Uk Council tax,. Reform. Needed?
Discussion
PorkRind said:
I live in a fairly large house. 6 bed. It's me the gf and my old man who I look after. My council tax bill is 2500 a year which I think is ridiculous. I think this because of the further issues: 1 surely it should based on number of people in a property the council are collecting refuse, providing police ambulance and fire to, light the streets for etc. It'd not been reformed since 1991 and think just because I'm fortunate enough to have a large ish house in an average town in the southwest I don't really feel I'm Getting my moneys worth. Would a reform of such a tax cause a fall out hence its not been Looked at for so long?
I pay about £10 a day in Council Tax (the highest rate) - and yet I use the same two wheelie bins as everyone else. A house nearby pays about half and they have 7 people living there - there's only 2 in my house. But because I have some land, a swimming pool etc then I pay more because my rubbish must be heavier or something. There is no rationale.It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.
If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
Eric Mc said:
Resulted in riots in London and a massive boost for the call for Scottish independence. Be very aware of unintended consequences.
I cannot think of a single incidence where a major tax reform did not result in people paying more tax.
My wife and I paid less under poll tax. I cannot think of a single incidence where a major tax reform did not result in people paying more tax.
Our neighbours, with 3 adults working obviously paid more.
Seemed fair to me at the time. Still does in fact.
NDA said:
PorkRind said:
I live in a fairly large house. 6 bed. It's me the gf and my old man who I look after. My council tax bill is 2500 a year which I think is ridiculous. I think this because of the further issues: 1 surely it should based on number of people in a property the council are collecting refuse, providing police ambulance and fire to, light the streets for etc. It'd not been reformed since 1991 and think just because I'm fortunate enough to have a large ish house in an average town in the southwest I don't really feel I'm Getting my moneys worth. Would a reform of such a tax cause a fall out hence its not been Looked at for so long?
I pay about £10 a day in Council Tax (the highest rate) - and yet I use the same two wheelie bins as everyone else. A house nearby pays about half and they have 7 people living there - there's only 2 in my house. But because I have some land, a swimming pool etc then I pay more because my rubbish must be heavier or something. There is no rationale.It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.
If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
XCP said:
Eric Mc said:
Resulted in riots in London and a massive boost for the call for Scottish independence. Be very aware of unintended consequences.
I cannot think of a single incidence where a major tax reform did not result in people paying more tax.
My wife and I paid less under poll tax. I cannot think of a single incidence where a major tax reform did not result in people paying more tax.
Our neighbours, with 3 adults working obviously paid more.
Seemed fair to me at the time. Still does in fact.
PorkRind said:
I live in a fairly large house. 6 bed. It's me the gf and my old man who I look after. My council tax bill is 2500 a year which I think is ridiculous. I think this because of the further issues: 1 surely it should based on number of people in a property the council are collecting refuse, providing police ambulance and fire to, light the streets for etc. It'd not been reformed since 1991 and think just because I'm fortunate enough to have a large ish house in an average town in the southwest I don't really feel I'm Getting my moneys worth. Would a reform of such a tax cause a fall out hence its not been Looked at for so long?
Yes it should be reformed. It is meant to be in line with property prices - it isn't. Owners should pay, not tenants. I suspect if it worked like it should you would pay more, not less. I pay more than you do in a one bed flat!Edited by PorkRind on Monday 18th February 01:47
oyster said:
OP, it’s a tax not a service charge.
Your local/county council budget is freely and easily available to view online.
The band, and therefore the charge, would have been clear as mud before you bought your property.
OP, once you understand this, then it's easier to accept.Your local/county council budget is freely and easily available to view online.
The band, and therefore the charge, would have been clear as mud before you bought your property.
Can you imagine the out roar on social media if legislation was proposed for lower tax for the rich and poorer people having to pay for it?
In addition, this tax is looked at as having the added "benefit" of discouraging people buying larger houses in low occupancy since there is a demand for land and housing.
NDA said:
I pay about £10 a day in Council Tax (the highest rate) - and yet I use the same two wheelie bins as everyone else. A house nearby pays about half and they have 7 people living there - there's only 2 in my house. But because I have some land, a swimming pool etc then I pay more because my rubbish must be heavier or something. There is no rationale.
It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.
If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
It's a tax, it's not paying for services. It should operate that the better off pay more. It currently doesn't. It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.
If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
XCP said:
My wife and I paid less under poll tax.
Our neighbours, with 3 adults working obviously paid more.
Seemed fair to me at the time. Still does in fact.
Your version of "fairness" is very simplistic. "I paid less so it must be better". Our neighbours, with 3 adults working obviously paid more.
Seemed fair to me at the time. Still does in fact.
Poll Tax (or to give it its official name, the Community Charge) was crude and not properly based on income levels - which a fair system of taxation should be.
It was also administered by very small entities i.e. local authorities, which means that tracking the movement of individuals, especially tenants, between local government areas was pretty much impossible and overly bureaucratic.
I have no problem with a local form of income tax based on an individual's personal income. The problem is assessing that person at local level and coping with changes in their location over time - especially prevalent amongst those who don't own the property they live in.
Integroo said:
NDA said:
I pay about £10 a day in Council Tax (the highest rate) - and yet I use the same two wheelie bins as everyone else. A house nearby pays about half and they have 7 people living there - there's only 2 in my house. But because I have some land, a swimming pool etc then I pay more because my rubbish must be heavier or something. There is no rationale.
It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.
If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
It's a tax, it's not paying for services. It should operate that the better off pay more. It currently doesn't. It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.
If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
Those who live in larger houses are not necessarily 'better off' - but even if they were, this group pays more than their fair share of taxes already.
oyster said:
OP, it’s a tax not a service charge.
Your local/county council budget is freely and easily available to view online.
The band, and therefore the charge, would have been clear as mud before you bought your property.
Hopefully a little clearer Your local/county council budget is freely and easily available to view online.
The band, and therefore the charge, would have been clear as mud before you bought your property.
When I rent a new place, its all of three minutes work to find out what band and what price for a property.One of the posters above said that councils would be reduced to "only statutory services". Erm, is it just me or given a finite budget, should they not be doing those, and then reflecting on what's left?
NDA said:
It is described by my council as 'Council tax is collected by your local council to pay for services in your community.' But I am aware it's a tax - the clue is in the name.
Those who live in larger houses are not necessarily 'better off' - but even if they were, this group pays more than their fair share of taxes already.
It does pay for services in your community - just not directly correlated to the services you use.Those who live in larger houses are not necessarily 'better off' - but even if they were, this group pays more than their fair share of taxes already.
No, they don't pay "more than their fare share". They pay their share. Some think they should pay more. Some think they should pay less.
Integroo said:
As I also said, it's a poorly implemented tax. I would replace it (and lots of other taxes) with a land value tax.
Trouble there is what do you do if Dorris has lived on said land from birth and is now in her 90’s. Land tax nearly gives her a heart attack she has no cash assets everything is in the land/property. You’d be forcing a generation ripping them out of their houses. That’s not very “fair” Plus to say OAPs can live in flats instead well many don’t want stairs/cannot do that so need bungalows .... not many of those being built as they are land hungry.
I guess you could move them to areas of low population freeing up space... or euthanasia a few to get rid of the issue
NDA said:
Integroo said:
NDA said:
I pay about £10 a day in Council Tax (the highest rate) - and yet I use the same two wheelie bins as everyone else. A house nearby pays about half and they have 7 people living there - there's only 2 in my house. But because I have some land, a swimming pool etc then I pay more because my rubbish must be heavier or something. There is no rationale.
It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.
If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
It's a tax, it's not paying for services. It should operate that the better off pay more. It currently doesn't. It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.
If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
Those who live in larger houses are not necessarily 'better off' - but even if they were, this group pays more than their fair share of taxes already.
according to HMRC (Income Tax Statistics and Distributions).In 2016 the highest earning 1% in the UK paid an estimated 29% of all income taxes
In 2017 the highest earning 1% in the UK paid an estimated 28% of all income taxes
Just look at that increase, one percentage point more fairness! 2018 must have been incredibly fair.
Integroo said:
As I also said, it's a poorly implemented tax. I would replace it (and lots of other taxes) with a land value tax.
How would that be any different from council tax based on value bands? The actually band values are out of date but that doesn’t really matter as its proportional. Would it be levied locally or centrally?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff