Ocado warehouse fire

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Discussion

S11Steve

6,374 posts

183 months

Friday 8th February 2019
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This video was linked elsewhere - it's very impressive tech, but I can see why it was a difficult fire to get under control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKrcpa8Z_E

Sheepshanks

32,519 posts

118 months

Friday 8th February 2019
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Part of firefighter training is how to deal with panicking member of the public - they'll have to update this now to add panicking robots!

peterperkins

3,147 posts

241 months

Friday 8th February 2019
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If it was a robot going up in flames that started it? (Lithium batteries?)
They could give them internal sensors (smoke/heat/BMS) to detect a problem.
Even a battery going into a firery death scenario is likely to work for a good few seconds.

Problem detected it heads at top speed to a special hole in the floor grid and fireproof emergency dump shute which the robot falls into and slides down to the outside.

toastyhamster

1,660 posts

95 months

Friday 8th February 2019
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If it's so automated presumably there would be remote monitoring in place to detect a problem with a robot or any part of the system and send in an 'uman. I've been in some pretty basic industrial sites and even they had basic sensors in place to make sure the ICS/SCADA stuff was operating correctly. That might help with root cause but I can see a battery going up pretty quickly starting an unstoppable chain reaction with that much lithium in the place - just look for people messing about with Tesla batteries on youtube (not sure if they're lithium but I'm using it to make a point anyway).

GSE

2,339 posts

238 months

Friday 8th February 2019
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FM Global said:
Ocado Engineering is announcing it has been given the the prestigious FM Global Highly Protected Risk (HPR) award for the sprinkler system at its Customer Fulfilment Centre (CFC) in Andover. A HPR designation means a facility meets the highest industry standards for property protection against fire. The Andover CFC contains Ocado's latest generation of automated fulfilment for the Ocado Smart Platform (OSP), and shows Ocado's continued commitment to provide a world-class platform to partners.

The Ocado Smart Platform (OSP) is Ocado's end-to-end solution designed to power all aspects of an online retail business. Ocado is now delivering this cutting edge new solution to leading grocery retailers around the world, with four international deals (Groupe Casino in France, Sobeys in Canada, ICA in Sweden and Krogers in the US) closed in less than a year.

HPR is the highest insurance status an installation can achieve and is based on rigorous design, testing and maintenance procedures. Companies that adopt HPR thinking and risk management experience fewer insurance claims, and more consistent and stable shareholder value as HPR properties are better protected.

FM Global is a world leader in commercial property insurance, working with its clients to help protect their facilities and supply chain from both physical and non-physical threats including cyber, fire, storm, flood and machinery breakdown. Working closely with Ocado, FM Global gained an understanding of the business' needs to meet both the requirements for the operation and risk management. Their engineers then worked with Ocado Engineering's Buildings Technology team to create the sprinkler system, other protections and practices which have since achieved the highest level of risk protection for buildings containing the Ocado Smart Platform.



Presenting the award to Ocado (left to right): Owen Lewis (FM Global), Richard Exact, Jon Hillary, Kevin Faux, Philip Johnson (FM Global), Rodney Wicks, Ashley Cox (FM Global) and Paul Wayman (FM Global)

Says Jon Hillary, Logistics Development and Engineering Director at Ocado, "We're proud to be awarded the "Highly Protected Risk" award by FM Global. I want to take this opportunity to thank both FM Global and the Ocado Construction and Buildings Technology team for all their hard work to create a sprinkler system that has reached the highest level of property protection against fire."

Says Philip Johnson, Managing Director at FM Insurance Co. Ltd., "At FM Global, we're delighted to be able to present Ocado with the "Highly Protected Risk" award for their loss prevention commitments at the Customer Fulfilment Centre in Andover, UK. The HPR Award is significant in that it rewards companies that go the extra mile when it comes to a proactive risk management philosophy. The new automatic sprinkler system at the facility provides the greatest protection to fire and reinforces Ocado's commitment to building resilience throughout its operations."
Wow, all the boxes ticked in that corporate marketing release, pat yourselves on the back team biggrin

(seems that the award wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Back to the drawing board then ....)


Marcellus

7,111 posts

218 months

Saturday 9th February 2019
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A warehouse near us went up in smoke last year, within days they’d moved the staff into a new warehouse a few miles away and had some sort of delivery operation going whilst the found more suitable premises.

Would be surprised if Ocado weren’t able to do the same here.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 9th February 2019
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Marcellus said:
A warehouse near us went up in smoke last year, within days they’d moved the staff into a new warehouse a few miles away and had some sort of delivery operation going whilst the found more suitable premises.

Would be surprised if Ocado weren’t able to do the same here.
You haven’t googled Ocado Warehouse have you. A 10 second search will show you why you’re wrong.

b0rk

2,289 posts

145 months

Saturday 9th February 2019
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peterperkins said:
If it was a robot going up in flames that started it? (Lithium batteries?)
They could give them internal sensors (smoke/heat/BMS) to detect a problem.
Even a battery going into a firery death scenario is likely to work for a good few seconds.

Problem detected it heads at top speed to a special hole in the floor grid and fireproof emergency dump shute which the robot falls into and slides down to the outside.
I suspect that a burning robot would likely set fire to one of stock baskets below and considering basket density from there the fire could/would spread.

I would hazard that the special fancy sprinkler system wasn't able to contain the fire to stop it from growing possibly because the batteries don't stop burning when doused with water, ultimately seeing the sprinkler system overwhelmed. This would then allow the fire to reach the insulated (combustible) roof which the sprinker grid was attached to, causing local failure of the roof and total failure of the sprinkler system by virtue of loss of pressure. TBH at the point all the fire service could realistically do would be to protect any chiller / storage tanks and generally retreat from fighting the main warehouse fire let it burn out.

I'd expect there to be design changes to the system going forward probably changing roof insulation to something non combustible and for the warehouses to be zoned into smaller fire resisting compartments with human access possible between the compartments. As it seems the difficulty in the fire service accessing the grid to reach the fire made internal fire fighting impossible.

peterperkins

3,147 posts

241 months

Sunday 10th February 2019
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Unfortunately we don't know if it was a burning robot careering around like a man who has tried to light a bonfire with petrol and has his hair on fire.

Marcellus

7,111 posts

218 months

Sunday 10th February 2019
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Jimboka said:
You haven’t googled Ocado Warehouse have you. A 10 second search will show you why you’re wrong.
Yes I have, and am well aware of the systems/infrastructure Ocado were using at that warehouse.

Also I'm aware of the systems that they are using in other warehouses.

I agree they won't have a like for like up and running, but they would be able to operate from another shed they just need more pickers to do it.

Sheepshanks

32,519 posts

118 months

Sunday 10th February 2019
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Marcellus said:
Jimboka said:
You haven’t googled Ocado Warehouse have you. A 10 second search will show you why you’re wrong.
Yes I have, and am well aware of the systems/infrastructure Ocado were using at that warehouse.

Also I'm aware of the systems that they are using in other warehouses.

I agree they won't have a like for like up and running, but they would be able to operate from another shed they just need more pickers to do it.
..plus, someone said earlier 700 people work there, it’s not like it’s totally automated with just someone to pick a robot up when it falls over.

WatchfulEye

500 posts

127 months

Sunday 10th February 2019
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S11Steve said:
This video was linked elsewhere - it's very impressive tech, but I can see why it was a difficult fire to get under control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DKrcpa8Z_E
That video doesn't really explain how the warehouse is constructed or works.

This video: https://youtu.be/iHC9ec591lI
Better illustrates the technology sales pitch and shows why even a modest fire could render the entire warehouse a total loss.

boobles

15,241 posts

214 months

Monday 11th February 2019
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All these brilliant ideas........ Maybe some of you could re-design the robots for them.

stuntmaneddie

75 posts

134 months

Monday 11th February 2019
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Jordan210 said:
Where abouts are you. In picket Piece police came knocking around 4:30 and later around the new builds fire marshals did.

Was very mixed as some people got told and others dint. Was all confusing,

Edited by Jordan210 on Thursday 7th February 14:30
Tesco end of Pilgrims Jordan. I know someone who was involved in signing off the sprinkler system.....whoops.

Ian974

2,925 posts

198 months

Monday 11th February 2019
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Until watching the linked videos I had no idea that some of these warehouses were being automated to such an extent.

It's a very impressive setup but I'd guess that while you can put as much planning, simulation and prevention into place, you can't really tell what's going to happen until something actually goes up in smoke.

If there was something in a box which caught fire while being loaded back into the middle of a column, you've potentially got a fire anywhere within an enormous block of material several metres deep, tens of metres wide and long, with no method of getting access to it. It wouldn't take much time at all to get out of control.

I'd imagine that is the big problem with it rather than the robots which roll around on top of it.

mcdjl

5,438 posts

194 months

Monday 11th February 2019
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Ian974 said:
Until watching the linked videos I had no idea that some of these warehouses were being automated to such an extent.

It's a very impressive setup but I'd guess that while you can put as much planning, simulation and prevention into place, you can't really tell what's going to happen until something actually goes up in smoke.

If there was something in a box which caught fire while being loaded back into the middle of a column, you've potentially got a fire anywhere within an enormous block of material several metres deep, tens of metres wide and long, with no method of getting access to it. It wouldn't take much time at all to get out of control.

I'd imagine that is the big problem with it rather than the robots which roll around on top of it.
Neither had i until i saw a demo system at an exhibition last year. Really quite hypnotic to watch.

kev1974

4,029 posts

128 months

Monday 11th February 2019
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I guess they need to add some fire fighting robots which just dash to the problem with a tank full of foam.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 11th February 2019
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boobles said:
All these brilliant ideas........ Maybe some of you could re-design the robots for them.
Pistonheads holds all of the very best armchair experts.

Didn't you know that?

boobles

15,241 posts

214 months

Monday 11th February 2019
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CP12 said:
boobles said:
All these brilliant ideas........ Maybe some of you could re-design the robots for them.
Pistonheads holds all of the very best armchair experts.

Didn't you know that?
hehe Powerfully built ones at that. tongue out