How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)

How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)

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B'stard Child

28,320 posts

245 months

Thursday 18th April 2019
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Troubleatmill said:
Helicopter123 said:
I repeat, in case you are having some trouble understanding, Faisal has asked me not to post his personal number online, in full or in part.
I'm sure Faisal would have no problem with you posting up a selfie with the pair of you - and a tin of custard.


I expect you to come back with a busted flush... (again)
He hasn't told me I can't post his number on line either in full or in part so I'll start with a 7

Crackie

6,386 posts

241 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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Helicopter123 said:
MPs will be paying attention.
They've had their fingers in their ears for 3 years, what makes you think they'll start paying attention now?


Edited by Crackie on Friday 19th April 00:16

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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ClaphamGT3 said:
Id like to agree but I don’t think this one will fade away that quickly; we have transcended the “a week is a long time in politics” rule. I suspect we are in for generational resentment on the EU issue, made worse when Brexiteers - or many of them - realise that leaving the EU is not a solution to their frustrations with the political establishment and the old chestnut that “whoever you vote for, the Government gets in” still holds true
IF we leave !!! if not I think this will be a cancer that will eat us ,
still smug though old chap , we didn't know what we were voting for etc Eh !!! oh well onward and upward ,,
Sorting this out is entirely in the gift of the tory party leave on no deal and it's the peoples fault if it goes wrong!!
water it down with May's treaty or stay in and it will be the death of the tory party, reset the resentment or we will have a Corbyn gov , Maybe you could ask Tarzan to stab May in the back like he did with Mrs T !! we need to see the back of that toxic bh before it's too late looks like 5 mins to midnight from where I am ...



Edited by powerstroke on Friday 19th April 00:27

wisbech

2,939 posts

120 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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TeamD said:
Toaster said:
Some in the UK couldn't give a stuff about where a trading border would have to go in the event we had a hard Brexit. So it is good to see others such as the US do not want to see a hard border between the north and south either
Wtf has is got to do with the US?
A US senator was the main facilitator/ go between in the talks, so they feel some ownership. Plus the Irish vote/ lobby is rather important in US

Squiddly Diddly

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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B'stard Child said:
I've been banned for saying "foxtrot oscar" - seriously how easily offended do you have to be to press the report button for that.......

On the other side of the coin I've been called a on several occasions and I've not pressed the report button

I have pressed the report button many times when duplicate threads have been started or threads have been posted in the wrong section because that's far more important
Snowflakes everywhere.

The way of the world these days, best get used to it.

slow_poke

1,855 posts

233 months

Friday 19th April 2019
quotequote all
wisbech said:
TeamD said:
Toaster said:
Some in the UK couldn't give a stuff about where a trading border would have to go in the event we had a hard Brexit. So it is good to see others such as the US do not want to see a hard border between the north and south either
Wtf has is got to do with the US?
A US senator was the main facilitator/ go between in the talks, so they feel some ownership. Plus the Irish vote/ lobby is rather important in US
Yeah. The Septics see the GFA as a massive international diplomacy win for them. They're very proud of their involvement in bringing it about and no doubt blow that horn mightily loud internationally to distract from Iraq, middle East and all that since.

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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S1KRR said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Id like to agree but I don’t think this one will fade away that quickly; we have transcended the “a week is a long time in politics” rule. I suspect we are in for generational resentment on the EU issue, made worse when Brexiteers - or many of them - realise that leaving the EU is not a solution to their frustrations with the political establishment and the old chestnut that “whoever you vote for, the Government gets in” still holds true
Cant speak for others

My vote to leave was never based on frustrations with National government. Only well known and long established frustrations with the EU.

A good idea run incredibly badly and to the detriment of millions.
Quite agree. The frustration was being in an organisation that I never wanted to be in, nothing to do with our government of the day.

smifffymoto

4,527 posts

204 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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I don’t know about you lot but I would give my left hand to see Faisal have a Jason Plato moment on here and denounce Helicopter123. With a bit of luck he might pipe down after that.

rigga

8,727 posts

200 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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I doubt even that would shut chopper up ......

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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smifffymoto said:
I don’t know about you lot but I would give my left hand to see Faisal have a Jason Plato moment on here and denounce Helicopter123. With a bit of luck he might pipe down after that.
Unfortunately there's always the other Twin that's recently returned to plague us.

rolleyes

psi310398

9,036 posts

202 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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wisbech said:
A US senator was the main facilitator/ go between in the talks, so they feel some ownership. Plus the Irish vote/ lobby is rather important in US
Yes, it appears easy to forget how that lobby ensured that the US authorities turned a blind eye to open IRA fund-raising in the US for years until the Americans got a taste of terrorism themselves.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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The EU has commissioned a halo for Treaty May for stopping the UK from leaving.


Piha

7,150 posts

91 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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psi310398 said:
wisbech said:
A US senator was the main facilitator/ go between in the talks, so they feel some ownership. Plus the Irish vote/ lobby is rather important in US
Yes, it appears easy to forget how that lobby ensured that the US authorities turned a blind eye to open IRA fund-raising in the US for years until the Americans got a taste of terrorism themselves.
Is it a price worth paying isn't it?

Don't forget the wonderful US trade deal that our Bojo'esque politicians said would benefit us all so very much. And let's not forget that the US needs us more than the UK needs the US?

The murder of a journalist Lyra McKee in Derry/Londonderry last night demonstrates how toxic the UK political could become. My thoughts are with Lyra's loved ones this morning.

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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Ridgemont said:
Helicopter123 said:
ClaphamGT3 said:


A disturbing one. Even taking this at face value (never wise with a poll) it suggests that we are no closer to a meaningful national consensus on Brexit and, without very effective political leadership, we are set to remain a divided nation for some time to come
Strong move towards remain.

MPs will be paying attention.

Wonderful.
I’ve credited you before because you have correctly called the current situation: that Parliament would stuff the Brexit options. I am intrigued how your all seeing eye takes this nugget. Do you really see an eventual move to a 2nd referendum with a revoke option.
As a follow up I’d love to know what you think the impact to belief in a democratic process will be.
My starting point is that democratic power on Brexit sits with the HoC

The house has a strong remain bias, but many MPs are fence sitting in effect, until they can be certain which way the wind is blowing. While reluctant to support leave, any indication of a shift towards remain in the public is quickly matched by behaviour in the commons.

We saw this recently when the revoke A50 petition attracted 6m signatures and made news headlines. Revoking A50 went from being a pariah in the HoC to getting 180 or so supporters in an indicative vote. It also made a 2nd confirmatory referendum mainstream. Note the language as well - it is confirming the selected Brexit outcome against the status quo. I see this poll very much as part of this context.

For me, revoking A50 outright would be democratically challenging and while some would welcome this, I don't think it would do any good in bringing the country back together again.

If we can find a consensus option that can unite enough 'soft leavers' and 'soft remainers', and win public support in a referendum then I think that is a positive outcome for democracy, achieved in very difficult circumstances. If the same option is rejected in a second vote, then we are probably back to square 1. In the EU, but not fully committed, UKIP/Brexit party polling 15-20% and we muddle on.

I cannot see any chain of events being allowed to unfold where 'no deal' happens as parliament simply will not permit it. The house, like the DUP, are above all Unionists with a few notable exceptions. Possibly a GE if Farage can make the breakthrough and win enough seats to prop up a Tory government although that is going to be tough with a FPTP electoral system? Realistically though, I can't see that as Labour Vote holding up much better around a soft brexit option/possible 2nd ref.


Edited by Helicopter123 on Friday 19th April 09:04

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Friday 19th April 2019
quotequote all
Both parties stood on a manifesto of Leave.

There is no such thing as “extreme leaving”.
It is just leaving.

I don’t really like the analogies I have seen on Brexit And this one is probably no better.

But when you told your folks you are leaving the family home- living in the attached double garage doesn’t count.

The Remainers (just a timely reminder lost the referendum) want to keep us on the family property by any means possible.

It would be easier to just leave.
Let the UK/EU then negotiate what kind of future relation they want.

Almost all Remainers were very clear that Leave means leaving the single market and customs union.

I agree.

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Friday 19th April 2019
quotequote all
B'stard Child said:
I've been banned for saying "foxtrot oscar" - seriously how easily offended do you have to be to press the report button for that.......

On the other side of the coin I've been called a on several occasions and I've not pressed the report button

I have pressed the report button many times when duplicate threads have been started or threads have been posted in the wrong section because that's far more important
I've been banned once and was never told why? not even an email telling what rule I had broken.

I pressed the red button once on one of the house Trolls and announced I would do so.

I wouldn't want a Mods job for all the tea in China biggrin


alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Friday 19th April 2019
quotequote all
Robertj21a said:
Unfortunately there's always the other Twin that's recently returned to plague us.

rolleyes
You noticed too rolleyes

Garvin

5,156 posts

176 months

Friday 19th April 2019
quotequote all
ClaphamGT3 said:
S1KRR said:
I think its only because its on the news daily. Its constantly re-opening the scabs.

When we leave. Give it 12-18 months, people will adapt and politics will take more of a back seat in everyone's consciousness.
Id like to agree but I don’t think this one will fade away that quickly; we have transcended the “a week is a long time in politics” rule. I suspect we are in for generational resentment on the EU issue, made worse when Brexiteers - or many of them - realise that leaving the EU is not a solution to their frustrations with the political establishment and the old chestnut that “whoever you vote for, the Government gets in” still holds true
That can be turned the other way when the ‘youngsters’ realise that not a lot has changed being outside the EU - the ‘generational resentment’ will leak away. Those that want free of EU ‘interference’ will be content. There is a point about those that voted to leave because they view their current lot to be a bit crap - if nothing changes then their ire will be turned on domestic government and that, I believe, will be a good thing.

chrispmartha

15,360 posts

128 months

Friday 19th April 2019
quotequote all
Robertj21a said:
S1KRR said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Id like to agree but I don’t think this one will fade away that quickly; we have transcended the “a week is a long time in politics” rule. I suspect we are in for generational resentment on the EU issue, made worse when Brexiteers - or many of them - realise that leaving the EU is not a solution to their frustrations with the political establishment and the old chestnut that “whoever you vote for, the Government gets in” still holds true
Cant speak for others

My vote to leave was never based on frustrations with National government. Only well known and long established frustrations with the EU.

A good idea run incredibly badly and to the detriment of millions.
Quite agree. The frustration was being in an organisation that I never wanted to be in, nothing to do with our government of the day.
Which is a fair reason for you to want to leave and it’s probably why the younger generation voted overwhelmingly to stay, they have grown up with the country being a part of the EU and (rightly or wrongly) don’t what they see as the benefits taken away from them, I would take a guess that many of the younger generation see themselves as European as well as British (even at 40 that’s how I see myself) and again rightly or wrongly will feel that leaving the EU is taking some of their Identity away just as some of the older generation think their identity is being taken away by being in the EU.

Personally I just wish more of the Younger generation had have gotten if their backsides and voted as I think it would have swung the vote the other way, but cest las vie.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Friday 19th April 2019
quotequote all
ClaphamGT3 said:
Id like to agree but I don’t think this one will fade away that quickly; we have transcended the “a week is a long time in politics” rule. I suspect we are in for generational resentment on the EU issue, made worse when Brexiteers - or many of them - realise that leaving the EU is not a solution to their frustrations with the political establishment and the old chestnut that “whoever you vote for, the Government gets in” still holds true
No resentment at all from dinner-table Remainers who will continue to refer to 'Brexiteers' and blame every small shift to the negative on being out of the EU? The memes I see on social media suggest that some are determined to keep the candle burning for the EU regardless of what happens in the UK.

Our society seems to accumulate groups that 'will never forget' some sleight that has long stopped actually affecting their lives, but still dominates their politics. How far should we pander to them?
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