Light aircraft disappears with two people on board...
Discussion
rallye101 said:
Pure speculation but I’ve done that ???????? a lot of times, albeit in a twin..
The only time I would ever request a decent to 5000ft would be due to icing before a rapid 180 degree turn back from where I’d come from before the wings/a wing stalled
I think they were at 5000ft & requested a descent to 2300ft, then lost contact.The only time I would ever request a decent to 5000ft would be due to icing before a rapid 180 degree turn back from where I’d come from before the wings/a wing stalled
The weather here in the Channel Islands was pretty rough last night.
Edited by darreni on Tuesday 22 January 19:39
Guvernator said:
How does a plane just disappear? Surely they would have been tracking it on radar so would have some idea of whether it got into trouble and started descending rapidly? Also no mayday calls? Just seems a bit odd in this day and age for it to just disappear without trace.
Unfortunately the English channel is littered with the wrecks of aircraft big and small, that have gone down in it. (See Glenn Miller disappearance for example) and perhaps more lately even when fitted ith a transponder .
Even with air traffic control watching it on radar, and seeing it disappear from their screens, and knowing where and when it went down, there would still be relatively little chance of finding it once a rescue operation reached the scene.
GloverMart said:
Think I read somewhere that he had made the trip twice in the past week from France to Cardiff and back to sort out the deal.
On twitter one of the Cardiff City fan pages claims that on the previous two trips he flew on a different plane - an 'EA50 Eclipse'.https://twitter.com/NotOfficialCCFC/status/1087600...
No doubt the outcome so RIP to all involved.
At the risk of being flamed... and I certainly am not a conspiracist, but one does wonder how much power football clubs have regarding keeping a “confirmed death” quiet until the appropriate insurance is firmly in place.
Can of worms opened...
At the risk of being flamed... and I certainly am not a conspiracist, but one does wonder how much power football clubs have regarding keeping a “confirmed death” quiet until the appropriate insurance is firmly in place.
Can of worms opened...
nikaiyo2 said:
Eric Mc said:
The Malibu is quite a high performance light aircraft - turbocharged and pressurised for high altitude cruising. Some versions have a turboprop engine.
High performance or not, is flying a single engine aircraft at 2300ft over water in terrible weather at night a wise idea? Not much glide if you have an issue 
It reminds me a bit of the crash of the Turbo Commander EI-BGL in 1984.
El stovey said:
I think it’s the fact that it’s single engine that’s important. Obviously if it fails then it’s only going to descend.
Lots of employers (and their insurers) have rules about employees only travelling on twins with guaranteed climb performance if an engine fails.
We got taken over a few years ago and own new owners (who worked in the same "field") had the policy no more than 8 staff on any flight, no more than 2 personal contract holders on a flight (which at the old place meant CEOs I think, but many of us were on non-collective personal contracts due to the individual tweeks in T&Cs....as opposed to "high nett worth contracts as the eventual change become....), flights to be two engined. Then the Bairstow Super Pumas started dropping their Jesus bolts and someone twigged there were often 14 - 16 of us on one single engined machine!Lots of employers (and their insurers) have rules about employees only travelling on twins with guaranteed climb performance if an engine fails.
The eight person rule was got around by now saying "no more than 8 staff plus unlimited contractors", the personal contract changed to "high nett worth" and "except where suitable" put in regards the flight delivery machine.
Still mistakes happen, turned out between 4 jobs all separately booking travel last September there were 22 of us on a flight to Inverness! H&S got word whilst we were up North and quite a few of us were bumped by work (not all going back on teh same flight). I couldn't get a replacement evening flight when I was due to return so came South on the sleeper to be turfed out, hungover on sleeper ration Tatties and whiskey at Preston at 4:30 in the morn to get a taxi for the final 50 miles. I'm not convinced that was any safer.......
I wondered how long before the squabbling started
"Meanwhile, leading sports lawyers told The Telegraph the financial situation could become complex for Cardiff and Nantes in the weeks ahead. The deal was the most Cardiff had ever spent on a player. Richard Santy, a partner at Mills & Reeve, said "usually clubs would have insurance in place to cover this sort of situation", however Alex Haffner, a partner at Fladgate LLP, said "it's an unprecedented situation in terms of the timings."
Both lawyers agreed Cardiff may look to renegotiate with Nantes if they have agreed to pay the £15million fee in instalments. Mr Haffner also suggested there may be complications if paperwork had yet to be cleared at Fifa. Cardiff will also be urgently checking their insurance arrangements, he added"
"Meanwhile, leading sports lawyers told The Telegraph the financial situation could become complex for Cardiff and Nantes in the weeks ahead. The deal was the most Cardiff had ever spent on a player. Richard Santy, a partner at Mills & Reeve, said "usually clubs would have insurance in place to cover this sort of situation", however Alex Haffner, a partner at Fladgate LLP, said "it's an unprecedented situation in terms of the timings."
Both lawyers agreed Cardiff may look to renegotiate with Nantes if they have agreed to pay the £15million fee in instalments. Mr Haffner also suggested there may be complications if paperwork had yet to be cleared at Fifa. Cardiff will also be urgently checking their insurance arrangements, he added"
tescorank said:
I wondered how long before the squabbling started
"Meanwhile, leading sports lawyers told The Telegraph the financial situation could become complex for Cardiff and Nantes in the weeks ahead. The deal was the most Cardiff had ever spent on a player. Richard Santy, a partner at Mills & Reeve, said "usually clubs would have insurance in place to cover this sort of situation", however Alex Haffner, a partner at Fladgate LLP, said "it's an unprecedented situation in terms of the timings."
Both lawyers agreed Cardiff may look to renegotiate with Nantes if they have agreed to pay the £15million fee in instalments. Mr Haffner also suggested there may be complications if paperwork had yet to be cleared at Fifa. Cardiff will also be urgently checking their insurance arrangements, he added"
And whoever allowed their key £15m asset to fly in a single engine over water in wintery conditions... "Meanwhile, leading sports lawyers told The Telegraph the financial situation could become complex for Cardiff and Nantes in the weeks ahead. The deal was the most Cardiff had ever spent on a player. Richard Santy, a partner at Mills & Reeve, said "usually clubs would have insurance in place to cover this sort of situation", however Alex Haffner, a partner at Fladgate LLP, said "it's an unprecedented situation in terms of the timings."
Both lawyers agreed Cardiff may look to renegotiate with Nantes if they have agreed to pay the £15million fee in instalments. Mr Haffner also suggested there may be complications if paperwork had yet to be cleared at Fifa. Cardiff will also be urgently checking their insurance arrangements, he added"
tty weathertescorank said:
I wondered how long before the squabbling started
"Meanwhile, leading sports lawyers told The Telegraph the financial situation could become complex for Cardiff and Nantes in the weeks ahead. The deal was the most Cardiff had ever spent on a player. Richard Santy, a partner at Mills & Reeve, said "usually clubs would have insurance in place to cover this sort of situation", however Alex Haffner, a partner at Fladgate LLP, said "it's an unprecedented situation in terms of the timings."
Both lawyers agreed Cardiff may look to renegotiate with Nantes if they have agreed to pay the £15million fee in instalments. Mr Haffner also suggested there may be complications if paperwork had yet to be cleared at Fifa. Cardiff will also be urgently checking their insurance arrangements, he added"
I did wonder if Cardiff would get a 'refund' but then he wouldn't have been flying had he not signed for them... "Meanwhile, leading sports lawyers told The Telegraph the financial situation could become complex for Cardiff and Nantes in the weeks ahead. The deal was the most Cardiff had ever spent on a player. Richard Santy, a partner at Mills & Reeve, said "usually clubs would have insurance in place to cover this sort of situation", however Alex Haffner, a partner at Fladgate LLP, said "it's an unprecedented situation in terms of the timings."
Both lawyers agreed Cardiff may look to renegotiate with Nantes if they have agreed to pay the £15million fee in instalments. Mr Haffner also suggested there may be complications if paperwork had yet to be cleared at Fifa. Cardiff will also be urgently checking their insurance arrangements, he added"
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1088012417...
Seems like a very outside chance to me, but fingers crossed for them
Seems like a very outside chance to me, but fingers crossed for them
Hundreds if not thousands of small single engine light aircraft cross the Channel and other similar stretches of water every year - and have done so since before World War 2, mostly without incident.
Regarding this incident, I would expect that the pilot of this aircraft (which is a bit more sophisticated than your basic Cessna 150/172) would have been a fully qualified IFR rating (licensed to fly on instruments) or maybe even held a commercial licence.
Here's what a Malibu looks like -
Regarding this incident, I would expect that the pilot of this aircraft (which is a bit more sophisticated than your basic Cessna 150/172) would have been a fully qualified IFR rating (licensed to fly on instruments) or maybe even held a commercial licence.
Here's what a Malibu looks like -
Macski said:
Lots of talk about the player being allowed to go on the plane, presumably he is free to do as he wishes? However surprised your allowed to fly a single engine plane over such a large stretch of sea.
Although it was a small plane I resume the pilot had to be qualified beyond PPL?
Not necessarily.Although it was a small plane I resume the pilot had to be qualified beyond PPL?
When acting as an employee for my company, I am not allowed to take single engine planes or use private "hire" planes (e.g. Wingly)
Only fully commercial services.
Ditto I am not allowed to use AirBnB when travelling on business.
KTF said:
I did wonder if Cardiff would get a 'refund' but then he wouldn't have been flying had he not signed for them...
very messy situation financial (not ignoring the human tragedy) wonder if insurance will cover the signing on fees too, assume thats now part of his estate and cardiff have no recourse.Macski said:
Lots of talk about the player being allowed to go on the plane, presumably he is free to do as he wishes? However surprised your allowed to fly a single engine plane over such a large stretch of sea.
Although it was a small plane I resume the pilot had to be qualified beyond PPL?
Not really. the pilot might have needed a type rating if as reported it was a turboprop. Otherwise a complex aircraft endorsement to cover retractable undercarriage and variable pitch prop.Although it was a small plane I resume the pilot had to be qualified beyond PPL?
They'd need a CPL if they were getting paid for the flight, and normally they would normally have an instrument rating for flying that type of aircraft simply because you can't take full advantage of a relatively sophisticated aircraft without it but it's not compulsory either for the aircraft type or the route.
It's perfectly legal and very common for PPLs with no further qualifications to fly single engined aircraft over the channel or North or Irish sea.
I think you need an instrument rating to fly the atlantic however.
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