How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 8)

[Earthdweller]

alfie2244 said:

toppstuff said:

Conducting trade discussions in public like this with something like beef with Ireland, is a moronic thing to do IMO.

So Gove is a Moron?

No, Gordon is

[toppstuff]

Ayahuasca said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

slow_poke said:

And the wider point is, Gove has identified a possible vulnerability in the Irish Govt (Beef farmers are an influential lobby group in Ireland) and is exploiting or threatening to exploit it, to pressurise the Irish Govt to soften their stance on the backstop.

How to win friends and influence people, try blackmail.

I'm sure the RoW will be falling over themselves to trade with us ...

Why should we favour Irish beef over Brazilian beef?

Depends what we get in return. The other side will want something in return. That may or may not be good or bad for one of our own sectors.

Make a deal on thing and you often give something away elsewhere.

For the EU and japan they let the Japanese sells cars to them on a tariff reducing to zero in exchange for selling food and wine from E.U. producers to Japan.

What would our give and take be with Brazil compared to Ireland ?

[amusingduck]

toppstuff said:

Ayahuasca said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

slow_poke said:

And the wider point is, Gove has identified a possible vulnerability in the Irish Govt (Beef farmers are an influential lobby group in Ireland) and is exploiting or threatening to exploit it, to pressurise the Irish Govt to soften their stance on the backstop.

How to win friends and influence people, try blackmail.

I'm sure the RoW will be falling over themselves to trade with us ...

Why should we favour Irish beef over Brazilian beef?

Depends what we get in return. The other side will want something in return. That may or may not be good or bad for one of our own sectors.

Make a deal on thing and you often give something away elsewhere.

For the EU and japan they let the Japanese sells cars to them on a tariff reducing to zero in exchange for selling food and wine from E.U. producers to Japan.

What would our give and take be with Brazil compared to Ireland ?

The same give and take as with all WTO trade?

[toppstuff]

alfie2244 said:

toppstuff said:

Conducting trade discussions in public like this with something like beef with Ireland, is a moronic thing to do IMO.

So Gove is a Moron?

I quite like Govey Gove the Governator actually.

He is smart. Don’t trust him. But he’s smart.

Playing out trade deals in public is not smart, however.

[toppstuff]

amusingduck said:

toppstuff said:

Ayahuasca said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

slow_poke said:

And the wider point is, Gove has identified a possible vulnerability in the Irish Govt (Beef farmers are an influential lobby group in Ireland) and is exploiting or threatening to exploit it, to pressurise the Irish Govt to soften their stance on the backstop.

How to win friends and influence people, try blackmail.

I'm sure the RoW will be falling over themselves to trade with us ...

Why should we favour Irish beef over Brazilian beef?

Depends what we get in return. The other side will want something in return. That may or may not be good or bad for one of our own sectors.

Make a deal on thing and you often give something away elsewhere.

For the EU and japan they let the Japanese sells cars to them on a tariff reducing to zero in exchange for selling food and wine from E.U. producers to Japan.

What would our give and take be with Brazil compared to Ireland ?

The same give and take as with all WTO trade?

Yep. Many people think we are going to be great at playing the game. It’s going to be awesome apparently with no downsides. At no time will be forced to choose if we sell one of our sectors down the river in order to help another. We will always win.

[Earthdweller]

toppstuff said:

Depends what we get in return. The other side will want something in return. That may or may not be good or bad for one of our own sectors.

Make a deal on thing and you often give something away elsewhere.

For the EU and japan they let the Japanese sells cars to them on a tariff reducing to zero in exchange for selling food and wine from E.U. producers to Japan.

What would our give and take be with Brazil compared to Ireland ?

All they are saying is Irish beef would be subject to the same tariffs as beef produced anywhere else if the Uk goes to WTO

It then becomes a free and fair market

No issues with that

Now, it may make those in Ireland start to panic abou the decimation of their rural economy

But is that an issue for the UK .. no

Coveney believes that the E.U. will pay Irish farmers for doing nothing so all will be well with the world

But will they?

[amusingduck]

toppstuff said:

amusingduck said:

toppstuff said:

Ayahuasca said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

slow_poke said:

And the wider point is, Gove has identified a possible vulnerability in the Irish Govt (Beef farmers are an influential lobby group in Ireland) and is exploiting or threatening to exploit it, to pressurise the Irish Govt to soften their stance on the backstop.

How to win friends and influence people, try blackmail.

I'm sure the RoW will be falling over themselves to trade with us ...

Why should we favour Irish beef over Brazilian beef?

Depends what we get in return. The other side will want something in return. That may or may not be good or bad for one of our own sectors.

Make a deal on thing and you often give something away elsewhere.

For the EU and japan they let the Japanese sells cars to them on a tariff reducing to zero in exchange for selling food and wine from E.U. producers to Japan.

What would our give and take be with Brazil compared to Ireland ?

The same give and take as with all WTO trade?

Yep. Many people think we are going to be great at playing the game. It’s going to be awesome apparently with no downsides. At no time will be forced to choose if we sell one of our sectors down the river in order to help another. We will always win.

Why would we choose to sell one of our sectors down the river to trade on WTO terms?

[slow_poke]

toppstuff said:

alfie2244 said:

toppstuff said:

Conducting trade discussions in public like this with something like beef with Ireland, is a moronic thing to do IMO.

So Gove is a Moron?

I quite like Govey Gove the Governator actually.

He is smart. Don’t trust him. But he’s smart.

Playing out trade deals in public is not smart, however.

My take is, he's doing it on purpose (talking about Brazilian beef deals) in order to put pressure on the Irish Govt to soften their cough on the backstop. Good negotiation skill, if true.

[alfie2244]

toppstuff said:

alfie2244 said:

toppstuff said:

Conducting trade discussions in public like this with something like beef with Ireland, is a moronic thing to do IMO.

So Gove is a Moron?

I quite like Govey Gove the Governator actually.

He is smart. Don’t trust him. But he’s smart.

Playing out trade deals in public is not smart, however.

Reminds me of Brains from Thunderbids.

[Robertj21a]

toppstuff said:

Yep. Many people think we are going to be great at playing the game. It’s going to be awesome apparently with no downsides. At no time will be forced to choose if we sell one of our sectors down the river in order to help another. We will always win.

Who has said that ? - can you give some specific examples ?

[gooner1]

Piha said:

London424 said:

Piha said:

slow_poke said:

Ah ha. Finally, there's some evidence of a UK Minister using his brains and growing a set of balls in EU/UK negotiations. i was wondering when innate British political nous would start showing up. This is clever, identifying a weakness in an opponent and applying pressure to gain wider strategic advantages:

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/f...

Errrr, quite....

Threats have always been the best way to conduct negotiations haven't they...??

Seems to work quite well for some. Seems a bit two faced to call the UK out when they've been on the receiving end enough.

I'd like to think that our UK people are above that kind of behaviour but if you think differently, then that's entirely up to you.

You think the residents of the UK are morally superior to those from other parts of Europe?

[slow_poke]

Earthdweller said:

SpeckledJim said:

slow_poke said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

slow_poke said:

And the wider point is, Gove has identified a possible vulnerability in the Irish Govt (Beef farmers are an influential lobby group in Ireland) and is exploiting or threatening to exploit it, to pressurise the Irish Govt to soften their stance on the backstop.

How to win friends and influence people, try blackmail.

I'm sure the RoW will be falling over themselves to trade with us ...

I'm sure they're all professional politicians and diplomats enough to realise it's nothing personal, just big boy rules. After all, Ireland's been running rings around the UK Govt for the last 12-18 months.

Quite. Everybody's job is to get the best result for their team.

No different to the EU insisting on agreement on the £39bn before any further negotiations could take place.

Got a lever? Use it.

Coveney is saying the E.U. will bail out Irish Farmers so no need to worry

What are the E.U. going to do with 500k cows each year ?

Bullocks. We're talking beef here, so bullocks. The EU can eat tasty, healthy Irish beef steaks. Which is a point - fk the Irish Beef Farmers. They've got a ready market in the rest of the EU, they should've diversified from over-dependence on one customer, the UK, years ago.

Cows is dairy, which is another thing. Cows make milk, and milk makes cheese. Apparently, Irish cheese-makers are vulnerable as well to Brexit because they specialized in producing cheddar type cheeses for the UK market. unlike a tasty steak, there isn't as much potential in the EU markets to sell cheddar. They'll have to learn how to make other types of cheese.

[Earthdweller]

slow_poke said:

Bullocks. We're talking beef here, so bullocks. The EU can eat tasty, healthy Irish beef steaks. Which is a point - fk the Irish Beef Farmers. They've got a ready market in the rest of the EU, they should've diversified from over-dependence on one customer, the UK, years ago.

Cows is dairy, which is another thing. Cows make milk, and milk makes cheese. Apparently, Irish cheese-makers are vulnerable as well to Brexit because they specialized in producing cheddar type cheeses for the UK market. unlike a tasty steak, there isn't as much potential in the EU markets to sell cheddar. They'll have to learn how to make other types of cheese.

That’ll go well then after all French farmers are renowned for accepting changes

I’m sure they will be delighted to have French supermarkets full of Irish beef and cheese

[Vanden Saab]

Earthdweller said:

slow_poke said:

Bullocks. We're talking beef here, so bullocks. The EU can eat tasty, healthy Irish beef steaks. Which is a point - fk the Irish Beef Farmers. They've got a ready market in the rest of the EU, they should've diversified from over-dependence on one customer, the UK, years ago.

Cows is dairy, which is another thing. Cows make milk, and milk makes cheese. Apparently, Irish cheese-makers are vulnerable as well to Brexit because they specialized in producing cheddar type cheeses for the UK market. unlike a tasty steak, there isn't as much potential in the EU markets to sell cheddar. They'll have to learn how to make other types of cheese.

That’ll go well then after all French farmers are renowned for accepting changes

I’m sure they will be delighted to have French supermarkets full of Irish beef and cheese

They will be even more delighted for their own gov. to subsidise the Irish farmers to do it...

[Earthdweller]

Vanden Saab said:

Earthdweller said:

slow_poke said:

Bullocks. We're talking beef here, so bullocks. The EU can eat tasty, healthy Irish beef steaks. Which is a point - fk the Irish Beef Farmers. They've got a ready market in the rest of the EU, they should've diversified from over-dependence on one customer, the UK, years ago.

Cows is dairy, which is another thing. Cows make milk, and milk makes cheese. Apparently, Irish cheese-makers are vulnerable as well to Brexit because they specialized in producing cheddar type cheeses for the UK market. unlike a tasty steak, there isn't as much potential in the EU markets to sell cheddar. They'll have to learn how to make other types of cheese.

That’ll go well then after all French farmers are renowned for accepting changes

I’m sure they will be delighted to have French supermarkets full of Irish beef and cheese

They will be even more delighted for their own gov. to subsidise the Irish farmers to do it...

But, at least their Govt is popular.., oh wait

[SunsetZed]

toppstuff said:

Earthdweller said:

I see the European medicines agency has been told it must honour its London lease for the next 21years at £13m pa

It’s ok they will sublease to one of the long list of corporates queuing to set up here.

That's the spirit, now you're getting the hang of it

[London424]

gooner1 said:

Piha said:

London424 said:

Piha said:

slow_poke said:

Ah ha. Finally, there's some evidence of a UK Minister using his brains and growing a set of balls in EU/UK negotiations. i was wondering when innate British political nous would start showing up. This is clever, identifying a weakness in an opponent and applying pressure to gain wider strategic advantages:

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/f...

Errrr, quite....

Threats have always been the best way to conduct negotiations haven't they...??

Seems to work quite well for some. Seems a bit two faced to call the UK out when they've been on the receiving end enough.

I'd like to think that our UK people are above that kind of behaviour but if you think differently, then that's entirely up to you.

You think the residents of the UK are morally superior to those from other parts of Europe?

Quite shocking xenophobia on display IMO.

[PurpleMoonlight]

London424 said:

Quite shocking xenophobia on display IMO.

Where's that then?

[SpeckledJim]

PurpleMoonlight said:

London424 said:

Quite shocking xenophobia on display IMO.

Where's that then?

Where he implies that British people are better than other people.

Just a little fun.

[Piha]

SpeckledJim said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

London424 said:

Quite shocking xenophobia on display IMO.

Where's that then?

Where he implies that British people are better than other people.

Just a little fun.

If you think that hoping people don't make "threats" to get what they want is xenophobic then I guess you didn't pay attention at school...!