No gas boilers in new homes after 2025.

[Nickgnome]

kev1974 said:

brman said:

Contrast that with the usual state of new builds in the UK. 8" of loft insulation but with a dozen big holes in it to clear the bathroom downlights. Dot and dab plasterboard walls giving an air gap up to the loft so wind whistles through the sockets all round the house. We really do build crap houses.....

lol, I recently (January) stayed in a "holiday cottage" that was newly built, about 9 months since completion, and which had been unoccupied the week before. It had under floor heating throughout which took about two days to get the place to an acceptable temperature, the only other heat source was electric towel rail radiators in each bathroom that each had two hour timers on them, I had to keep running round to put them on again to get some heat in the place to keep everyone warm.

But yes the worst thing was the ice cold draughts pouring through all the wall sockets! I guess this would be due to the air gap behind the plasterboard that you're mentioning. There wasn't a loft in this place, it was bunker style with a flat roof.

We looked its sale price up, the place had cost the best part of £1m and still had this hopeless heating and cold air belching from all the wall sockets.

Air tightness is a big problem of shoddy building. Its OK stuffing the walls and roof full of insulation but the house must be made airtight to Passivhaus standards ideally.

[Smokehead]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Air Source Heat Pumps cost more to run than a modern natural gas combi boiler. Does this mean gas prices being inflated to make the Air Pump cheaper to run?

[48Valves]

mondeoman said:

what a crap idea.

Any particular scientific theory behind that statement? Or just is it the thought of change that you don't like?

[Nickgnome]

Smokehead said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that Air Source Heat Pumps cost more to run than a modern natural gas combi boiler. Does this mean gas prices being inflated to make the Air Pump cheaper to run?

if you have the evidence it is usual practice to post it, otherwise it is an unsubstantiated claim.

[Nickgnome]

fido said:

Groan. I've just spanked 6 big ones on a new system boiler. I suppose I could still add on supplementary heat sources - have a large enough garden for ground source.

£6,000 are you serious. Are you heating the whole street?

[s2art]

Nickgnome said:

Smokehead said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that Air Source Heat Pumps cost more to run than a modern natural gas combi boiler. Does this mean gas prices being inflated to make the Air Pump cheaper to run?

if you have the evidence it is usual practice to post it, otherwise it is an unsubstantiated claim.

http://www.narecde.co.uk/air-source-heat-pumps-vs-gas-boilers/#.XIp7PCj7TIU

many other examples. Google it.

[abzmike]

But as an expert on the topic the Chancellor of the Exchequer advises us that all these trifling issues can be resolved in 5 years... So that's fine then.

[Smokehead]

Nickgnome said:

Smokehead said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that Air Source Heat Pumps cost more to run than a modern natural gas combi boiler. Does this mean gas prices being inflated to make the Air Pump cheaper to run?

if you have the evidence it is usual practice to post it, otherwise it is an unsubstantiated claim.

For instance, from this website - https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2016/02/pros-and...

Air Source Heat Pumps Disadvantages

The main air source heat pumps disadvantages associated with air source heat pumps are listed below:

This type of Air Source heating lowers heat supply compared to oil and gas boilers, so larger radiators would be needed
They perform better with underfloor heating or warm air heating and work more efficiently when coupled with larger radiators
Air source heat pumps are not the best option if you live on gas mains
They need electricity to be powered if there is no access to solar energy or wind power
You would need a highly insulated home to reap the high energy savings benefits
Noisy like an air conditioner when it is running
Less efficient in winter due to low Coefficient of Performance (COP) levels

[brman]

Smokehead said:

For instance, from this website - https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2016/02/pros-and...

Air Source Heat Pumps Disadvantages

The main air source heat pumps disadvantages associated with air source heat pumps are listed below:

This type of Air Source heating lowers heat supply compared to oil and gas boilers, so larger radiators would be needed
They perform better with underfloor heating or warm air heating and work more efficiently when coupled with larger radiators
Air source heat pumps are not the best option if you live on gas mains
They need electricity to be powered if there is no access to solar energy or wind power
You would need a highly insulated home to reap the high energy savings benefits
Noisy like an air conditioner when it is running
Less efficient in winter due to low Coefficient of Performance (COP) levels

but the whole point of pushing it into new builds is that, if you build the house properly, you don't need the output of a gas powered central heating system so most of those problems are not real problems anymore. Sure if you build a standard crap uk house and want it at 25degC in the middle of winter then maybe an air source heat pump is not going to hack it.

I've also been wondering about the "I cannot have ground source heat pump because I have no garden" arguement. Why cannot we use bore holes under the house (ie within the footprint of the house). new builds only obviously. Genuinely interested as I have not heard it mentioned as a option.

[Sa Calobra]

Standing charge is going up all the time. It's a stealth price rise for gas/energy companies.

By 2025 no one will be able to afford to even turn the heating on with 1-2k+ standing charges a year.

I was thinking the other day where can I find a wind domestic turbine to generate power at home?

[Nickgnome]

Smokehead said:

Nickgnome said:

Smokehead said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that Air Source Heat Pumps cost more to run than a modern natural gas combi boiler. Does this mean gas prices being inflated to make the Air Pump cheaper to run?

if you have the evidence it is usual practice to post it, otherwise it is an unsubstantiated claim.

For instance, from this website - https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2016/02/pros-and...

Air Source Heat Pumps Disadvantages

The main air source heat pumps disadvantages associated with air source heat pumps are listed below:

This type of Air Source heating lowers heat supply compared to oil and gas boilers, so larger radiators would be needed
They perform better with underfloor heating or warm air heating and work more efficiently when coupled with larger radiators
Air source heat pumps are not the best option if you live on gas mains
They need electricity to be powered if there is no access to solar energy or wind power
You would need a highly insulated home to reap the high energy savings benefits
Noisy like an air conditioner when it is running
Less efficient in winter due to low Coefficient of Performance (COP) levels

There is a flaw here. New developments have no gas supply.

Why would you want radiators in a house they are horrid things.

I will however look at the link later.

If new houses are built correctly they need very little no heating at all, so the boiler is for hot water only.

[ooo000ooo]

Nickgnome said:

I think simplifying energy distribution nationwide has to be a good thing. Car forum peeps should be over the moon that roads will not need to be excavated so often.

We are converts now to the Induction hob as its far superior to the previous gas one.

Do any boilers use induction yet?

[Nickgnome]

brman said:

Smokehead said:

For instance, from this website - https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2016/02/pros-and...

Air Source Heat Pumps Disadvantages

The main air source heat pumps disadvantages associated with air source heat pumps are listed below:

This type of Air Source heating lowers heat supply compared to oil and gas boilers, so larger radiators would be needed
They perform better with underfloor heating or warm air heating and work more efficiently when coupled with larger radiators
Air source heat pumps are not the best option if you live on gas mains
They need electricity to be powered if there is no access to solar energy or wind power
You would need a highly insulated home to reap the high energy savings benefits
Noisy like an air conditioner when it is running
Less efficient in winter due to low Coefficient of Performance (COP) levels

but the whole point of pushing it into new builds is that, if you build the house properly, you don't need the output of a gas powered central heating system so most of those problems are not real problems anymore. Sure if you build a standard crap uk house and want it at 25degC in the middle of winter then maybe an air source heat pump is not going to hack it.

I've also been wondering about the "I cannot have ground source heat pump because I have no garden" arguement. Why cannot we use bore holes under the house (ie within the footprint of the house). new builds only obviously. Genuinely interested as I have not heard it mentioned as a option.

You can use boreholes. I investigated it for our house. In the end went with a flat roof and an airtight, well insulated design.

It’s 23deg in our living room with no heating on today just from solar gain and it’s been cloudy most of the day.

Solar panels will be installed shortly.

[Nickgnome]

Sa Calobra said:

Standing charge is going up all the time. It's a stealth price rise for gas/energy companies.

By 2025 no one will be able to afford to even turn the heating on with 1-2k+ standing charges a year.

I was thinking the other day where can I find a wind domestic turbine to generate power at home?

There are plenty about but not really viable unless you live in an expos3d location and even then the payback is not very good. PVs are better.

Your house must be very well insulated and airtight so that should always be wher3 your expenditure goes first.

[Nickgnome]

ooo000ooo said:

Nickgnome said:

I think simplifying energy distribution nationwide has to be a good thing. Car forum peeps should be over the moon that roads will not need to be excavated so often.

We are converts now to the Induction hob as its far superior to the previous gas one.

Do any boilers use induction yet?

What.

Do you know how an induction hob works?

[Gary C]

foxbody-87 said:

electric is expensive (and usually generated using coal anyway). .

Your a bit out of date.

[cptsideways]

caziques said:

I install underfloor heating in NZ,exclusively with air sourced hot water heat pumps.

Gas central heating is almost unknown and central heating itself is very rare.

If piped gas is available, the standing charges make it expensive - bottled gas isn't much cheaper than electricity.

To be effective an air sourced hot water heat pump needs thermal mass to store energy, if a house design incorporates say a 100mm concrete floor slab, such a system would be better than CO2 producing gas boilers in every house.

Heat pumps are not a simple replacement for a gas boiler(and radiators). Hopefully "heating engineers" won't be involved too much, frequently they know sweet bugger all about how to use heat pumps for cost effective central heating.

We need to chat!

I'm looking at buying a place in Scotland with wet UFH heated by electric. I would be very keen to hear the alternatives that could be an easy retrofit.

[Evanivitch]

Sa Calobra said:

.
I was thinking the other day where can I find a wind domestic turbine to generate power at home?

Location and scale make them completely impractical unless you have significant land.

[anonymous-user]

Lord Marylebone said:

....
I believe the future lies in individual properties taking far more responsibility for their own electricity needs (solar) yet still being connected to a central power grid.
...

A friend of mine runs an electrical utility provider in the Caribbean. As people are switching or supplementing with solar they have found their income drop but their biggest cost; building and maintaining the physical infrastructure to provide peak power requirement unchanged so they are looking at switching from paying for power to paying a fixed fee based on your maximum draw. (In simple terms someone has to pay for the power station and infrastructure sat idle until it's cloudy!) The fuel cost is only a fraction of the total cost so if everyone switches to solar they'll find their connection to the grid that they're not using costs them a sizable proportion of their current bill!

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 14th March 18:23

[Jasandjules]

BlackLabel said:

Gas boilers will be replaced by low-carbon heating systems in all new homes built after 2025 in an attempt to tackle the escalating climate crisis, Philip Hammond has said. In his spring statement, the chancellor said new properties would use alternative systems, such as heat pumps, to help the UK reduce its carbon emissions.

I wonder if Mr Hammond has recently been paid by some companies and/or will shortly be engaged by certain companies........