Knee said:
I decided this is unfair and withheld my December rent. The managing agents said I have to pay (which I do) and it is just tough.
I have to pay the full rent despite not having full use of what I am renting.
Finally, to my question, do I have any rights at all to a rent reduction or do I just have to suck it up?
This isn't how law works. You pay it, then you go to small claims court.I have to pay the full rent despite not having full use of what I am renting.
Finally, to my question, do I have any rights at all to a rent reduction or do I just have to suck it up?
In Australia if I had done this as a landlord I would have been in front of the Rent Tribunal weeks ago, ordered to fix it immediately and the tenants would have been awarded a rent reduction until it was fixed. I thought it may be something similar in the UK.
I mistakenly thought that if I paid rent on the whole house there would be some sort of obligation to fix things quickly when they go wrong but that doesn't seem to be the case.
keirik said:
why cant you use the room? its only a hole in the ceiling not the floor.
sounds reasonable that the landlord wants the insurance company to deal with it,
as for withholding the rent, you pay to rent a house not to use specific rooms.
A big hole (as the plumber pulled down a chunk more looking for the leak) with a toilet and shower above it but technically it is usable.sounds reasonable that the landlord wants the insurance company to deal with it,
as for withholding the rent, you pay to rent a house not to use specific rooms.
Entirely reasonable to use insurance but 6 weeks to approve a claim for a couple of thousand?
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
You might get something, but you need to pay rent, ask for some of it back, and if you don’t get it be prepared to go the small claims route.
You might get something, but you need to pay rent, ask for some of it back, and if you don’t get it be prepared to go the small claims route.
Sounds like it's an unfortunate circumstance but sh-wotsit-it happens and the agent has done what they should.
Landlord is behaving as I'd expect with an insurance claim.
What does your contract say about rent reductions? Can you honestly say that the room is uninhabitable? I doubt it ....
A useful rule of thumb is to ask what you would do if you owned the house. Would you have claimed on your insurance? I suspect you would. Would you have managed to make things go any quicker? Probably not. Would you have stopped living in the house as it was genuinely uninhabitable or would you have put a brave face on the hole in the lounge ceiling in order to save money?
Landlord is behaving as I'd expect with an insurance claim.
What does your contract say about rent reductions? Can you honestly say that the room is uninhabitable? I doubt it ....
A useful rule of thumb is to ask what you would do if you owned the house. Would you have claimed on your insurance? I suspect you would. Would you have managed to make things go any quicker? Probably not. Would you have stopped living in the house as it was genuinely uninhabitable or would you have put a brave face on the hole in the lounge ceiling in order to save money?
rgf100 said:
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
You might get something, but you need to pay rent, ask for some of it back, and if you don’t get it be prepared to go the small claims route.
Thanks. That is exactly what I needed to know.You might get something, but you need to pay rent, ask for some of it back, and if you don’t get it be prepared to go the small claims route.
Dicky Knee said:
A big hole (as the plumber pulled down a chunk more looking for the leak) with a toilet and shower above it but technically it is usable.
Good. Sounds like it could be a lot worse. We don't want to go making a drama out of a crisis. Dicky Knee said:
Entirely reasonable to use insurance but 6 weeks to approve a claim for a couple of thousand?
Entirely believable. Insurance firms can be very slow, no matter how big the claim. Throw in Christmas and New Year and it's more and more believable. You have no rights to a rent deduction at all.
LL is right in making a claim and you simply have to put up with reasonable delays.
However.
If you were my tenant, paying £3.5K pm, of 4 years standing, then I'd be calling in for a chat and we would come to an agreement to make you feel valued.
Not all LL's are as nice as me though.
LL is right in making a claim and you simply have to put up with reasonable delays.
However.
If you were my tenant, paying £3.5K pm, of 4 years standing, then I'd be calling in for a chat and we would come to an agreement to make you feel valued.
Not all LL's are as nice as me though.
Sir Bagalot said:
You have no rights to a rent deduction at all.
LL is right in making a claim and you simply have to put up with reasonable delays.
However.
If you were my tenant, paying £3.5K pm, of 4 years standing, then I'd be calling in for a chat and we would come to an agreement to make you feel valued.
Not all LL's are as nice as me though.
Exactly you pay some £168k on time over 4 years even if that is market rate basic legal entitlements are a long way away from what you should be talking about.LL is right in making a claim and you simply have to put up with reasonable delays.
However.
If you were my tenant, paying £3.5K pm, of 4 years standing, then I'd be calling in for a chat and we would come to an agreement to make you feel valued.
Not all LL's are as nice as me though.
Dicky Knee said:
rgf100 said:
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
You might get something, but you need to pay rent, ask for some of it back, and if you don’t get it be prepared to go the small claims route.
Thanks. That is exactly what I needed to know.You might get something, but you need to pay rent, ask for some of it back, and if you don’t get it be prepared to go the small claims route.
You will note that they say you "may claim" for xy and z. You can claim whatever you like - doesn't mean it is correct or will be upheld in a court.
If you do go via the court route then you will be given notice to leave I would be quite sure of. This may or may not then cost you more to move out/find somewhere else.
As a Letting Agent my best recommendation forward for you is to write to the owner and ask for some discount for the inconvenience you have had. Its taken a fair time to resolve but it sounds like you have had use of the room except for a few days? is that correct? although there is big hole in the ceiling.
I would be asking for say £300 - £400 ie a 10% of 1 mth. If the owner is sensible then they may agree, if not then you can jump up and down and go to court and may or may not win but then get given notice to leave.
Cant imagine a court awarding anything more then £250 to £500 - What have you decided to do if anything?
Thankfully scumbags at Shelter (honestly, what planet are some people on?) have advice on revenge evictions also
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
rgf100 said:
Thankfully scumbags at Shelter (honestly, what planet are some people on?) have advice on revenge evictions also
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
Which wouldn't apply here so the Op could end up being forced to leave if the landlord chose to go down that route. https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
I don't know enough about Shelter's work to say one way or another but they are not a very efficient charity. Someone needs to do what they do.
rgf100 said:
Thankfully scumbags at Shelter (honestly, what planet are some people on?) have advice on revenge evictions also
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
The real planet, in the real business of lettings. How about you? Do you actually know anything about Shelter? why would you if you don't read what they push and do. I don't blame you for not knowing.https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repa...
Carry out some research at what Shelter actual do, their policies and how they are damaging the PRS. Shelter look and act like they are part of Momentum.
Some useful reading about shelters view on the PRS and comments from others that have to deal with the aftermath of Shelter. https://www.propertyindustryeye.com/?s=shelter
I am fully in support of helping homeless/tenants and would recommend "Crisis" as a much better and non political charity. https://www.crisis.org.uk/
Just to also enlighten - the tenant is given a booklet which is called "How to Rent" by the agent at the start of the tenancy which gives useful information and what do do if they are not happy or things go wrong. OP have a look at this.
In additions tenants are also given details of which professional body the agent belongs to and their redress scheme also useful if they think an agent has not acted correctly.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 17th January 13:09
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 17th January 13:10
I had this exact scenario barely 6 months ago.
Tenant phoned agency to say ceiling collapsed.
Tradesman went to have a look and told letting agent total job inc redec. would be about £1500.
I phoned insurance broker and told them that as the dwelling was occupied I'd be doing the work immediately.
This required only two things: 1) Taking a very exact and extensive photographic catalogue of the damage/work required.
2) Producing a very detailed and comprehensive costing for the job.
Underwriters took their time investigating/administering etc but payment came after about 12 weeks.
If the insurers had insisted on the usual palaver of quotes etc (they don't bother sending adjusters out for works under £3k) it would probably have taken 4-6 weeks to get job authorisation, so I'd have given the tenant a bung for the inconvenience.
YOUR agents did not do it this way because they are cocks. And the landlord didn't give you a bung because he's a mean
. Anything else is what you want to believe.
Tenant phoned agency to say ceiling collapsed.
Tradesman went to have a look and told letting agent total job inc redec. would be about £1500.
I phoned insurance broker and told them that as the dwelling was occupied I'd be doing the work immediately.
This required only two things: 1) Taking a very exact and extensive photographic catalogue of the damage/work required.
2) Producing a very detailed and comprehensive costing for the job.
Underwriters took their time investigating/administering etc but payment came after about 12 weeks.
If the insurers had insisted on the usual palaver of quotes etc (they don't bother sending adjusters out for works under £3k) it would probably have taken 4-6 weeks to get job authorisation, so I'd have given the tenant a bung for the inconvenience.
YOUR agents did not do it this way because they are cocks. And the landlord didn't give you a bung because he's a mean
. Anything else is what you want to believe.Edited by selmahoose on Thursday 17th January 13:40
Sir Bagalot said:
You have no rights to a rent deduction at all.
LL is right in making a claim and you simply have to put up with reasonable delays.
However.
If you were my tenant, paying £3.5K pm, of 4 years standing, then I'd be calling in for a chat and we would come to an agreement to make you feel valued.
Not all LL's are as nice as me though.
Sometimes LL trust an agency to manage and they just pee tenants off thinking the landlords is the only important person in the relationship!LL is right in making a claim and you simply have to put up with reasonable delays.
However.
If you were my tenant, paying £3.5K pm, of 4 years standing, then I'd be calling in for a chat and we would come to an agreement to make you feel valued.
Not all LL's are as nice as me though.
At that rent you would assume its its higher end rental and you be treated better.
I would expect a temporary patch in the meantime but sometimes a good repair by a builder will take a while as good builders tend to have 2-3 months work booked.
As said no matter what issues you have not paying rents puts you in breach of any tenancy and is the single worst things you can do when a dispute arises!
This time frame is not unusual or though I would expect a temporary patch
If it makes the OP feel any better (it won't, although the difference is the she's an owner rather than tenant) my daughter has had a leak in her bathroom ceiling from the upstairs flat.
It first appeared around 18 months ago and despite a few attempts at resolving, the actual leak wasn't fixed until September last year. This is a posh, marina waterside flat with very chunky annual maintenance charges.
She's had large sections of her ceiling removed for exploratory and access work for almost a year now. The leak was eventually traced to a few dodgy connections on the soil stack - so we're not talking clean, fresh water seeping its way into the ceiling, walls and posh wooden flooring for 18 months. The room stinks and its all got to go in the skip.
Yesterday saw the third separate insurance assessor visit for yet another look. No idea why. You'd think it would be a straightforward claim from the insurance the building holds (and every leaseholder pays in to), but for some reason they're dragging their feet over it.
The onsite maintenance guys are tearing their hair out at the delays and are extremely apologetic but helpless.
If a start date for repairs isn't produced after this latest visit we will be forced into exploring legal action.
So, a few months? Could be worse.
It first appeared around 18 months ago and despite a few attempts at resolving, the actual leak wasn't fixed until September last year. This is a posh, marina waterside flat with very chunky annual maintenance charges.
She's had large sections of her ceiling removed for exploratory and access work for almost a year now. The leak was eventually traced to a few dodgy connections on the soil stack - so we're not talking clean, fresh water seeping its way into the ceiling, walls and posh wooden flooring for 18 months. The room stinks and its all got to go in the skip.
Yesterday saw the third separate insurance assessor visit for yet another look. No idea why. You'd think it would be a straightforward claim from the insurance the building holds (and every leaseholder pays in to), but for some reason they're dragging their feet over it.
The onsite maintenance guys are tearing their hair out at the delays and are extremely apologetic but helpless.
If a start date for repairs isn't produced after this latest visit we will be forced into exploring legal action.
So, a few months? Could be worse.
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