Ethiopian plane crash
Discussion
IforB said:
The issue for me has little to do with the actual problem with MCAS, it is the culture of Boeing that has lead up to it and allowed it to happen.
I'd happily fly a Max knowing what the problem is now, the thing that is concerning me is whether there are any other elephant traps that have been hidden.
I suspect not, but my trust of Boeing has been smashed to bits and I say that as someone who has a lot of time flying their products.
I agree IforB, the thing that has been highlighted the most from this accident is how much the FAA and Boeing are in bed together. Self certifying systems without the FAA really understanding what’s going on. I'd happily fly a Max knowing what the problem is now, the thing that is concerning me is whether there are any other elephant traps that have been hidden.
I suspect not, but my trust of Boeing has been smashed to bits and I say that as someone who has a lot of time flying their products.
The FAA are supposed to be an independent overseeing body. Which it appears they aren’t anymore.
A previous poster has said that EASA for example had a reciprocating agreement that if the FAA say its good then EASA will take there word for it. This I think in now really under jeopardy. EASA have openly said just because when the FAA say it’s certified and safe there not going to just take there word for it anymore. And it’s not just EASA that have expressed this opinion I believe.
MB140 said:
I agree IforB, the thing that has been highlighted the most from this accident is how much the FAA and Boeing are in bed together. Self certifying systems without the FAA really understanding what’s going on.
The FAA are supposed to be an independent overseeing body. Which it appears they aren’t anymore.
A previous poster has said that EASA for example had a reciprocating agreement that if the FAA say its good then EASA will take there word for it. This I think in now really under jeopardy. EASA have openly said just because when the FAA say it’s certified and safe there not going to just take there word for it anymore. And it’s not just EASA that have expressed this opinion I believe.
Boeing have been doing a lot of the certification since the 787. That and the outsourcing and cost cutting were the cause of many of the (ongoing) problems on it. I hoped it would improve after the 787 but it’s obviously got much worse on the MAX. The FAA are supposed to be an independent overseeing body. Which it appears they aren’t anymore.
A previous poster has said that EASA for example had a reciprocating agreement that if the FAA say its good then EASA will take there word for it. This I think in now really under jeopardy. EASA have openly said just because when the FAA say it’s certified and safe there not going to just take there word for it anymore. And it’s not just EASA that have expressed this opinion I believe.
The longer this goes on the less tempted I’d be to ever get on a Max or whatever they choose to rename it. The fact it’s gone on this long pretty much confirms Boeing’s frig of the inherent instability caused by the bigger engines was nothing more than a massive bodge. The fact they supply planes with one AOA sensor makes it even more laughable.
No civilian aircraft should be able to uncontrollably face plant no matter what the abilities as long as it has two certified pilots sitting up front, I don’t say that as a layman of any sort, just a regular 737 flyer who would rather not end my life in that fashion.
No civilian aircraft should be able to uncontrollably face plant no matter what the abilities as long as it has two certified pilots sitting up front, I don’t say that as a layman of any sort, just a regular 737 flyer who would rather not end my life in that fashion.
Edited by Cupramax on Sunday 22 September 21:52
George Smiley said:
2 aoa sensors but only feed from one at a time.
It was pointed out (on PPrune IIRC) that if they had a warning about the AOA sensors disagreeing, they would need to add a procedure to the flight manual covering what to do in that case. Which would break their "no pilot retraining" mantra.
https://youtu.be/JlocOX7tuU0
I have to agree with him about the race to the bottom,cost wise, it must have an impact, but as he says it's never just a single
thing that leads to a disaster.
I have to agree with him about the race to the bottom,cost wise, it must have an impact, but as he says it's never just a single
thing that leads to a disaster.
Cracks found now.
https://komonews.com/news/local/exclusive-unexpect...
Again to stress I have no idea how "every day" this kind of thing actually is v things appearing on news sites simply as Boeing are in the spotlight.
https://komonews.com/news/local/exclusive-unexpect...
Again to stress I have no idea how "every day" this kind of thing actually is v things appearing on news sites simply as Boeing are in the spotlight.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: Cracks found now.
https://komonews.com/news/local/exclusive-unexpect...
Again to stress I have no idea how "every day" this kind of thing actually is v things appearing on news sites simply as Boeing are in the spotlight.
You almost fooled me with this. Not goodhttps://komonews.com/news/local/exclusive-unexpect...
Again to stress I have no idea how "every day" this kind of thing actually is v things appearing on news sites simply as Boeing are in the spotlight.
This issue does not affect any 737 MAX airplanes or the P-8 Poseidon," a Boeing spokesperson wrote.
Penelope Stopit said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Cracks found now.
https://komonews.com/news/local/exclusive-unexpect...
Again to stress I have no idea how "every day" this kind of thing actually is v things appearing on news sites simply as Boeing are in the spotlight.
You almost fooled me with this. Not goodhttps://komonews.com/news/local/exclusive-unexpect...
Again to stress I have no idea how "every day" this kind of thing actually is v things appearing on news sites simply as Boeing are in the spotlight.
This issue does not affect any 737 MAX airplanes or the P-8 Poseidon," a Boeing spokesperson wrote.
https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/debris-from...
El stovey said:
Penelope Stopit said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Cracks found now.
https://komonews.com/news/local/exclusive-unexpect...
Again to stress I have no idea how "every day" this kind of thing actually is v things appearing on news sites simply as Boeing are in the spotlight.
You almost fooled me with this. Not goodhttps://komonews.com/news/local/exclusive-unexpect...
Again to stress I have no idea how "every day" this kind of thing actually is v things appearing on news sites simply as Boeing are in the spotlight.
This issue does not affect any 737 MAX airplanes or the P-8 Poseidon," a Boeing spokesperson wrote.
https://komonews.com/news/nation-world/debris-from...
Safer in a aeroplane than on the ground
what could possibly go wrong.Penelope Stopit said:
Can't begin to try and understand this but worth asking
What do you mean?
He’s saying Boeing are misleading us and the issue will likely also affect the 737max despite what Boeing is saying.What do you mean?
It’s not necessary the case though as there’s loads of combinations of wings and winglets on 737s and 737NGs depending on whether they were made with winglets or as an aftermarket add on like some of the 737 NG models were.
So Boeing might be right when they say a problem affecting some 737NG wings might not affect the 737 MAX.
El stovey said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Can't begin to try and understand this but worth asking
What do you mean?
He’s saying Boeing are misleading us and the issue will likely also affect the 737max despite what Boeing is saying.What do you mean?
It’s not necessary the case though as there’s loads of combinations of wings and winglets on 737s and 737NGs depending on whether they were made with winglets or as an aftermarket add on like some of the 737 NG models were.
So Boeing might be right when they say a problem affecting some 737NG wings might not affect the 737 MAX.
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