What is “Politics of envy”?
Discussion
Guybrush said:
Envy and resentment politics is much of Labour's output (the left and especially the far left), whereby they highlight a group of people, but won't usually be specific, eg. "the rich" so as to engender envious thoughts of anyone who has more than me; to 'solve' it, they need dragging down to my level and Labour will promise to do that. However, instead of envy politics, the opposite is to strive to bring people up by lowering taxes and creating opportunities (traditionally the Conservative way), rather than dragging down the successful. So, envy politics is seeking to drag people down.
On the right, envy/ resentment politics is usually ‘benefit scroungers’ - I.e. how dare someone else get money that I don’t think they deserve, or I don’t get myself. Not that different to resenting Duke of Westminster Edited by wisbech on Thursday 25th April 23:56
ellroy said:
If it’s not envy why would you give a flying f
k what someone else inherited?
I'm going to bite...k what someone else inherited?Can someone explain to me the difference between "dole dossers'" perceived lack of work ethic and/or sense of entitlement in terms of the state looking after them and then the same for those who inherit a fortune and live off it with no effort? Why is it OK for some people to live off the work of someone else but not other people?
PS I'm not advocating higher marginal rates for higher earners. If I was in charge I'd start with getting big corporations to pay their fair share but I would also look at wealth redistribution too.
Edited by northwick on Thursday 25th April 23:41
northwick said:
I'm going to bite...
Can someone explain to me the difference between "dole dossers'" perceived lack of work ethic and/or sense of entitlement in terms of the state looking after them and then the same for those who inherit a fortune and live off it with no effort? Why is it OK for some people to live off the work of someone else but not other people?
PS I'm not advocating higher marginal rates for higher earners. If I was in charge I'd start with getting big corporations to pay their fair share but I would also look at wealth redistribution too.
Precisely. Surely true capitalists would have 100% inheritance tax, no private education, put as much effort in as possible so that everyone had exactly the same opportunities? Then the hardest working and brightest will succeed and become wealthy and the lazy feckless and unfortunate will not.Can someone explain to me the difference between "dole dossers'" perceived lack of work ethic and/or sense of entitlement in terms of the state looking after them and then the same for those who inherit a fortune and live off it with no effort? Why is it OK for some people to live off the work of someone else but not other people?
PS I'm not advocating higher marginal rates for higher earners. If I was in charge I'd start with getting big corporations to pay their fair share but I would also look at wealth redistribution too.
Edited by northwick on Thursday 25th April 23:41
Integroo said:
Precisely. Surely true capitalists would have 100% inheritance tax, no private education, put as much effort in as possible so that everyone had exactly the same opportunities? Then the hardest working and brightest will succeed and become wealthy and the lazy feckless and unfortunate will not.
True capitalists would not favour being dictated to as to what they can and cannot do with their money. northwick said:
ellroy said:
If it’s not envy why would you give a flying fk what someone else inherited?
I'm going to bite...k what someone else inherited?Can someone explain to me the difference between "dole dossers'" perceived lack of work ethic and/or sense of entitlement in terms of the state looking after them and then the same for those who inherit a fortune and live off it with no effort? Why is it OK for some people to live off the work of someone else but not other people?
PS I'm not advocating higher marginal rates for higher earners. If I was in charge I'd start with getting big corporations to pay their fair share but I would also look at wealth redistribution too.
Edited by northwick on Thursday 25th April 23:41
PorkRind said:
northwick said:
ellroy said:
If it’s not envy why would you give a flying fk what someone else inherited?
I'm going to bite...k what someone else inherited?Can someone explain to me the difference between "dole dossers'" perceived lack of work ethic and/or sense of entitlement in terms of the state looking after them and then the same for those who inherit a fortune and live off it with no effort? Why is it OK for some people to live off the work of someone else but not other people?
PS I'm not advocating higher marginal rates for higher earners. If I was in charge I'd start with getting big corporations to pay their fair share but I would also look at wealth redistribution too.
Edited by northwick on Thursday 25th April 23:41
Also inheritance is elective, the family could easily leave it all to the local dogs home.
popegregory said:
So is it supposed to be used to dismiss the case of someone with no viable policy idea other than “take things off those with more than me”. Because coming back to the earlier idea of the Duke of Westminster; when you hear it used as a pejorative phrase by the multi-million pound trust fund brigade to dismiss people questioning seemingly entrenched inequality, it starts to lose effectiveness in my eyes.
Resentement politics, or plain irritation, would be to want to stop the Duke from getting so much without paying a penny in tax.The left would use that emotion in people to increase inheritance taxes (closing loopholes) for everyone else which they say would be fair.
However, no matter how long the left have been in power, they have never closed loopholes for the very wealthy, all they have ever done is keep the less well off in their place with ever higher inheritance taxes. (Corbyn's Labour is almost certainly to want to increase inheritance tax.) In fact, the left whined very loudly when the Conservatives suggested greatly raising the inheritance tax threshold a few years ago, so we now only have the current more complex watered down version. The Centre, Right of Centre way of doing things should be to react to The Duke's interhtaince tax avoidance by saying, "OK, let's make it fair to all and remove inhertiance tax altogether", but sadly this current givernment is trying to please the left a bit too much lately and seems reluctant to reduce this clearly unfair tax on already taxed money.
Integroo said:
Precisely. Surely true capitalists would have 100% inheritance tax, no private education, put as much effort in as possible so that everyone had exactly the same opportunities? Then the hardest working and brightest will succeed and become wealthy and the lazy feckless and unfortunate will not.
Capitalism is the notion that people (not just the government) can own stuff because that ends up making everyone better off than they would be otherwise. No reason to support 100% inheritance tax, ultimately an argument for 100% private education rather than zero.northwick said:
ellroy said:
If it’s not envy why would you give a flying fk what someone else inherited?
I'm going to bite...k what someone else inherited?Can someone explain to me the difference between "dole dossers'" perceived lack of work ethic and/or sense of entitlement in terms of the state looking after them and then the same for those who inherit a fortune and live off it with no effort? Why is it OK for some people to live off the work of someone else but not other people?
PS I'm not advocating higher marginal rates for higher earners. If I was in charge I'd start with getting big corporations to pay their fair share but I would also look at wealth redistribution too.
Edited by northwick on Thursday 25th April 23:41
Guybrush said:
northwick said:
ellroy said:
If it’s not envy why would you give a flying fk what someone else inherited?
I'm going to bite...k what someone else inherited?Can someone explain to me the difference between "dole dossers'" perceived lack of work ethic and/or sense of entitlement in terms of the state looking after them and then the same for those who inherit a fortune and live off it with no effort? Why is it OK for some people to live off the work of someone else but not other people?
PS I'm not advocating higher marginal rates for higher earners. If I was in charge I'd start with getting big corporations to pay their fair share but I would also look at wealth redistribution too.
Edited by northwick on Thursday 25th April 23:41
fouronthefloor said:
Guybrush said:
northwick said:
ellroy said:
If it’s not envy why would you give a flying fk what someone else inherited?
I'm going to bite...k what someone else inherited?Can someone explain to me the difference between "dole dossers'" perceived lack of work ethic and/or sense of entitlement in terms of the state looking after them and then the same for those who inherit a fortune and live off it with no effort? Why is it OK for some people to live off the work of someone else but not other people?
PS I'm not advocating higher marginal rates for higher earners. If I was in charge I'd start with getting big corporations to pay their fair share but I would also look at wealth redistribution too.
Edited by northwick on Thursday 25th April 23:41
fouronthefloor said:
Yes , but we all live on this earth and should be equally entitled within reason.
How is anyone but me 'entitled' to the money I've earned? The difference between choosing to give some of my money to someone else either now or as a bequest, and the HMRC demanding I give that person my money or get prosecuted is pretty clear.Dr Jekyll said:
fouronthefloor said:
Yes , but we all live on this earth and should be equally entitled within reason.
How is anyone but me 'entitled' to the money I've earned? The difference between choosing to give some of my money to someone else either now or as a bequest, and the HMRC demanding I give that person my money or get prosecuted is pretty clear.fouronthefloor said:
Yes , but we all live on this earth and should be equally entitled within reason.
the problem is what but a tyranny can implement your equality?OP look up "zero sum thinking", the idea that anothers loss is automatically your gain, it's a corrosive mindset the permeates deeper than economics.
Teddy Lop said:
the problem is what but a tyranny can implement your equality?
There is no solution. I guess it's human nature. It's interesting to see how people feel as though they're 'entitled' when everyone is born and everyone dies.
Everyone is equal until money comes into the equation.
Integroo said:
cymatty said:
The evidence that a 50p tax rate wouldn't increase tax take.fouronthefloor said:
Dr Jekyll said:
fouronthefloor said:
Yes , but we all live on this earth and should be equally entitled within reason.
How is anyone but me 'entitled' to the money I've earned? The difference between choosing to give some of my money to someone else either now or as a bequest, and the HMRC demanding I give that person my money or get prosecuted is pretty clear.Integroo said:
Precisely. Surely true capitalists would have 100% inheritance tax, no private education, put as much effort in as possible so that everyone had exactly the same opportunities? Then the hardest working and brightest will succeed and become wealthy and the lazy feckless and unfortunate will not.
Such a common viewpoint on this forum, if you 'succeed' you must be hard working and bright, and if you're not at the top of the tree you must be lazy, feckless or 'unfortunate' (what ever that means!).Guybrush said:
fouronthefloor said:
Dr Jekyll said:
fouronthefloor said:
Yes , but we all live on this earth and should be equally entitled within reason.
How is anyone but me 'entitled' to the money I've earned? The difference between choosing to give some of my money to someone else either now or as a bequest, and the HMRC demanding I give that person my money or get prosecuted is pretty clear.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff