Shamima Begum...
Discussion
Just to point out, am not claiming my point to be correct, it's just my feelings on the matter. One can equally argue that had they brought her back, jailed her and her kid died in our care system, she would equally become cause celebre for the fundamentalists. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I will confess, I like debating these points, I am a philosopher and love seeing the thought processes at work. As a scientific friend pointed out, we should ALWAYS listen to the questions philosophers ask...but rarely the answers they provide.
On that note am off to work. Peace, gbn X
On that note am off to work. Peace, gbn X
I'm not convinced there was any kid.
And if there was, and it died, it is entirely her fault for getting up the duff and giving birth in a total s
thole. Her choice
As for her dad apologising for her, to the UK. He should be apologising for his part in bringing such and ahole into the world and raising her as he did.
And if there was, and it died, it is entirely her fault for getting up the duff and giving birth in a total s
thole. Her choice As for her dad apologising for her, to the UK. He should be apologising for his part in bringing such and a
hole into the world and raising her as he did. biggbn said:
That is the point I am making? Her kid is now a martyr to the cause and the British government a bigger enemy than it was thanks to the home secretary's posturing.
Only because people here and others keep saying so.She made her choice and should be left to get on with it.
If that was the line that is followed we wouldn’t have a problem. The bleeding hearts keep banging on about poor girl and poor baby. It’s 100% her responsibly she bought 3 babies into this world and they all died.
She really doesn’t give a damm and only wants her old life back which she happily abandoned.
Let her rot in her chosen life.
Ian Geary said:
...
No one forced Javid to revoke her citizenship: in fact that action has been shown to be contrary to international law.
...
Not sure that's true despite the glee with which it has been reported Javid has fvcked this up. Anyone born in the UK to Bangladeshi parents is apparently automatically a Bangladeshi citizen until they are 21. Revoking her citizenship would not therefore leave her stateless. Can't blame the Bangladashi's for not wanting her though.No one forced Javid to revoke her citizenship: in fact that action has been shown to be contrary to international law.
...
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/bangladesh-d...
I’ve actually got high hopes that this is somewhat of a turning point in the “soft touch” that the UK is perceived to be by revoking her citicenzship.
In a strange twist it could actually remove some of the fuel from Tommy R’s fire. I doubt it will, but you never know. Maybe they won’t feel so afraid all the time and perhaps less marginalised (in their warped perceptions anyway) but alas, I’m sure they would find some other “cause” to pin all their own failings on. Poor sods.
But back to the point. This could be a high watermark point. The child is now (unfortunately) out of the equation which simplifies things somewhat for the UK gov.
She isn’t coming back now. I’d put money on it.
In a strange twist it could actually remove some of the fuel from Tommy R’s fire. I doubt it will, but you never know. Maybe they won’t feel so afraid all the time and perhaps less marginalised (in their warped perceptions anyway) but alas, I’m sure they would find some other “cause” to pin all their own failings on. Poor sods.
But back to the point. This could be a high watermark point. The child is now (unfortunately) out of the equation which simplifies things somewhat for the UK gov.
She isn’t coming back now. I’d put money on it.
0ddball said:
I'm not convinced it has died, but the story certainly plays in her favour. It's all our fault now.
Sajid Javed also wanted to be seen as tough, tackling the issue, but it's more for political gain. He knows Theresa May will be leaving the process soon, to coin a term from The Apprentice. He doesn't want to be seen offering a way out to his fellow Muslim so he had to void her citizenship, along with her son who may have passed away, which technically means she doesn't have to come home now...She was keen enough to nick her sister's passport and go out there to the Levant as an ISIS bride. Perhaps we will see her in a few weeks off the coastline at Dymchurch in a dinghy with a few other migrants...
JuanCarlosFandango said:
I don't see why it makes the British government a bigger enemy to anyone who wasn't a fairly committed enemy to start with.
Were they meant to fly her home on demand?
This basicallyWere they meant to fly her home on demand?
We are fighting an enemy that flies passenger airplanes into buildings, throw gays off the tops of buildings and behead the unbeliever if they can. They are then supposed to be further radicalised if the British government takes some feeble steps to protect the public. Further radicalised to what?, they already seem pretty far out there.
biggbn said:
Just to point out, am not claiming my point to be correct, it's just my feelings on the matter. One can equally argue that had they brought her back, jailed her and her kid died in our care system, she would equally become cause celebre for the fundamentalists. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I will confess, I like debating these points, I am a philosopher and love seeing the thought processes at work. As a scientific friend pointed out, we should ALWAYS listen to the questions philosophers ask...but rarely the answers they provide.
On that note am off to work. Peace, gbn X
The simple philosophy behind Shamima's individual circumstances is that of actions vs consequences. On that note am off to work. Peace, gbn X
To understand better the recent consequences to her actions perhaps you ought to think more about why she went to the Levant and the ideals of the organisation she pleged her support to...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_the_Isla...
Ian Geary said:
We may sit snugly in our 1st world set up, admonishing those who left for the 3rd world, but our principles are what defines the first world (well, that and running water, heat, medicine, rule of law, queueing ..etc)
What principle requires us to take in a self proclaimed terrorist supporter who stole her sister's passport to join a death cult?JuanCarlosFandango said:
Ian Geary said:
We may sit snugly in our 1st world set up, admonishing those who left for the 3rd world, but our principles are what defines the first world (well, that and running water, heat, medicine, rule of law, queueing ..etc)
What principle requires us to take in a self proclaimed terrorist supporter who stole her sister's passport to join a death cult?We’ve been too soft on them for a while now.
I don’t really understand the defenders of her... I mean I may got this wrong but:
1- She left Britain and renegued its vain values by joining an extreme and violent terrorist group;
2- She posted on social media the sombolic act of burning the British passports;
3- She went there freely and I. Her interviews never said she was coerced to stay or wanted to escape ISIS;
4- She reaffirms life was good as promised and when she was 15 she made a choice knowingly;
5- She states it was normal and she felt nothing seeing beheaded heads in a bin;
6- She still believes in the doctrines but know also states she also accepts some British values;
7- She is not regretting her choice or saying she made a mistake then.
8- She is still a radical as before in my opinion.
Why should we support her, spend thousand of pounds in hailing, prosecuting her when there are many families in the U.K., hardworking that have difficulties. I say help them first. In my opinion this woman if brought to uk and jailed will “preach” her beliefs on the vulnerable people that populate our prisons and I wouldn’t be surprised if a terrieist attract in 10-20 years was by people she “influenced”.
If she is so against western culture and wants to exercise her faith fully there are many countries where she can live 100% embracing that. Why does she not choose to go there?
We all know why the real reasons is that the caliphate dream was shattered, she wants safe and cosy and that’s the UK. Had ISIS not been shattered she would not be asking to come here. On an extreme view maybe she is asking to come back as part of a plan to create a terrorist cell here being it ideological/recruiting, etc.
I think she made a bit decision when she left she should now stick with it. After all aren’t they all prepared to die for their cause?
I think we have enough tragic social and humanitarian problems within our borders why spend resources on someone like her? In my view on the long queue of “deserving” help she is right at the back.
The mediations me she earned is excessive and unjustified.
1- She left Britain and renegued its vain values by joining an extreme and violent terrorist group;
2- She posted on social media the sombolic act of burning the British passports;
3- She went there freely and I. Her interviews never said she was coerced to stay or wanted to escape ISIS;
4- She reaffirms life was good as promised and when she was 15 she made a choice knowingly;
5- She states it was normal and she felt nothing seeing beheaded heads in a bin;
6- She still believes in the doctrines but know also states she also accepts some British values;
7- She is not regretting her choice or saying she made a mistake then.
8- She is still a radical as before in my opinion.
Why should we support her, spend thousand of pounds in hailing, prosecuting her when there are many families in the U.K., hardworking that have difficulties. I say help them first. In my opinion this woman if brought to uk and jailed will “preach” her beliefs on the vulnerable people that populate our prisons and I wouldn’t be surprised if a terrieist attract in 10-20 years was by people she “influenced”.
If she is so against western culture and wants to exercise her faith fully there are many countries where she can live 100% embracing that. Why does she not choose to go there?
We all know why the real reasons is that the caliphate dream was shattered, she wants safe and cosy and that’s the UK. Had ISIS not been shattered she would not be asking to come here. On an extreme view maybe she is asking to come back as part of a plan to create a terrorist cell here being it ideological/recruiting, etc.
I think she made a bit decision when she left she should now stick with it. After all aren’t they all prepared to die for their cause?
I think we have enough tragic social and humanitarian problems within our borders why spend resources on someone like her? In my view on the long queue of “deserving” help she is right at the back.
The mediations me she earned is excessive and unjustified.
CrgT16 said:
I don’t really understand the defenders of her... I mean I may got this wrong but:
1- She left Britain and renegued its vain values by joining an extreme and violent terrorist group;
2- She posted on social media the sombolic act of burning the British passports;
3- She went there freely and I. Her interviews never said she was coerced to stay or wanted to escape ISIS;
4- She reaffirms life was good as promised and when she was 15 she made a choice knowingly;
5- She states it was normal and she felt nothing seeing beheaded heads in a bin;
6- She still believes in the doctrines but know also states she also accepts some British values;
7- She is not regretting her choice or saying she made a mistake then.
8- She is still a radical as before in my opinion.
Why should we support her, spend thousand of pounds in hailing, prosecuting her when there are many families in the U.K., hardworking that have difficulties. I say help them first. In my opinion this woman if brought to uk and jailed will “preach” her beliefs on the vulnerable people that populate our prisons and I wouldn’t be surprised if a terrieist attract in 10-20 years was by people she “influenced”.
If she is so against western culture and wants to exercise her faith fully there are many countries where she can live 100% embracing that. Why does she not choose to go there?
We all know why the real reasons is that the caliphate dream was shattered, she wants safe and cosy and that’s the UK. Had ISIS not been shattered she would not be asking to come here. On an extreme view maybe she is asking to come back as part of a plan to create a terrorist cell here being it ideological/recruiting, etc.
I think she made a bit decision when she left she should now stick with it. After all aren’t they all prepared to die for their cause?
I think we have enough tragic social and humanitarian problems within our borders why spend resources on someone like her? In my view on the long queue of “deserving” help she is right at the back.
The mediations me she earned is excessive and unjustified.
Two gentlemen had their citizenship withdrawn in the same was as her. Don’t see much protest about the unfairness of that. Perhaps unfairness only applies to photogenic young ladies and not members of paedophile gangs?1- She left Britain and renegued its vain values by joining an extreme and violent terrorist group;
2- She posted on social media the sombolic act of burning the British passports;
3- She went there freely and I. Her interviews never said she was coerced to stay or wanted to escape ISIS;
4- She reaffirms life was good as promised and when she was 15 she made a choice knowingly;
5- She states it was normal and she felt nothing seeing beheaded heads in a bin;
6- She still believes in the doctrines but know also states she also accepts some British values;
7- She is not regretting her choice or saying she made a mistake then.
8- She is still a radical as before in my opinion.
Why should we support her, spend thousand of pounds in hailing, prosecuting her when there are many families in the U.K., hardworking that have difficulties. I say help them first. In my opinion this woman if brought to uk and jailed will “preach” her beliefs on the vulnerable people that populate our prisons and I wouldn’t be surprised if a terrieist attract in 10-20 years was by people she “influenced”.
If she is so against western culture and wants to exercise her faith fully there are many countries where she can live 100% embracing that. Why does she not choose to go there?
We all know why the real reasons is that the caliphate dream was shattered, she wants safe and cosy and that’s the UK. Had ISIS not been shattered she would not be asking to come here. On an extreme view maybe she is asking to come back as part of a plan to create a terrorist cell here being it ideological/recruiting, etc.
I think she made a bit decision when she left she should now stick with it. After all aren’t they all prepared to die for their cause?
I think we have enough tragic social and humanitarian problems within our borders why spend resources on someone like her? In my view on the long queue of “deserving” help she is right at the back.
The mediations me she earned is excessive and unjustified.
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