Uk Council tax,. Reform. Needed?

Uk Council tax,. Reform. Needed?

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Discussion

NDA

21,488 posts

224 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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Integroo said:
It's a tax, it's not paying for services.
Integroo said:
It does pay for services in your community
Glad we cleared that up.

Integroo

11,574 posts

84 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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Welshbeef said:
Trouble there is what do you do if Dorris has lived on said land from birth and is now in her 90’s. Land tax nearly gives her a heart attack she has no cash assets everything is in the land/property. You’d be forcing a generation ripping them out of their houses. That’s not very “fair”
Plus to say OAPs can live in flats instead well many don’t want stairs/cannot do that so need bungalows .... not many of those being built as they are land hungry.

I guess you could move them to areas of low population freeing up space... or euthanasia a few to get rid of the issue
That's such a minor problem as not to be worth worryif about. There are very few destitute pensioners living in million pound houses. For those view that do exist, liability can be rolled up and collected from estate on death.

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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NDA said:
Integroo said:
It's a tax, it's not paying for services.
Integroo said:
It does pay for services in your community
Glad we cleared that up.
hehe

Integroo

11,574 posts

84 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
NDA said:
Glad we cleared that up.
Well, I should have been clearer: it's not paying directly for the services you personally consume.

Integroo

11,574 posts

84 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
When it comes to income taxes, the position is getting "fairer" wink according to HMRC (Income Tax Statistics and Distributions).

In 2016 the highest earning 1% in the UK paid an estimated 29% of all income taxes
In 2017 the highest earning 1% in the UK paid an estimated 28% of all income taxes

Just look at that increase, one percentage point more fairness! 2018 must have been incredibly fair.
Would it be "fairer" for the top 1% and the bottom 1% to pay the same amount?

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Integroo said:
NDA said:
Glad we cleared that up.
Well, I should have been clearer: it's not paying directly for the services you personally consume.
What services does NDA personally consume?!

Rhetorical question.

Dindoit

1,645 posts

93 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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Sheepshanks said:
PorkRind said:
I live in a fairly large house. 6 bed. It's me the gf and my old man who I look after.
Get your own back - switch to a much smaller house.
That’s the thing, it’s an entirely optional tax band. He’s choosing the highest then complaining about it.

Henners

12,230 posts

193 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
NDA said:
Integroo said:
It's a tax, it's not paying for services.
Integroo said:
It does pay for services in your community
Glad we cleared that up.
hehe
hehe too

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
Integroo said:
turbobloke said:
When it comes to income taxes, the position is getting "fairer" wink according to HMRC (Income Tax Statistics and Distributions).

In 2016 the highest earning 1% in the UK paid an estimated 29% of all income taxes
In 2017 the highest earning 1% in the UK paid an estimated 28% of all income taxes

Just look at that increase, one percentage point more fairness! 2018 must have been incredibly fair.
Would it be "fairer" for the top 1% and the bottom 1% to pay the same amount?
The top 1% of earners pay ~30% of all income taxes, on ~13% of all earnings.

Paying ~13% of all income taxes on ~13% of all earnings would be fair; however is it not the case that taxpayers funding other people's existence don't object so much to paying more than their fair share, but object to "it's not fair" whining from people who fail to appreciate the wider picture which reveals that a most generous 'fairness' is already in operation..



anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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Guvernator said:
When I tell my friends overseas that we pay central AND, local taxes they look at me like I'm from another planet.
As has been pointed out already, this appears to be an entire fabrication. The overseas friends can’t be from USA, Canada, Australia or Europe so that’s a fair old chunk of the world eliminated. Where are these overseas friend from Guvernator?

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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Integroo said:
NDA said:
I pay about £10 a day in Council Tax (the highest rate) - and yet I use the same two wheelie bins as everyone else. A house nearby pays about half and they have 7 people living there - there's only 2 in my house. But because I have some land, a swimming pool etc then I pay more because my rubbish must be heavier or something. There is no rationale.

It is not a fair system - but there is absolutely no chance of it changing. So you have to just suck it up.

If the mentalists get in, it will in fact get worse - McDonnell is very keen to punish anyone even vaguely successful and if you own a nice house, he will be coming after you.
It's a tax, it's not paying for services. It should operate that the better off pay more. It currently doesn't.
On that you’re wrong.

Unless the poor are now buying band F+ houses?

Integroo

11,574 posts

84 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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oyster said:
On that you’re wrong.

Unless the poor are now buying band F+ houses?
So someone earning 1m a year pays 20x the council tax of someone earning 50k a year?

No. In a lot of cases someone on 50k in rented accommodation may pay more. I pay 227pcm, more than the OP in his 6 bed house is moaning about paying, in a one bed flat.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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recordman said:
Move to Kensington & Chelsea. Band H = £2246
Move to Westminster. Band H = £1,420 biglaugh

eyebeebe

2,962 posts

232 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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Eric Mc said:
motco said:
The Lib Dems had a policy of introducing local income tax instead of council tax. That seemed to die the death in very short order for some reason.
Administering local income tax within small local administrative areas (i.e. local authorities) is nightmarish and nigh on impossible.
My personal experience disagrees with that. I pay tax at 4 different levels, all administered by one form.
National/Federal: c. 8m people
Cantonal: c. 160,000
Regional: c. 30,000 people
Community: c. 16,000 people

Rates and allowances can differ between the levels. This system is replicated throughout the whole country. On top of that things tend to work on a per usage level, so I pay £1.75 for each 35l rubbish bag I buy. If I need to interact with the local authorities there is a charge (IIRC something like £20 to change address and £100 for residence permit renewal - every 5 years).

Oh and my tax rate for that is about 14%. I just checked and UK income tax and NI would be 42% on the same income! And then the council tax on top!

Edited by eyebeebe on Monday 18th February 09:20

Integroo

11,574 posts

84 months

Monday 18th February 2019
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
The top 1% of earners pay ~30% of all income taxes, on ~13% of all earnings.

Paying ~13% of all income taxes on ~13% of all earnings would be fair; however is it not the case that taxpayers funding other people's existence don't object so much to paying more than their fair share, but object to "it's not fair" whining from people who fail to appreciate the wider picture which reveals that a most generous 'fairness' is already in operation..
Public services are grossly under resourced. I presume you're against borrowing to fund public services, so taxation needs to increase. Taxing those at the bottom who are already struggling so the wealthy can buy more luxury cars is not "fair". Or perhaps you would cut essential services because you don't use them, at the expense of the poor that do. Is that "fair"?

farmergiles80

73 posts

62 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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Integroo said:
Public services are grossly under resourced. I presume you're against borrowing to fund public services, so taxation needs to increase. Taxing those at the bottom who are already struggling so the wealthy can buy more luxury cars is not "fair". Or perhaps you would cut essential services because you don't use them, at the expense of the poor that do. Is that "fair"?
‘Grossly under resourced’

Is this where you present opinion as fact (again)?

Integroo

11,574 posts

84 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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farmergiles80 said:
‘Grossly under resourced’

Is this where you present opinion as fact (again)?
Do you have any experience of the NHS? To say it's sufficiently resourced would be laughable.

Dindoit

1,645 posts

93 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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farmergiles80 said:
Integroo said:
Public services are grossly under resourced. I presume you're against borrowing to fund public services, so taxation needs to increase. Taxing those at the bottom who are already struggling so the wealthy can buy more luxury cars is not "fair". Or perhaps you would cut essential services because you don't use them, at the expense of the poor that do. Is that "fair"?
‘Grossly under resourced’

Is this where you present opinion as fact (again)?
Strange statement for someone who joined 3wks ago.

PorkRind

Original Poster:

3,053 posts

204 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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768 said:
A 6 bed house probably should be paying more in for some of what council tax pays for. Unless you only want half the house saved from fire.

As above, I pay about £2400 for a 4 bed, I think the OP's on to a winner. Council tax rates seem high to me in general but I don't have a big problem with the distribution of them, you can always move to a smaller house if you think that's going to save you anything.
Well that was it, have been looking at places further southwest, i.e Somerset/Devon as long as we've got 3-4 beds and maybe a 'granny annex' a half acre of garden, detached with stunning views and peace and quiet i'm sure i could cope in a smaller place. I was just fortunate to get the place as a do'er upper. Which is taking its time due to being listed. *facepalm*. Like i said earlier the biggest benefit here is the amount of land we have for parking loads of cars and the gf is a bit green fingered so the gardens rather nice, but the cost of doing the place up, plus hte uber tax bill is bit hard to swallow.

farmergiles80

73 posts

62 months

Monday 18th February 2019
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Dindoit said:
Strange statement for someone who joined 3wks ago.
1. You can read the forum before you’ve joined it.
2. He’s done it on more than one occasion in the last 3 weeks (despite berating others for doing the same).