Was Hitler really right wing?

Author
Discussion

Isaac Hunt

Original Poster:

9,470 posts

150 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
A number of us have been touching on this in a different thread.

Think of Hilter and the Nazis and every time they are categorised as right wing. However, there are a number of people who are questioning this. The political compass makes this comment.

"In our home page we demolished the myth that authoritarianism is necessarily “right wing”, with the examples of Robert Mugabe, Pol Pot and Stalin. Similarly Hitler, on an economic scale, was not an extreme right-winger. His economic policies were broadly Keynesian, and to the left of some of today’s Labour parties. If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground."

Norman Tebbit also wrote this article in the Telegraph.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=undefin...

Is it time to debunk the myth?

alock

3,698 posts

150 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
I think of the political spectrum as a horseshoe rather than a line. The two ends are remarkably close in many ways. There is a lot of pain and misery for the majority of the population if you get too near either end.

Trolleys Thank You

848 posts

20 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
Yes [/thread]

Tune in tomorrow when Isaac asks whether the Pope really is Catholic.

Edited by Trolleys Thank You on Saturday 19th January 13:07

s2art

17,006 posts

192 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
authoritarian left wing, similar to Stalin. The communists took the means of production into the state whereas the Nazis just controlled the means of production without confiscating them.

Trolleys Thank You

848 posts

20 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
Adolf Hitler said:
Left-wing politicians in particular are constantly insisting that their craven-hearted and obsequious foreign policy necessarily results from the disarmament of Germany, whereas the truth is that this is the policy of traitors ...
Not forgetting that Hitler actively sought support of business leaders by arguing that private enterprise is incompatible with democracy.

Yea, that Hitler was a proper lefty.
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BrassMan

1,218 posts

128 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
A hardcore nationalist with some socialist-type economic policies?
Hated socialists and marxists?

Right wing but probably to the left of the left of the stereotype PHer?

Isaac Hunt

Original Poster:

9,470 posts

150 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
Trolleys Thank You]Yes [/thread said:
Tune in tomorrow when Isaac asks whether the Pope really is Catholic.

Edited by Trolleys Thank You on Saturday 19th January 13:07
So why do people associate him with the right wing?

Is this a massive manipulation by the left to smear the right?

El stovey

25,158 posts

202 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
Hitler’s always been a tricky one for the more right wing on PHs.

They like to say nothing good has ever come from the left and they point out Stalin and Pol Pot etc. Then Lefties point out Hitler and (and other dictators) etc and the right wingers have to say yeah but Hitler was actually a lefty because he was a national socialist. hehe


Vanden Saab

1,864 posts

13 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
If you are far left he was right wing. If you are far right he was left wing. If you are normal he was a ...

El stovey

25,158 posts

202 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
Isaac Hunt said:
Trolleys Thank You]Yes [/thread said:
Tune in tomorrow when Isaac asks whether the Pope really is Catholic.

Edited by Trolleys Thank You on Saturday 19th January 13:07
So why do people associate him with the right wing?

Is this a massive manipulation by the left to smear the right?
Yes it’s lefties trying to smear the right. Like all the right wing terrorists and any right winger doing anything wrong are really lefty false flags.

PositronicRay

14,289 posts

122 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
This right wing, left wing thing is interesting. The political model we have far right, centre, far left. The assumption is that you can neatly fit people into the pigeon holes. The reality is many just don't, you'll find some right wingers, with one or two far left views, and vice versa. It doesn't make them centralise.

Part of the problem with politics today.

glazbagun

9,319 posts

136 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
PositronicRay said:
This right wing, left wing thing is interesting. The political model we have far right, centre, far left. The assumption is that you can neatly fit people into the pigeon holes. The reality is many just don't, you'll find some right wingers, with one or two far left views, and vice versa. It doesn't make them centralise.

Part of the problem with politics today.
Yep. A figure of speech from the French revolution which has stuck with us and is borderline meaningless to us now. It's like the opposite of Orwellian NewSpeak. People don't really have the vocabulary for nuanced positions without putting in some effort, and once they do they can then get a label slapped on them so no-one else has to bother with the hard thinking.

See also: New Labour, the SNP, the Conservatives, or Americans thinking the Democrats are Left Wing and the general rise and fall of Centrists.

Getting people to be enthusiastic about mediocre middle of the road policies which enthuse noone is a big ask.

Isaac Hunt

Original Poster:

9,470 posts

150 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
PositronicRay said:
This right wing, left wing thing is interesting. The political model we have far right, centre, far left. The assumption is that you can neatly fit people into the pigeon holes. The reality is many just don't, you'll find some right wingers, with one or two far left views, and vice versa. It doesn't make them centralise.

Part of the problem with politics today.
Indeed. Many on PH have me down as a raging right wing, BNP card carrying gammon, as I am pro population control (numbers not type). However on the political compass I come out left of centre.

PositronicRay

14,289 posts

122 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
Isaac Hunt said:
PositronicRay said:
This right wing, left wing thing is interesting. The political model we have far right, centre, far left. The assumption is that you can neatly fit people into the pigeon holes. The reality is many just don't, you'll find some right wingers, with one or two far left views, and vice versa. It doesn't make them centralise.

Part of the problem with politics today.
Indeed. Many on PH have me down as a raging right wing, BNP card carrying gammon, as I am pro population control (numbers not type). However on the political compass I come out left of centre.
I thought population control was more a commie thing.

Fittster

17,974 posts

152 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
PositronicRay said:
Isaac Hunt said:
PositronicRay said:
This right wing, left wing thing is interesting. The political model we have far right, centre, far left. The assumption is that you can neatly fit people into the pigeon holes. The reality is many just don't, you'll find some right wingers, with one or two far left views, and vice versa. It doesn't make them centralise.

Part of the problem with politics today.
Indeed. Many on PH have me down as a raging right wing, BNP card carrying gammon, as I am pro population control (numbers not type). However on the political compass I come out left of centre.
I thought population control was more a commie thing.
South Africa was rightwing and into population control.

Teddy Lop

926 posts

6 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
Hitler is the spectre of right-wing evilness the tribal lefties like to constantly refer too but I personally think how left or right Hitler was in relation to his antics was as relevent as his facial hair. Trouble is, when Marxist ideology taken to it's conclusion will always end up with Stalin, Mao etc with millions dead and persecuted the left needs a "whatabout this right winger" to point to and Hitler fulfills that role if you ignore the logical fallacy.

What would actual right wing extremism look like? A miserable for the masses lawless anarchy run by the corps maybe?

Trolleys Thank You

848 posts

20 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
BrassMan said:
A hardcore nationalist with some socialist-type economic policies?
Hated socialists and marxists?

Right wing but probably to the left of the left of the stereotype PHer?
rofl

Nailed it.

Trolleys Thank You

848 posts

20 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
Isaac Hunt said:
Trolleys Thank You]Yes [/thread said:
Tune in tomorrow when Isaac asks whether the Pope really is Catholic.

Edited by Trolleys Thank You on Saturday 19th January 13:07
So why do people associate him with the right wing?

Is this a massive manipulation by the left to smear the right?
Is this a serious post?

andy_s

14,128 posts

198 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
I think it's useful to look at the other axis as well - although 95% of all politicians would be in the 'Authoritarian' zone [their raison d'etre...]

E.G.:


(You can do your own @ https://www.politicalcompass.org/test - or pretend to be Uncle Joe or the Gefreiter for giggles)

Pinochet may have been a better if not quite as dramatic example of ultra-right wing going wrong; if it is to contrast left vs right without reference to lib. vs auth.

I think it takes a few combinations to arrive at the likes of Hitler, Mao, Pot, Stalin; they weren't mainstream but morally bankrupt monsters with hyper-paranoia, psychopathy and maniacal megalomania. Uncle Joe had a doctrine and ideology to follow and in combination with his character ('I have no son') it led to the tens of millions slaughtered by 1. NKVD (authority) 2. Paranoia (swift execution of any threat) 3. Kulaks (communist / socialist doctrine leading to starvation of millions) and 4. Competence (his actions in the war after having shot all his generals and cabinet).

Hitler had a 'Make Germany Great Again' nationalist ideology - AIUI - taken to extreme levels rather than being led by a completely right/left ideology per se.

I think this is a point missed by many who focus on L v R; really we should be focussed on authoritarianism vs libertarianism as this is where the real damage (in terms of lives) is done. Socialism, by its nature though, easily slips into disaster as authoritarianism is a necessary tool to effect the ideology.

Countdown

22,458 posts

135 months

Saturday 19th January
quotequote all
Isaac Hunt said:
So why do people associate him with the right wing?

Is this a massive manipulation by the left to smear the right?
Why is it that far-right organisations seem to be such fans of Adolf and the left seem to hate him?

scratchchin