Man stabbed for his Focus RS

[croyde]

Locals are saying that they are plagued by moped gangs there for the easy pickings.

Reports that police take ages to respond, probably because they are in the dodgy areas wondering where the scooter gangs have got to.

[oyster]

Ahbefive said:

lbc said:

Most criminals and nutters seem to carry knives regardless of their skin colour.

I don't think that is correct at all. Out of videos I see about this sort of thing I'd say 90% if not more are black or maybe it's just the type of crime that attracts a certain type.

Either way there must be a common denominator that lures a certain type to this stabby sort of crime and it needs addressing. Denying the facts is not a way to address it.

There probably is a causal denominator - and it isn't skin colour.

[oyster]

jdw100 said:

poo at Paul's said:

I caught some guys last year breaking into a neighbours van at 1am, from my bedroom window, shouted at them and they made threats toward me with firearms (hand guns)...……......I grabbed my keys and phone and chase in my stty old estate car, whilst in just my pants!
Chased them and caught them after about 8miles, followed them for another 25 given cops a commentary from the car, but they (cops) were over an hour away! Hopeless. Eventually got low on fuel on the mway so had to let them go. My thought process was pretty much, "fk you, you s" and I got after them!
Cops said it was a stupid idea, but it was just what I did, so you never know how or what you will do.
The cops are nowhere, which is why these fkers do what they do, having been rumbled mid job, and then chased caught and followed for over 30 miles, maybe they will go to easier pickings next time?

I came back to a carpark and caught a guy having a go at the lock on my BX19GTi. Slammed him into the side of the car and grabbed hold of him whilst he said "sorry, sorry, I thought this was my car!"....yeah right.

I hadn't realised he had a mate working on the other side of the car, also with a screwdriver in hand!

Much shouting commenced and I ended up letting my guy go.

Called the Police and had two cars there in under five minutes, took me for a drive round to see if we could spot them, I gave a statement and they had the area round my door locks finger printed within an hour or so. Ended up having a tea with two officers in a cafe across the road as I was a bit shaken after in the incident...I was in my mid-20s. Tied to a spate of car crime...offenders arrested the next year.

That was around 1997, I remember because I hadn't long got a mobile phone and used it to call the Police.


Fast forward to 2015 - Neighbour lets his son borrow his house whilst he is away for a week. Loud music at 02:00 on a Weds night in a normally very nice quiet street in St Albans.

Another neighbour and I investigate and get threatened (laughably) by this scrawny son - follows my neighbour back to his front door saying he's going to kill us etc...next night he and some friends are trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to overturn cars on the road. I call the Police, mention the previous night, now trying to damage cars with his mates....nothing they can do they say.

Next day I follow up again as we can't have three nights of disruption (I've also got hold of this guy's dad - in the USA, mortified as you might imagine. Ended up with wine and chocolates all round...son never allowed to stay again). Police again really disinterested until I mention that during the first night's disturbance the son had called me and my neighbour a pair of gay s and said I'll kill you, you fking queers.

Crikey - two officers come to see me at my office in town within an hour or so. Am I okay? Er...yeah this kid is about 60kg and my neighbour showed huge restraint in not knocking him out. He followed him to his house and was threatening to kill him and me, backed up by two equally scrawny little sts and a drunk screeching girl. Then they tried to overturn people's cars...

That's by the by apparently - am I okay after he called me a gay ? Off they go to arrest him for that bit! He's legged it to his mum's in Cardiff by this time....

2014: BTP. I got threatened with a stabbing on a Thameslink train by three scumbags, simply by asking them if they wouldn't mind putting some headphones in; as their mobile phone music was annoying everyone. Went from my polite request to full blown threats within 20 seconds.

I continued talking to them in a calm manner, but my then partner got straight on phone to BTP as this was getting nasty - we gonna stab you up mate.

I knew I was going to have to 'dominate the train carriage' (insert internet hard man meme) I genuinely thought this was going to kick off and the first one of them to stand up would have lost an eye. Three on one and threatening to stab me I really felt at that point I might have to fight for my life.

In the end, I think because I was still just trying to reason with them, they decided it was their stop (it clearly wasn't) and left. My partner had been giving the police descriptions and live commentary as to where we were in the journey for twenty minutes. After they got off, other passengers said 'oh good for you for standing up to them', 'well done' etc...yeah where were you then they were threatening to kill me?

Anyway the point is BTP swung into action two days later - could I come to give a statement? Sorry they couldn't despatch any officers to meet these guys off the train but they didn't have any cars available...

Had CCTV from the station, and had the recording from my partner's call in which they could hear the threats etc. Got offered a leaflet as a 'victim of crime'. Last I heard of it.


2018: Friend of mine. Keeps getting woken up, something not right....its two guys inside his car (Audi) on the drive outside (got in through the hatchback) dismantling his dashboard! Ends up running after them clad in just his pants whilst on the phone to the Police. Told by Police to stop but he's very angry and carries on - loses them after a while as they have trainers and he's just in bare feet.

The car thieves have left all their tools behind (some of which he now uses, nice set of screwdrivers..) but after repeated calls can't get Police interested in picking up these tools or doing anything besides giving him a crime number.


Times have changed...my advice: always go to bed in shorts and trainers!

It's like PH's version of Jack Reacher - you just seem to find trouble where no-one else does.

Or else they're just great tales.

[Turfy]

jdw100 said:

I came back to a carpark and caught a guy having a go at the lock on my BX19GTi.

A screwdriver you say?! I had one of these and quite often would take a hammer to the starter motor. I hope this delusional fellow was not told to go and find a suitable getaway car

[Turfy]

BoRED S2upid said:

Whoozit said:

My wife goes to that cafe at least once a week for coffee with friends. My daughter went to primary school 400 metres away. I've bought wine many times from the Good Wine Shop in the picture.

Shivers down my spine. There but for the grace of random chance.

I suggest she finds a new coffee shop in a different area.

Move Kew Gardens too?

[andymc]

Knife crime is largely black on black as is gun crime in America, no idea why? Socio Economic blah blah blah

[WCZ]

andymc said:

Knife crime is largely black on black as is gun crime in America, no idea why? Socio Economic blah blah blah

yup

[Ahbefive]

coldel said:

But you have to look at drivers of these sorts of crimes not just correlated statistics - lots of things correlate with each other but it doesn't mean they are causal. For example children that watch more TV are more likely to be violent, so TV causes violence right? Or is it that violent children are more likely to watch TV? OR is it a third factor that isn't in that equation that causes both? To simply look at violent crime and then look at race, see that on correlates with the other and conclude that race causes violent crime is statistically incorrect, you are observing a correlation.

Why are black people so under-represented in high brow crime like fraud? As someone else said, black people generally earn less money and are more likely to live in deprived areas. These areas are prone to the fundamentals of crime which is baked into humans as a whole. If you go to China and look at deprived areas there are murders happening there, there are no black people there, so why does it happen if the colour of someones skin is the reason for violent crime?

Perhaps you are struggling with comprehending my previous posts. Have a read again.

oyster said:

There probably is a causal denominator - and it isn't skin colour.

Then that issue needs to be identified and dealt with.

From a .gov source: "In 2017, just under 4% of White people were unemployed, compared with 8% of people from all other ethnic groups combined. The Pakistani/Bangladeshi ethnic group had the highest rate of unemployment in 2017 (10%), and the Other White group had the lowest rate (4%)."


That doesn't account for the massively skewed violent crime ratios. So what is it?

Edited by Ahbefive on Wednesday 23 January 17:25

[Ahbefive]

coldel said:

But you have to look at drivers of these sorts of crimes not just correlated statistics - lots of things correlate with each other but it doesn't mean they are causal. For example children that watch more TV are more likely to be violent, so TV causes violence right? Or is it that violent children are more likely to watch TV? OR is it a third factor that isn't in that equation that causes both? To simply look at violent crime and then look at race, see that on correlates with the other and conclude that race causes violent crime is statistically incorrect, you are observing a correlation.

Why are black people so under-represented in high brow crime like fraud? As someone else said, black people generally earn less money and are more likely to live in deprived areas. These areas are prone to the fundamentals of crime which is baked into humans as a whole. If you go to China and look at deprived areas there are murders happening there, there are no black people there, so why does it happen if the colour of someones skin is the reason for violent crime?

Perhaps you are struggling with comprehending my previous posts. Have a read again:

oyster said:

There probably is a causal denominator - and it isn't skin colour.

Then that issue needs to be identified and dealt with.

From a .gov source: "In 2017, just under 4% of White people were unemployed, compared with 8% of people from all other ethnic groups combined. The Pakistani/Bangladeshi ethnic group had the highest rate of unemployment in 2017 (10%), and the Other White group had the lowest rate (4%)."


That doesn't account for the massively skewed violent crime ratios. So what is it?

Edited by Ahbefive on Wednesday 23 January 17:26

[Ahbefive]

coldel said:

But you have to look at drivers of these sorts of crimes not just correlated statistics - lots of things correlate with each other but it doesn't mean they are causal. For example children that watch more TV are more likely to be violent, so TV causes violence right? Or is it that violent children are more likely to watch TV? OR is it a third factor that isn't in that equation that causes both? To simply look at violent crime and then look at race, see that on correlates with the other and conclude that race causes violent crime is statistically incorrect, you are observing a correlation.

Why are black people so under-represented in high brow crime like fraud? As someone else said, black people generally earn less money and are more likely to live in deprived areas. These areas are prone to the fundamentals of crime which is baked into humans as a whole. If you go to China and look at deprived areas there are murders happening there, there are no black people there, so why does it happen if the colour of someones skin is the reason for violent crime?

Perhaps you are struggling with comprehending my previous posts. Have a read again:

oyster said:

There probably is a causal denominator - and it isn't skin colour.

Then that issue needs to be identified and dealt with.

From a .gov source: "In 2017, just under 4% of White people were unemployed, compared with 8% of people from all other ethnic groups combined. The Pakistani/Bangladeshi ethnic group had the highest rate of unemployment in 2017 (10%), and the Other White group had the lowest rate (4%)."


That doesn't account for the massively skewed violent crime ratios. So what is it?

Edited by Ahbefive on Wednesday 23 January 17:27

[Digga]

poo at Paul's said:

I caught some guys last year breaking into a neighbours van at 1am, from my bedroom window, shouted at them and they made threats toward me with firearms (hand guns)...……......I grabbed my keys and phone and chase in my stty old estate car, whilst in just my pants!
Chased them and caught them after about 8miles, followed them for another 25 given cops a commentary from the car, but they (cops) were over an hour away! Hopeless. Eventually got low on fuel on the mway so had to let them go. My thought process was pretty much, "fk you, you s" and I got after them!
Cops said it was a stupid idea, but it was just what I did, so you never know how or what you will do.
The cops are nowhere, which is why these fkers do what they do, having been rumbled mid job, and then chased caught and followed for over 30 miles, maybe they will go to easier pickings next time?

There's been a spate of (new shape) Transit van thefts locally. One of them belonged to a friend of the electrician at work. The guy saw his van going and, at that very moment, one of his neighbours arrived home in his car. He jumped into the car persuaded the guy to give chase, whilst he was on the 'phone to the police.

Long story short, the chase ended when his neighbour had run the second red ligt and started (understandably) to bottle it. The police said it was just as well they never caught up with the van, because they suspect the thefts are all linked to an Eastern European organised criminal gang who are particularly ruthless and not averse to any level of violence.

But yes, in short, these criminals know the police are 'nowhere'.

[mackay45]

Good to see the DM managed to shoehorn in a reference to the value of the guy's house into the article.

Assume it was a mk3 FRS? Any articles elsewhere which confirm? Not that it matters really, just out of interest.

[oyster]

Ahbefive said:

oyster said:

There probably is a causal denominator - and it isn't skin colour.

Then that issue needs to be identified and dealt with.

From a .gov source: "In 2017, just under 4% of White people were unemployed, compared with 8% of people from all other ethnic groups combined. The Pakistani/Bangladeshi ethnic group had the highest rate of unemployment in 2017 (10%), and the Other White group had the lowest rate (4%)."


That doesn't account for the massively skewed violent crime ratios. So what is it?

Let's turn this around as you can't seem to accept the stats you yourself dug up.

What do you think it is?

[markcoznottz]

oyster said:

Ahbefive said:

oyster said:

There probably is a causal denominator - and it isn't skin colour.

Then that issue needs to be identified and dealt with.

From a .gov source: "In 2017, just under 4% of White people were unemployed, compared with 8% of people from all other ethnic groups combined. The Pakistani/Bangladeshi ethnic group had the highest rate of unemployment in 2017 (10%), and the Other White group had the lowest rate (4%)."


That doesn't account for the massively skewed violent crime ratios. So what is it?

Let's turn this around as you can't seem to accept the stats you yourself dug up.

What do you think it is?

So what is the 'casual denominator' you referred to?.

[coldel]

Can imagine those from non-white British born backgrounds are more likely to be in lower paid jobs, subsequently living in more deprived areas which become a breeding ground for crime. A vicious circle for youngsters growing up in those areas being under-educated and lured into crime to earn money.

Kew by the way is generally a very nice area just up the road from me, this will be a bit of a shock to the locals I would have thought. I don't remember anything like this having lived close by for around 6 years. Bizarrely I have met the guy Eric in the report a few times many years ago, I used to work at Research International which was part of the WPP group which KantarTNS now sits under (RI was merged into TNS). Seemed a reasonably nice guy, was well connected to a certain Mr Martin Sorrell if I remember correctly.

[garagewidow]

coldel said:

Can imagine those from non-white British born backgrounds are more likely to be in lower paid jobs, subsequently living in more deprived areas which become a breeding ground for crime. A vicious circle for youngsters growing up in those areas being under-educated and lured into crime to earn money.

Kew by the way is generally a very nice area just up the road from me, this will be a bit of a shock to the locals I would have thought. I don't remember anything like this having lived close by for around 6 years. Bizarrely I have met the guy Eric in the report a few times many years ago, I used to work at Research International which was part of the WPP group which KantarTNS now sits under (RI was merged into TNS). Seemed a reasonably nice guy, was well connected to a certain Mr Martin Sorrell if I remember correctly.

Re the first para,

It still doesn't explain why some young black youths(men) take a knife out with them with possible intent to commit a crime and then stab someone without a care if they survive it or not.
I know if I was in that position through lack of employment or financial stability I just wouldn't think to do that sort of act.

[poo at Paul's]

oyster said:

jdw100 said:

poo at Paul's said:

I caught some guys last year breaking into a neighbours van at 1am, from my bedroom window, shouted at them and they made threats toward me with firearms (hand guns)...……......I grabbed my keys and phone and chase in my stty old estate car, whilst in just my pants!
Chased them and caught them after about 8miles, followed them for another 25 given cops a commentary from the car, but they (cops) were over an hour away! Hopeless. Eventually got low on fuel on the mway so had to let them go. My thought process was pretty much, "fk you, you s" and I got after them!
Cops said it was a stupid idea, but it was just what I did, so you never know how or what you will do.
The cops are nowhere, which is why these fkers do what they do, having been rumbled mid job, and then chased caught and followed for over 30 miles, maybe they will go to easier pickings next time?

I came back to a carpark and caught a guy having a go at the lock on my BX19GTi. Slammed him into the side of the car and grabbed hold of him whilst he said "sorry, sorry, I thought this was my car!"....yeah right.

I hadn't realised he had a mate working on the other side of the car, also with a screwdriver in hand!

Much shouting commenced and I ended up letting my guy go.

Called the Police and had two cars there in under five minutes, took me for a drive round to see if we could spot them, I gave a statement and they had the area round my door locks finger printed within an hour or so. Ended up having a tea with two officers in a cafe across the road as I was a bit shaken after in the incident...I was in my mid-20s. Tied to a spate of car crime...offenders arrested the next year.

That was around 1997, I remember because I hadn't long got a mobile phone and used it to call the Police.


Fast forward to 2015 - Neighbour lets his son borrow his house whilst he is away for a week. Loud music at 02:00 on a Weds night in a normally very nice quiet street in St Albans.

Another neighbour and I investigate and get threatened (laughably) by this scrawny son - follows my neighbour back to his front door saying he's going to kill us etc...next night he and some friends are trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to overturn cars on the road. I call the Police, mention the previous night, now trying to damage cars with his mates....nothing they can do they say.

Next day I follow up again as we can't have three nights of disruption (I've also got hold of this guy's dad - in the USA, mortified as you might imagine. Ended up with wine and chocolates all round...son never allowed to stay again). Police again really disinterested until I mention that during the first night's disturbance the son had called me and my neighbour a pair of gay s and said I'll kill you, you fking queers.

Crikey - two officers come to see me at my office in town within an hour or so. Am I okay? Er...yeah this kid is about 60kg and my neighbour showed huge restraint in not knocking him out. He followed him to his house and was threatening to kill him and me, backed up by two equally scrawny little sts and a drunk screeching girl. Then they tried to overturn people's cars...

That's by the by apparently - am I okay after he called me a gay ? Off they go to arrest him for that bit! He's legged it to his mum's in Cardiff by this time....

2014: BTP. I got threatened with a stabbing on a Thameslink train by three scumbags, simply by asking them if they wouldn't mind putting some headphones in; as their mobile phone music was annoying everyone. Went from my polite request to full blown threats within 20 seconds.

I continued talking to them in a calm manner, but my then partner got straight on phone to BTP as this was getting nasty - we gonna stab you up mate.

I knew I was going to have to 'dominate the train carriage' (insert internet hard man meme) I genuinely thought this was going to kick off and the first one of them to stand up would have lost an eye. Three on one and threatening to stab me I really felt at that point I might have to fight for my life.

In the end, I think because I was still just trying to reason with them, they decided it was their stop (it clearly wasn't) and left. My partner had been giving the police descriptions and live commentary as to where we were in the journey for twenty minutes. After they got off, other passengers said 'oh good for you for standing up to them', 'well done' etc...yeah where were you then they were threatening to kill me?

Anyway the point is BTP swung into action two days later - could I come to give a statement? Sorry they couldn't despatch any officers to meet these guys off the train but they didn't have any cars available...

Had CCTV from the station, and had the recording from my partner's call in which they could hear the threats etc. Got offered a leaflet as a 'victim of crime'. Last I heard of it.


2018: Friend of mine. Keeps getting woken up, something not right....its two guys inside his car (Audi) on the drive outside (got in through the hatchback) dismantling his dashboard! Ends up running after them clad in just his pants whilst on the phone to the Police. Told by Police to stop but he's very angry and carries on - loses them after a while as they have trainers and he's just in bare feet.

The car thieves have left all their tools behind (some of which he now uses, nice set of screwdrivers..) but after repeated calls can't get Police interested in picking up these tools or doing anything besides giving him a crime number.


Times have changed...my advice: always go to bed in shorts and trainers!

It's like PH's version of Jack Reacher - you just seem to find trouble where no-one else does.

Or else they're just great tales.

Or maybe some of us just don't want to give up and let crims get on with it unchallenged, especially when the threat is directed at them in their own home. .

I think the post below mine is suggesting that policing is so poor nowadays compared to the heady days of car theft in the 80s and 90s, there is no response for things like car theft and burglary anymore, which are seen as crimes against property, and not people. Whereas in reality, the nature of the modern car with alarm and immobiliser systems means that often the crime against property crosses over to a crime against a person, as seems to have been reportedly the case here.

My post is not all "billy big balls", which is why it was never posted about when it actually happened. It was taken seriously by the police, due to the firearms, but they just has no people to pursue a car down the motorway!
I was merely agreeing with that maybe don't react in the way the way they think they would. If you have caught someone breaking into property, yours or someone elses, and ignore it, that's your prerogative and a decision only you can make. Although, of course, the crims that perpetrate brazen crime in broad daylight rely on that, and with good reason..... Cases like this show what can happen. My point is, whilst we all read about stuff like this, the guy couple of years ago killed by being run over by his own car getting nicked (s3), stuff like that, neither you or I actually know how we will react til it actually happens. As another poster says, you cant always see the whole picture either the shock takes over and you focus on one thing not everything.

So you may think it a tall tale, as you would not consider yourself or people you know the sort to react in that way. But remember, in my case, this was not just my neighbours van involved…..if I had shouted and they had just got in their car and fked off, or indeed, carried on nicking, maybe I would have gone back to bed? But as soon as there were violent threats made toward me, in my own home, that just instantly just changed the situation, it was all I could think to do was follow them and try to work out who they may be, and why they'd just waved guns at me. Again remember, I was in my own bathroom / bedroom, so they know where I live etc.
Can you honestly say you would not do the same?
Thankfully, they've seemingly not been back.

[Blue Oval84]

garagewidow said:

Re the first para,

It still doesn't explain why some young black youths(men) take a knife out with them with possible intent to commit a crime and then stab someone without a care if they survive it or not.
I know if I was in that position through lack of employment or financial stability I just wouldn't think to do that sort of act.

Surely the main driver for people doing that (regardless of their racial background, there's plenty of white people get stabby too) is their affiliation with gangs. There are parts of London where if you are recognised as being from a different postcode you can be stabbed to death by rivals in the street.

Ultimately underpinning a lot of the gang warfare on the streets, will be the drugs market and the battles for control of the lucrative earnings it offers. If as a nation we want to pull the rug out from under a lot of the gangs, we need to take a long hard look at our drugs policies. That wouldn't solve it all, as clearly people who go around robbing cars are still going to go tooled up, but it would (I believe) cut crime massively.

[croyde]

As to what would you do if it were you in a situation, I agree, you don't know how you would act.

A few times I have kept out of the way and/or called the police but I do remember driving near my house with my then wife and baby daughter when I saw 2 blokes snatch a bag off a woman.

They jumped into a car so in an instant I told my wife to get the baby out of the car and tore off in pursuit. I had just been playing the latest GTA on the PS2 so it were as if I could see the green arrow in the sky.

My intention was to catch up and follow them whilst calling the police.

I came round a corner only to find them stalled, trying to restart their car, so I pulled around them and cut across their bonnet.

At this point the 2 blokes get out and suddenly it dawns on me.....WTF! am I doing?

They give it the come on then and then leg it, with the bag.

I then got a massive bking when I got home.

[poo at Paul's]

untakenname said:

A few weeks ago I noticed some youths loitering around my car in Asda so I turned on my demon eye (has a range of over 100 meters) and they then left probably as they knew they were being watched.

Edited by untakenname on Tuesday 22 January 11:50

What's the demon eye thing? A remote camera or alarm?