Islamaphobia in Tory party?
Discussion
Just read article saying party has suspended a dozen members or so for alleged islamaphobia.
Tories suspend 14 members over alleged Islamophobia
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/t...
My question/obsevation is...we have incidents of antisemitism, islamaphobia, homophobia etc...etc... in all walks of life and in all parties doubtless. How common is it in reality? Have you personally experienced it? It seems to me that racism and other 'isms' are endemic in society, culturally ingrained. If we can't sort it out at 'street level' there will always be institutionalised fear of 'the other'. Is this a genuine existential problem or is it same old same old, always has been a problem, always will. Do people care or is apathy and nimbyism prevelant?
Tories suspend 14 members over alleged Islamophobia
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/t...
My question/obsevation is...we have incidents of antisemitism, islamaphobia, homophobia etc...etc... in all walks of life and in all parties doubtless. How common is it in reality? Have you personally experienced it? It seems to me that racism and other 'isms' are endemic in society, culturally ingrained. If we can't sort it out at 'street level' there will always be institutionalised fear of 'the other'. Is this a genuine existential problem or is it same old same old, always has been a problem, always will. Do people care or is apathy and nimbyism prevelant?
biggbn said:
Just read article saying party has suspended a dozen members or so for alleged islamaphobia.
Tories suspend 14 members over alleged Islamophobia
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/t...
My question/obsevation is...we have incidents of antisemitism, islamaphobia, homophobia etc...etc... in all walks of life and in all parties doubtless. How common is it in reality? Have you personally experienced it? It seems to me that racism and other 'isms' are endemic in society, culturally ingrained. If we can't sort it out at 'street level' there will always be institutionalised fear of 'the other'. Is this a genuine existential problem or is it same old same old, always has been a problem, always will. Do people care or is apathy and nimbyism prevelant?
With 30 mins to go before PH shuts down for a while you post this Tories suspend 14 members over alleged Islamophobia
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/t...
My question/obsevation is...we have incidents of antisemitism, islamaphobia, homophobia etc...etc... in all walks of life and in all parties doubtless. How common is it in reality? Have you personally experienced it? It seems to me that racism and other 'isms' are endemic in society, culturally ingrained. If we can't sort it out at 'street level' there will always be institutionalised fear of 'the other'. Is this a genuine existential problem or is it same old same old, always has been a problem, always will. Do people care or is apathy and nimbyism prevelant?
In my day to day life I see no incidents of antisemitism, islamaphobia, or homophobia but the Lithuanians don't seem to like the Polish much although to be honest some of the Polish don't like the Polish
I see plenty. At work 15yrs ago it was rife and open, still there not tolerated openly but bubbling under the surface.
Just read the guardian piece, it's pretty mild compared to some of the stuff I hear day to day. I suspect brighter people just keep thier views private.
Just read the guardian piece, it's pretty mild compared to some of the stuff I hear day to day. I suspect brighter people just keep thier views private.
Edited by PositronicRay on Wednesday 6th March 09:04
I'm not sure why Baroness Warsi has chosen this moment to attack the Tory party for Islamophobia, it comes across as a personal agenda and I think she would be better served directing her efforts towards combating extremism.
As said above I'm sure under the surface there is much dislike and distrust of followers of Islam in the UK, there was the same sentiment towards the Irish during the height of the troubles when they were murdering innocents in England.
Whether it's rational or not It's human nature to dislike a group/religion/movement whose extreme members want to murder you for not being one of them.
As said above I'm sure under the surface there is much dislike and distrust of followers of Islam in the UK, there was the same sentiment towards the Irish during the height of the troubles when they were murdering innocents in England.
Whether it's rational or not It's human nature to dislike a group/religion/movement whose extreme members want to murder you for not being one of them.
Tresco said:
I'm not sure why Baroness Warsi has chosen this moment to attack the Tory party for Islamophobia, it comes across as a personal agenda and I think she would be better served directing her efforts towards combating extremism.
…...
It's just politics, Labour are under pressure with their antisemitism accusations, so there needs to be something on the Conservatives for balance.…...
I'm not sure how we can reconcile rightly banning homophobia and also banning Islamophobia at the same time.
Islam is a professed homophobic institution.
Why do we abhor homophobia but support homophobic Islam? Why don't we require Islam to recant their homophobia, now that we have correctly recognised it has no place?
Will a politician address this hypocrisy? They will not.
Islam is a professed homophobic institution.
Why do we abhor homophobia but support homophobic Islam? Why don't we require Islam to recant their homophobia, now that we have correctly recognised it has no place?
Will a politician address this hypocrisy? They will not.
SpeckledJim said:
…...
Why do we abhor homophobia but support homophobic Islam? Why don't we require Islam to recant their homophobia, now that we have correctly recognised it has no place?
…..
Supporters of Islam are not singled out as being immune to prosecution under the Equalities Act, no religious group are. If a Christian baker can be (rightly) prosecuted for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding, the same would apply to a supporter of Islam who did the same.Why do we abhor homophobia but support homophobic Islam? Why don't we require Islam to recant their homophobia, now that we have correctly recognised it has no place?
…..
What we need isn't more laws as the ones we have are perfectly fine, what we need is a few test cases to reinforce that those laws will be applied universally and without any 'special' relaxation for any specific group.
The Surveyor said:
SpeckledJim said:
…...
Why do we abhor homophobia but support homophobic Islam? Why don't we require Islam to recant their homophobia, now that we have correctly recognised it has no place?
…..
Supporters of Islam are not singled out as being immune to prosecution under the Equalities Act, no religious group are. If a Christian baker can be (rightly) prosecuted for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding, the same would apply to a supporter of Islam who did the same.Why do we abhor homophobia but support homophobic Islam? Why don't we require Islam to recant their homophobia, now that we have correctly recognised it has no place?
…..
What we need isn't more laws as the ones we have are perfectly fine, what we need is a few test cases to reinforce that those laws will be applied universally and without any 'special' relaxation for any specific group.
What has been done within that legislation to tackle the dozens of homophobic parents calling for Andrew Moffatt's livelihood and worse?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-4...
Protesters, who have held a number of demonstrations outside the school gates, claim he is "promoting... personal beliefs and convictions about universal acceptability of homosexuality as being normal and morally correct".
400 homophobes signed a petition, so not too difficult to identify. Consequences?
The Surveyor said:
Tresco said:
I'm not sure why Baroness Warsi has chosen this moment to attack the Tory party for Islamophobia, it comes across as a personal agenda and I think she would be better served directing her efforts towards combating extremism.
…...
It's just politics, Labour are under pressure with their antisemitism accusations, so there needs to be something on the Conservatives for balance.…...
What I don't get is why she would attack her own party, I've no doubt she has received personal anti Muslim attacks but in the age of social media, which all MP's seem to embrace, that's now part of the territory, the same no doubt if you're a gay, black, trans, outspoken, Brexit supporting/remain supporting MP.
Doesn't make it right of course, but seems a knee jerk to take to the news channels saying "I get attacks therefore my Party is Islamophobic".
Tresco said:
What I don't get is why she would attack her own party, I've no doubt she has received personal anti Muslim attacks but in the age of social media, which all MP's seem to embrace, that's now part of the territory, the same no doubt if you're a gay, black, trans, outspoken, Brexit supporting/remain supporting MP.
Doesn't make it right of course, but seems a knee jerk to take to the news channels saying "I get attacks therefore my Party is Islamophobic".
Do you think you should have a word with Margaret Hodge and Luciana Berger? or is that different?Doesn't make it right of course, but seems a knee jerk to take to the news channels saying "I get attacks therefore my Party is Islamophobic".
The Surveyor said:
Supporters of Islam are not singled out as being immune to prosecution under the Equalities Act, no religious group are. [/b]If a Christian baker can be (rightly) prosecuted for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding, the same would apply to a supporter of Islam who did the same.[/b]
What we need isn't more laws as the ones we have are perfectly fine, what we need is a few test cases to reinforce that those laws will be applied universally and without any 'special' relaxation for any specific group.
They won on appeal (rightly).What we need isn't more laws as the ones we have are perfectly fine, what we need is a few test cases to reinforce that those laws will be applied universally and without any 'special' relaxation for any specific group.
Tresco said:
I'm not sure why Baroness Warsi has chosen this moment to attack the Tory party for Islamophobia, it comes across as a personal agenda and I think she would be better served directing her efforts towards combating extremism.
As said above I'm sure under the surface there is much dislike and distrust of followers of Islam in the UK, there was the same sentiment towards the Irish during the height of the troubles when they were murdering innocents in England.
Whether it's rational or not It's human nature to dislike a group/religion/movement whose extreme members want to murder you for not being one of them.
She's been campaigning on this for months, I think it has reached a point where the the media felt they couldn't ignore it any more.As said above I'm sure under the surface there is much dislike and distrust of followers of Islam in the UK, there was the same sentiment towards the Irish during the height of the troubles when they were murdering innocents in England.
Whether it's rational or not It's human nature to dislike a group/religion/movement whose extreme members want to murder you for not being one of them.
I suspect most people don't think it's news that there are racists in the Tory party given the track record of the former home secretary, now PM.
AJL308 said:
Something which annoys the s
t out of me these days is the application of "phobia" to the end of anything which people find objectionable or are trying to make a cause out of.
A phobia is an irrational fear of something not a hatred of, or an objection to, something.
Agreed, I think the word is used out of context a lot. Criticising aspects of judeasim, Islam, Christianity etc...should be acceptable behaviour, acting on and discriminating against people of faith should not, same goes for any other protected characteristic. t out of me these days is the application of "phobia" to the end of anything which people find objectionable or are trying to make a cause out of. A phobia is an irrational fear of something not a hatred of, or an objection to, something.
biggbn said:
AJL308 said:
Something which annoys the st out of me these days is the application of "phobia" to the end of anything which people find objectionable or are trying to make a cause out of.
A phobia is an irrational fear of something not a hatred of, or an objection to, something.
Agreed, I think the word is used out of context a lot. Criticising aspects of judeasim, Islam, Christianity etc...should be acceptable behaviour, acting on and discriminating against people of faith should not, same goes for any other protected characteristic. t out of me these days is the application of "phobia" to the end of anything which people find objectionable or are trying to make a cause out of. A phobia is an irrational fear of something not a hatred of, or an objection to, something.
Choose your favourite protected characteristic, because you can't protect both.
Awkward one...?
SpeckledJim said:
The Surveyor said:
SpeckledJim said:
…...
Why do we abhor homophobia but support homophobic Islam? Why don't we require Islam to recant their homophobia, now that we have correctly recognised it has no place?
…..
Supporters of Islam are not singled out as being immune to prosecution under the Equalities Act, no religious group are. If a Christian baker can be (rightly) prosecuted for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding, the same would apply to a supporter of Islam who did the same.Why do we abhor homophobia but support homophobic Islam? Why don't we require Islam to recant their homophobia, now that we have correctly recognised it has no place?
…..
What we need isn't more laws as the ones we have are perfectly fine, what we need is a few test cases to reinforce that those laws will be applied universally and without any 'special' relaxation for any specific group.
What has been done within that legislation to tackle the dozens of homophobic parents calling for Andrew Moffatt's livelihood and worse?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-4...
Protesters, who have held a number of demonstrations outside the school gates, claim he is "promoting... personal beliefs and convictions about universal acceptability of homosexuality as being normal and morally correct".
400 homophobes signed a petition, so not too difficult to identify. Consequences?
SpeckledJim said:
biggbn said:
AJL308 said:
Something which annoys the st out of me these days is the application of "phobia" to the end of anything which people find objectionable or are trying to make a cause out of.
A phobia is an irrational fear of something not a hatred of, or an objection to, something.
Agreed, I think the word is used out of context a lot. Criticising aspects of judeasim, Islam, Christianity etc...should be acceptable behaviour, acting on and discriminating against people of faith should not, same goes for any other protected characteristic. t out of me these days is the application of "phobia" to the end of anything which people find objectionable or are trying to make a cause out of. A phobia is an irrational fear of something not a hatred of, or an objection to, something.
Choose your favourite protected characteristic, because you can't protect both.
Awkward one...?
edh said:
Tresco said:
What I don't get is why she would attack her own party, I've no doubt she has received personal anti Muslim attacks but in the age of social media, which all MP's seem to embrace, that's now part of the territory, the same no doubt if you're a gay, black, trans, outspoken, Brexit supporting/remain supporting MP.
Doesn't make it right of course, but seems a knee jerk to take to the news channels saying "I get attacks therefore my Party is Islamophobic".
Do you think you should have a word with Margaret Hodge and Luciana Berger? or is that different?Doesn't make it right of course, but seems a knee jerk to take to the news channels saying "I get attacks therefore my Party is Islamophobic".
I doubt anybody would disagree with the Labour MP's who have called out anti Semitism in their party.
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