Man stabbed for his Focus RS
Discussion
Ahbefive said:
Nobody said that it's all black people. Thats like saying all terrorists are Muslim or all Irish are drunks etc etc.
What is fundamentally correct though is that statistically you are more likely to get stabbed by a black man, regardless of that being a reason. Hence rightly or wrongly why some are more likely to get a wide berth in the street and maybe even the employment market and consequently how stereotypes are formed. The cycle of negativity continues.
Even that finding is inferred but not correct, the key being the word 'you'. Statistics also show that 85% of black people stabbed are stabbed by other black people, similarly (and I dont have the exact number to hand I cannot remember exactly but its something like 65%) a white person is much more likely to be stabbed by a white person than a black person.What is fundamentally correct though is that statistically you are more likely to get stabbed by a black man, regardless of that being a reason. Hence rightly or wrongly why some are more likely to get a wide berth in the street and maybe even the employment market and consequently how stereotypes are formed. The cycle of negativity continues.
I don't know your ethnic or racial background, but if you are white caucasian you are better off crossing the street if a white person approaches you than a black one to avoid being stabbed, statistically.
I'd have to see evidence for that, any such links would be interesting.
I and most other people only ever see or hear what the news informs us of or what is printed in papers which is generally black people stabbing other people, black and white.
It seems that you don't see it as any sort of cultural problem or problem at all and would rather try to shut the conversation down.
Whatever the peoples ethnicity is that are being stabbed should be irrelevant, it is plain wrong regardless.
I and most other people only ever see or hear what the news informs us of or what is printed in papers which is generally black people stabbing other people, black and white.
It seems that you don't see it as any sort of cultural problem or problem at all and would rather try to shut the conversation down.
Whatever the peoples ethnicity is that are being stabbed should be irrelevant, it is plain wrong regardless.
Ahbefive said:
It seems that you don't see it as any sort of cultural problem or problem at all and would rather try to shut the conversation down.
That's really not true at all if you understand what he's saying. He's saying that just linking "black = stabby" is too basic, and to really understand the drivers you need to look a lot deeper into the statistics and the causal factors. Once you understand those, you can start tackling the actual root cause.jdw100 said:
Thameslink train by three scumbags, simply by asking them if they wouldn't mind putting some headphones in; as their mobile phone music was annoying everyone. Went from my polite request to full blown threats within 20 seconds.
I continued talking to them in a calm manner, but my then partner got straight on phone to BTP as this was getting nasty - we gonna stab you up mate.
I knew I was going to have to 'dominate the train carriage' (insert internet hard man meme) I genuinely thought this was going to kick off and the first one of them to stand up would have lost an eye. Three on one and threatening to stab me I really felt at that point I might have to fight for my life.
In the end, I think because I was still just trying to reason with them, they decided it was their stop (it clearly wasn't) and left. My partner had been giving the police descriptions and live commentary as to where we were in the journey for twenty minutes. After they got off, other passengers said 'oh good for you for standing up to them', 'well done' etc...yeah where were you then they were threatening to kill me?
In a similar, Jason Bourne type situation I continued talking to them in a calm manner, but my then partner got straight on phone to BTP as this was getting nasty - we gonna stab you up mate.
I knew I was going to have to 'dominate the train carriage' (insert internet hard man meme) I genuinely thought this was going to kick off and the first one of them to stand up would have lost an eye. Three on one and threatening to stab me I really felt at that point I might have to fight for my life.
In the end, I think because I was still just trying to reason with them, they decided it was their stop (it clearly wasn't) and left. My partner had been giving the police descriptions and live commentary as to where we were in the journey for twenty minutes. After they got off, other passengers said 'oh good for you for standing up to them', 'well done' etc...yeah where were you then they were threatening to kill me?
I was once on a train when some teenagers without tickets refused to buy a ticket from the polite man on the train and became quite abusive. It was getting a bit tense and I thought one of them was going to attack the train ticket man. Everybody else looked down, but I decided to get involved, verbally (with a plan to shove my heavy laptop (and files) bag repeatedly into the face of the gobbiest, nearest lad). After a short stare-out, the teenagers left the carriage.
Afterwards, the other passengers did similar to your situation, giving words of approval and hinting that they would have got involved... Yeah, right. It would have just been me and ticket man with everybody else watching.
The ticket man thanked me and gave me a free cup of coffee.
The Transport Police were waiting for the teenagers at the next station.
People should step in to defend others, but be mindful of what could happen
andymc said:
we need more Police, simple as that
I don't disagree with that, but to a large extent, they only treat the symptoms. America has far more Police per head of population than we do but I don't believe that their crime rate is lower.here are some much more fundamental societal changes required to cut out swathes of violent crime.
Blue Oval84 said:
I don't disagree with that, but to a large extent, they only treat the symptoms. America has far more Police per head of population than we do but I don't believe that their crime rate is lower.
here are some much more fundamental societal changes required to cut out swathes of violent crime.
We need a combination of punishments that actually serve as a deterrent, more police and less social inequality. here are some much more fundamental societal changes required to cut out swathes of violent crime.
The latter is something that would take 20-30 years so is unpalatable to any 5 year term government. Plus social equality either means socialism where many people will end up worse off or a huge cut in income for those at the very top of the pyramid who won’t thank anyone and won’t support politicians who try to make it happen.
If all the worlds big corporations were ran by egalitarian philanthropists crime would still exist but to a far lesser extent.
MC Bodge said:
In a similar, Jason Bourne type situation
I was once on a train when some teenagers without tickets refused to buy a ticket from the polite man on the train and became quite abusive. It was getting a bit tense and I thought one of them was going to attack the train ticket man. Everybody else looked down, but I decided to get involved, verbally (with a plan to shove my heavy laptop (and files) bag repeatedly into the face of the gobbiest, nearest lad). After a short stare-out, the teenagers left the carriage.
Afterwards, the other passengers did similar to your situation, giving words of approval and hinting that they would have got involved... Yeah, right. It would have just been me and ticket man with everybody else watching.
The ticket man thanked me and gave me a free cup of coffee.
The Transport Police were waiting for the teenagers at the next station.
People should step in to defend others, but be mindful of what could happen
Good for you. I was once on a train when some teenagers without tickets refused to buy a ticket from the polite man on the train and became quite abusive. It was getting a bit tense and I thought one of them was going to attack the train ticket man. Everybody else looked down, but I decided to get involved, verbally (with a plan to shove my heavy laptop (and files) bag repeatedly into the face of the gobbiest, nearest lad). After a short stare-out, the teenagers left the carriage.
Afterwards, the other passengers did similar to your situation, giving words of approval and hinting that they would have got involved... Yeah, right. It would have just been me and ticket man with everybody else watching.
The ticket man thanked me and gave me a free cup of coffee.
The Transport Police were waiting for the teenagers at the next station.
People should step in to defend others, but be mindful of what could happen
I remember one a few years back, from some young guy on a train - full on jeans below the bum, puffa jacket, yo yo yo sullen attitude...really giving the ticket guy a hard time. Why you picking on me man - you got 'nuffin' else to do? Get out my face yeah...I ain't go no ticket on me - lost it innit you can't prove nuffin....get away from me man, mind your own f
king business yeah...Obviously the Inspector (a short elderly but assertive indian chap) must have called for back up as two BTP guys got on at Mill Hill.
Suddenly our gangsta was a lot more compliant - turns out his mum had bought him the ticket, put him through the barriers and must have walked off with ticket as going in other direction on the line. Lots of laughter in the carriage as gangsta had to phone his mum to see if she would meet them at next stop to prove his story...which I think was probably entirely true.
Another Thameslink one - coming back to St Albans fairly late at night. I was sat there and was looking at the young guy sat in front of me just thinking he looked a lot like one of the guys I used to hang around with when I was 17/18...as in same age as then and similar clothing - I was musing on how fashions come around again.
I clocked these two guys in the aisle standing by my section of six - just wrong...heavy grey cuffed sweat pants, white trainers, little man bags - they just smelt funny as well...kind of farty. The girl sat next to me had seen them as well and I remember we exchanged a bit of a 'who are these shifty people' raised eyebrows kind of communication. There were spare seats as I recall...no need to stand in the aisle,
As we pulled into the next station - one of them grabs the phone of the young guy opposite me. So quick I couldn't really take it in but a guy behind us in the single seat that faces into the train (old Thameslink carriages) managed to grab him. I jumped up and then the two of us were stumbling round with him in the entrance part of the train. He was bent double trying to hang onto the stolen phone.
I'm trying to look out for this guy's mate but, incredibly, he has stepped off the train and is just watching - until the doors close and train pulls away.
We're left with this thief and I'm was thinking this is crazy, we need to get him to the floor but this other chap is kind of in my way and has already thrown some punches into our thief a couple of which have hit me. The carriage is pretty full, but silent and nobody is helping..this goes on for a good few minutes until some big guy in a suit joins in and basically proceeds to kick the crap out the thief. Leaves him on the floor - then comes back and kicks him in the head a couple of times.
Complete silence in the carriage - me and other chap gave the young guy back his phone (in three pieces) he was actually crying. Shock I guess.
I sat down and the girl next to me says "I'm going to tweet the train company". Struck me at the time as a very bizarre thing to do, but I then thought I really don't want to get pulled into this ...violent assault? No CCTV on old Thameslink carriages...so I jumped off at Radlett got a cab to near home and walked the rest.
I was actually a bit worried for a few weeks but nothing ever came of it - I'm assuming people just left the thief there until he was able to get up himself.
The way this chap walked away then came back and just booted the thief in the head two or three times then went and sat back down...that was pretty shocking to me.
Still I'm guessing there must have been another 20/30 men in that carriage (at least) and at least he got up to do something.
Edited by jdw100 on Thursday 24th January 01:56
Ahbefive said:
Nobody said that it's all black people. Thats like saying all terrorists are Muslim or all Irish are drunks etc etc.
What is fundamentally correct though is that statistically you are more likely to get stabbed by a black man, regardless of that being a reason. Hence rightly or wrongly why some are more likely to get a wide berth in the street and maybe even the employment market and consequently how stereotypes are formed. The cycle of negativity continues.
You give someone a wide berth based on how they dress (rightly or wrongly) and how they behave, not colour.What is fundamentally correct though is that statistically you are more likely to get stabbed by a black man, regardless of that being a reason. Hence rightly or wrongly why some are more likely to get a wide berth in the street and maybe even the employment market and consequently how stereotypes are formed. The cycle of negativity continues.
Black guy - smartly dressed, head up - no problem.
White guy - tracksuit pants, hands down the front, hoody, gold chain, shifty eyes - .avoid.
Reverse and same is true.
If you (not you personally) are avoiding people based on colour not dress/behaviour then your radar is well off.
Edited by jdw100 on Thursday 24th January 01:56
coldel said:
I don't know your ethnic or racial background, but if you are white caucasian you are better off crossing the street if a white person approaches you than a black one to avoid being stabbed, statistically.
Likewise you’re safer in London than in Lincolnshire, the UK’s murder hotspot. It doesn’t suit the “black=stabby” narrative though.Ahbefive said:
Again, read my previous posts.
Like this one?Ahbefive said:
there is obviously something that black people are more prone to being associated with (perhaps drill music or gangster wannabe lifestyle) that is causing them to disproportionately be more stabby.
It's not from being skint or having bad parents and even if it was then there is still something there that should be addressed and not swept under the carpet.
.
Which demonstrates that you are completely unable to accept that there might be any other factors beyond their blackness.It's not from being skint or having bad parents and even if it was then there is still something there that should be addressed and not swept under the carpet.
.
That's why you feel these kind of conversations get shut down. Its because people pretty quickly realise you are just a racist looking for an excuse to criticise black people without having the remotest genuine interest in learning of relevant issues, and these people get bored and realise there is no meaningful conversation to be had
Salmonofdoubt said:
Plus social equality either means socialism where many people will end up worse off or a huge cut in income for those at the very top of the pyramid who won’t thank anyone and won’t support politicians who try to make it happen.
Why does social equality necessarily mean socialism? If we can't have nice things without the whip of the state, maybe we don't deserve nice things...j_4m said:
Salmonofdoubt said:
Plus social equality either means socialism where many people will end up worse off or a huge cut in income for those at the very top of the pyramid who won’t thank anyone and won’t support politicians who try to make it happen.
Why does social equality necessarily mean socialism? If we can't have nice things without the whip of the state, maybe we don't deserve nice things...But it’s either the whip of the state or those with the money become more inclined to share it. I’m not sure the worlds execs will wake up to that without some form of political upheaval but it would need to be on a global scale similar to our economy
blindswelledrat said:
Which demonstrates that you are completely unable to accept that there might be any other factors beyond their blackness.
That's why you feel these kind of conversations get shut down. Its because people pretty quickly realise you are just a racist looking for an excuse to criticise black people without having the remotest genuine interest in learning of relevant issues, and these people get bored and realise there is no meaningful conversation to be had
That's why you feel these kind of conversations get shut down. Its because people pretty quickly realise you are just a racist looking for an excuse to criticise black people without having the remotest genuine interest in learning of relevant issues, and these people get bored and realise there is no meaningful conversation to be had
at your lack of comprehension. You don't even know what my racial background is or anything about me. How very stupid of you.Dindoit said:
coldel said:
I don't know your ethnic or racial background, but if you are white caucasian you are better off crossing the street if a white person approaches you than a black one to avoid being stabbed, statistically.
Likewise you’re safer in London than in Lincolnshire, the UK’s murder hotspot. It doesn’t suit the “black=stabby” narrative though.'Lincolnshire (a county - it is quite large and statistically quite safe) comes way down the list.
However, if you'd said Boston (in Lincolnshire) as the UK's murder hotspot you'd be right.
But don't get too excited, the Smoke is VERY close second!
dandarez said:
Dindoit said:
coldel said:
I don't know your ethnic or racial background, but if you are white caucasian you are better off crossing the street if a white person approaches you than a black one to avoid being stabbed, statistically.
Likewise you’re safer in London than in Lincolnshire, the UK’s murder hotspot. It doesn’t suit the “black=stabby” narrative though.'Lincolnshire (a county - it is quite large and statistically quite safe) comes way down the list.
However, if you'd said Boston (in Lincolnshire) as the UK's murder hotspot you'd be right.
But don't get too excited, the Smoke is VERY close second!
Statistically Lincolnshire is less safe than London.
Ahbefive said:
all Irish are drunks.
They pretty much are though.Ahbefive said:
What is fundamentally correct though is that statistically you are more likely to get stabbed by a black man, regardless of that being a reason.
That’s because there’s a culture amongst ( particularly young black males, in certain bits of the country) which says there’s a constant threat, therefore knife carrying is a necessity.Ahbefive said:
Hence rightly or wrongly why some are more likely to get a wide berth in the street and maybe even the employment market and consequently how stereotypes are formed. The cycle of negativity continues.
Quite right, it’s tarring everyone with the same brush, which is human nature ( to an extent).Dindoit said:
2016 there were 11 murders in Lincs (inc 2 in Boston) which is 15 murders per million inhabitants. In London there were 110, aka 13/mil.
Statistically Lincolnshire is less safe than London.
that sounds like the biggest load of daily mail tripe known to man, and 30 seconds of googling backs it up, please try to use a source other than that odious publication, where facts don't matter.Statistically Lincolnshire is less safe than London.
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