British Steel on the brink of adminstration.
Discussion
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
jhiker said:
Stumbled across this on Sky News. It beggars belief....
In the past two years (to be precise, the past 22 months) China has manufactured more steel than Britain has since the height of the Industrial Revolution in 1870.
In the months since the last general election China has produced more steel than Britain - the country where modern steel manufacturing was invented - has produced. Ever.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-surprising-facts-be...
Cheap disposable labor, no environmental concerns, cheap dirty power = We don't stand a chance.In the past two years (to be precise, the past 22 months) China has manufactured more steel than Britain has since the height of the Industrial Revolution in 1870.
In the months since the last general election China has produced more steel than Britain - the country where modern steel manufacturing was invented - has produced. Ever.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-surprising-facts-be...
KarlMac said:
Currently sat in the workshop at S
horpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all.
Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
That sucks and I feel for you - A friend of mine owns a hotel in Shorpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all. Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
horpe and he's concerned, which shows that it's also the surrounding businesses that will take a hit. I hope this is resolved positively for you and all at the steelworksBrooking10 said:
KarlMac said:
Currently sat in the workshop at Shorpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all.
Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
Good luck mate, really hope it works out.horpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all. Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
KarlMac said:
Currently sat in the workshop at Shorpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all.
Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
All the best to you and your colleagues, hope you get a positive result from this stressful time. From a fellow Steelworker of 21yrs. horpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all. Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
saaby93 said:
Is it better to ship in the finished product or manufacture it here?
Where should a steel works be based?
Ideally next to its own port. Port toilet was hampered by only being a strip mill so doesn’t count. Look at something like ijmuiden for how it can/should work in a high cost of production country. Where should a steel works be based?
I don’t think us westerners realise what life is like for some in Chinese industry.
2005 I was in a Cheng-Xi shipyard fixing a ship – as you do. The shipyard averaged a death a week. Just 4 days prior to me greeting there, the next dry dock along had a pipe lifting accident which killed 3 and seriously injured 1. 2 days after that, the ship I went to look at, had a fatality due to someone getting asphyxiated while welding up a hold, and another guy with serious respiratory problems after going in to rescue him. This really spooked the Russian crew on the vessel. It didn’t fill me with glee either.
All the shipyard did was carry the dead bodies to the gate on a phut-phut, and ring their families up to come and collect them. No HSE, no investigation, no yellow tape saying be aware etc…
Outside the factory gates the next day, was an even longer queue of people wanting to work…
As mentioned above, I don’t think most people realise just how big and serious the Chinese production machine is now. I think its total world domination, by whatever means are at their disposal. The view from the 747’s window leaving Shanghai airport beggars’ belief. If they want to take out a country’s steel production capacity, they do.
As for earlier comments about BS being a lame duck
In 1984, our production engineering lecturer was on a team looking at why 1 of their steel works was in a mess. One reason was that they had 2 fresh graduates looking after a production line and wrote off £7M (£23M today) worth of production. BS senior management were full of woe as to why they couldn’t get decent engineers to look after the production line. They were asked as to why 2 engineers, with less than 6 months experience between them, were left supervising such an important production line… there was no answer.
There’s reference to what Ford thought about them in this book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motor-Makers-Martin-Adene...
After being shown round a new production facility and telling the assembled throng, how good BS now were, a Ford purchaser asked loudly “why do you keep making so much st then?...
Motor cycle industry in general
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whatever-Happened-British...
Although Bert does congratulate himself a lot in this book. The meeting at BSA after news of a Honda CB750 being made is worthy of a wry smile….
British industries long held woes
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audit-War-Illusion-Realit...
A thoroughly disheartening read
But steel is a strategic product, and we are going to need high grade stuff in big quantities for whatever new energy source is decided upon. I sincerely hope it doesn’t go, but the money required to turn it round is eye-popping.
Traceability you say….
Every single industry I know of is almost chasing its tail keeping on top of its supplier chain. There are stories galore about this… Mind you when someone in purchasing decides to ignore the steel spec on the drawing and order 316 instead of 2507 duplex as “it’s a bit cheaper”, what hope is there?...
2005 I was in a Cheng-Xi shipyard fixing a ship – as you do. The shipyard averaged a death a week. Just 4 days prior to me greeting there, the next dry dock along had a pipe lifting accident which killed 3 and seriously injured 1. 2 days after that, the ship I went to look at, had a fatality due to someone getting asphyxiated while welding up a hold, and another guy with serious respiratory problems after going in to rescue him. This really spooked the Russian crew on the vessel. It didn’t fill me with glee either.
All the shipyard did was carry the dead bodies to the gate on a phut-phut, and ring their families up to come and collect them. No HSE, no investigation, no yellow tape saying be aware etc…
Outside the factory gates the next day, was an even longer queue of people wanting to work…
As mentioned above, I don’t think most people realise just how big and serious the Chinese production machine is now. I think its total world domination, by whatever means are at their disposal. The view from the 747’s window leaving Shanghai airport beggars’ belief. If they want to take out a country’s steel production capacity, they do.
As for earlier comments about BS being a lame duck
In 1984, our production engineering lecturer was on a team looking at why 1 of their steel works was in a mess. One reason was that they had 2 fresh graduates looking after a production line and wrote off £7M (£23M today) worth of production. BS senior management were full of woe as to why they couldn’t get decent engineers to look after the production line. They were asked as to why 2 engineers, with less than 6 months experience between them, were left supervising such an important production line… there was no answer.
There’s reference to what Ford thought about them in this book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motor-Makers-Martin-Adene...
After being shown round a new production facility and telling the assembled throng, how good BS now were, a Ford purchaser asked loudly “why do you keep making so much s
t then?...Motor cycle industry in general
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whatever-Happened-British...
Although Bert does congratulate himself a lot in this book. The meeting at BSA after news of a Honda CB750 being made is worthy of a wry smile….
British industries long held woes
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audit-War-Illusion-Realit...
A thoroughly disheartening read
But steel is a strategic product, and we are going to need high grade stuff in big quantities for whatever new energy source is decided upon. I sincerely hope it doesn’t go, but the money required to turn it round is eye-popping.
Traceability you say….
Every single industry I know of is almost chasing its tail keeping on top of its supplier chain. There are stories galore about this… Mind you when someone in purchasing decides to ignore the steel spec on the drawing and order 316 instead of 2507 duplex as “it’s a bit cheaper”, what hope is there?...
kurt535 said:
Troubleatmill said:
Dromedary66 said:
Helicopter123 said:
Shorpe voted 66.3% leave but I'm sure that everyone knew exactly what they were voting for so nothing to see here.
"In April, British Steel borrowed £100m from the government to enable it to pay an EU carbon bill, so it could avoid a steep fine"horpe voted 66.3% leave but I'm sure that everyone knew exactly what they were voting for so nothing to see here.Typical Remoaner blaming Brexit for everything while completely missing the point that the EU has contributed to the situation British Steel are in.
You are pathetic.
You haven’t seen his OAP deathwatch posts??
They stand him out from the crowd. And not in a good way.
[quote=Alan Tovey
Polluting companies have to “pay” for each ton of emissions with a permit. If they reduce their emissions and have more permits than needed they can auction them.
British Steel sold off some permits to create working capital but then found itself squeezed as the EU halted permit issuance to UK companies until a Brexit deal is finalised.
British Steel was caught out in what one called a “badly timed bet” as permits surged in price once UK allocations were suspended.
As a result, it had to seek a £120m government loan for new permits or face a massive cash crunch.
Justifying the decision to do a deal on to fund new carbon permits, Business Secretary Greg Clark said that the business “would have attracted an immediate and unremovable fine of £500m, on top of the continuing liability of about £120m, putting the company under significant financial strain”.
BBC report:
Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out
How is it that the banks are bailed out but not a steel maker? Am I missing something?
Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out
How is it that the banks are bailed out but not a steel maker? Am I missing something?
Biker 1 said:
BBC report:
Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out
How is it that the banks are bailed out but not a steel maker? Am I missing something?
Failing banks would have taken a number of other large businesses with them and created an economic crisis, a steel company won't. Mechanisms were used that 'bent' the rules slightly, or at least skated close to bending them.Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out
How is it that the banks are bailed out but not a steel maker? Am I missing something?
Not that it isn't short-termism to allow British Steel to fail at a time when security of supply is a wise idea. And the involvement of Greybull (also presided over the failure of Comet and Monarch Airlines) shouldn't be ignored.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
jhiker said:
Stumbled across this on Sky News. It beggars belief....
In the past two years (to be precise, the past 22 months) China has manufactured more steel than Britain has since the height of the Industrial Revolution in 1870.
In the months since the last general election China has produced more steel than Britain - the country where modern steel manufacturing was invented - has produced. Ever.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-surprising-facts-be...
Cheap disposable labor, no environmental concerns, cheap dirty power = We don't stand a chance.In the past two years (to be precise, the past 22 months) China has manufactured more steel than Britain has since the height of the Industrial Revolution in 1870.
In the months since the last general election China has produced more steel than Britain - the country where modern steel manufacturing was invented - has produced. Ever.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-surprising-facts-be...
A mate of mine was selling construction cranes in to China, after a year or two they were copying them and his business dried up completely.
Meanwhile farmers here are about to get hit because cows fart methane which is going to kill the planet.
It's ludicrous - but it's winning votes.
FiF said:
Brooking10 said:
KarlMac said:
Currently sat in the workshop at Shorpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all.
Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
Good luck mate, really hope it works out.horpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all. Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
JustALooseScrew said:
FiF said:
Brooking10 said:
KarlMac said:
Currently sat in the workshop at Shorpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all.
Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
Good luck mate, really hope it works out.horpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all. Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
And in a part of the country that can't take much more of a battering.
Biker 1 said:
BBC report:
Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out
How is it that the banks are bailed out but not a steel maker? Am I missing something?
Last scene of the cracking film 'The Big Short' covers that subject...Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out
How is it that the banks are bailed out but not a steel maker? Am I missing something?
Biker 1 said:
JustALooseScrew said:
FiF said:
Brooking10 said:
KarlMac said:
Currently sat in the workshop at Shorpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all.
Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
Good luck mate, really hope it works out.horpe, waiting to hear something official. Day to day activities continue and there’s a profitable business underneath it all. Looks like Greybull’s pockets are empty and they’ve taken all the value they can.
Quietly confident another buyer will be along, there’s some good customers and products here but it will be interesting to see what the business looks like in the future
And in a part of the country that can't take much more of a battering.
bucksmanuk said:
I don’t think us westerners realise what life is like for some in Chinese industry.
2005 I was in a Cheng-Xi shipyard fixing a ship – as you do. The shipyard averaged a death a week. Just 4 days prior to me greeting there, the next dry dock along had a pipe lifting accident which killed 3 and seriously injured 1. 2 days after that, the ship I went to look at, had a fatality due to someone getting asphyxiated while welding up a hold, and another guy with serious respiratory problems after going in to rescue him. This really spooked the Russian crew on the vessel. It didn’t fill me with glee either.
All the shipyard did was carry the dead bodies to the gate on a phut-phut, and ring their families up to come and collect them. No HSE, no investigation, no yellow tape saying be aware etc…
Outside the factory gates the next day, was an even longer queue of people wanting to work…
As mentioned above, I don’t think most people realise just how big and serious the Chinese production machine is now. I think its total world domination, by whatever means are at their disposal. The view from the 747’s window leaving Shanghai airport beggars’ belief. If they want to take out a country’s steel production capacity, they do.
As for earlier comments about BS being a lame duck
In 1984, our production engineering lecturer was on a team looking at why 1 of their steel works was in a mess. One reason was that they had 2 fresh graduates looking after a production line and wrote off £7M (£23M today) worth of production. BS senior management were full of woe as to why they couldn’t get decent engineers to look after the production line. They were asked as to why 2 engineers, with less than 6 months experience between them, were left supervising such an important production line… there was no answer.
There’s reference to what Ford thought about them in this book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motor-Makers-Martin-Adene...
After being shown round a new production facility and telling the assembled throng, how good BS now were, a Ford purchaser asked loudly “why do you keep making so much st then?...
Motor cycle industry in general
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whatever-Happened-British...
Although Bert does congratulate himself a lot in this book. The meeting at BSA after news of a Honda CB750 being made is worthy of a wry smile….
British industries long held woes
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audit-War-Illusion-Realit...
A thoroughly disheartening read
But steel is a strategic product, and we are going to need high grade stuff in big quantities for whatever new energy source is decided upon. I sincerely hope it doesn’t go, but the money required to turn it round is eye-popping.
Traceability you say….
Every single industry I know of is almost chasing its tail keeping on top of its supplier chain. There are stories galore about this… Mind you when someone in purchasing decides to ignore the steel spec on the drawing and order 316 instead of 2507 duplex as “it’s a bit cheaper”, what hope is there?...
Accountants rule nowadays. Do you have any experience of Chinese rebar problems. 2005 I was in a Cheng-Xi shipyard fixing a ship – as you do. The shipyard averaged a death a week. Just 4 days prior to me greeting there, the next dry dock along had a pipe lifting accident which killed 3 and seriously injured 1. 2 days after that, the ship I went to look at, had a fatality due to someone getting asphyxiated while welding up a hold, and another guy with serious respiratory problems after going in to rescue him. This really spooked the Russian crew on the vessel. It didn’t fill me with glee either.
All the shipyard did was carry the dead bodies to the gate on a phut-phut, and ring their families up to come and collect them. No HSE, no investigation, no yellow tape saying be aware etc…
Outside the factory gates the next day, was an even longer queue of people wanting to work…
As mentioned above, I don’t think most people realise just how big and serious the Chinese production machine is now. I think its total world domination, by whatever means are at their disposal. The view from the 747’s window leaving Shanghai airport beggars’ belief. If they want to take out a country’s steel production capacity, they do.
As for earlier comments about BS being a lame duck
In 1984, our production engineering lecturer was on a team looking at why 1 of their steel works was in a mess. One reason was that they had 2 fresh graduates looking after a production line and wrote off £7M (£23M today) worth of production. BS senior management were full of woe as to why they couldn’t get decent engineers to look after the production line. They were asked as to why 2 engineers, with less than 6 months experience between them, were left supervising such an important production line… there was no answer.
There’s reference to what Ford thought about them in this book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motor-Makers-Martin-Adene...
After being shown round a new production facility and telling the assembled throng, how good BS now were, a Ford purchaser asked loudly “why do you keep making so much s
t then?...Motor cycle industry in general
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whatever-Happened-British...
Although Bert does congratulate himself a lot in this book. The meeting at BSA after news of a Honda CB750 being made is worthy of a wry smile….
British industries long held woes
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audit-War-Illusion-Realit...
A thoroughly disheartening read
But steel is a strategic product, and we are going to need high grade stuff in big quantities for whatever new energy source is decided upon. I sincerely hope it doesn’t go, but the money required to turn it round is eye-popping.
Traceability you say….
Every single industry I know of is almost chasing its tail keeping on top of its supplier chain. There are stories galore about this… Mind you when someone in purchasing decides to ignore the steel spec on the drawing and order 316 instead of 2507 duplex as “it’s a bit cheaper”, what hope is there?...
FourWheelDrift said:
Biker 1 said:
BBC report:
Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out?
Brexit. No more EU rules.Greg Clark on British Steel liquidation: "We will take every possible step... to ensure jobs are secured," says business secretary, but EU rules forbid government from bailing the company out?
Amazing how many hardcore capitalists are pushing for a nationalised industry here. Corbyn is asking for the same just so your heads can explode.
markcoznottz said:
bucksmanuk said:
I don’t think us westerners realise what life is like for some in Chinese industry.
2005 I was in a Cheng-Xi shipyard fixing a ship – as you do. The shipyard averaged a death a week. Just 4 days prior to me greeting there, the next dry dock along had a pipe lifting accident which killed 3 and seriously injured 1. 2 days after that, the ship I went to look at, had a fatality due to someone getting asphyxiated while welding up a hold, and another guy with serious respiratory problems after going in to rescue him. This really spooked the Russian crew on the vessel. It didn’t fill me with glee either.
All the shipyard did was carry the dead bodies to the gate on a phut-phut, and ring their families up to come and collect them. No HSE, no investigation, no yellow tape saying be aware etc…
Outside the factory gates the next day, was an even longer queue of people wanting to work…
As mentioned above, I don’t think most people realise just how big and serious the Chinese production machine is now. I think its total world domination, by whatever means are at their disposal. The view from the 747’s window leaving Shanghai airport beggars’ belief. If they want to take out a country’s steel production capacity, they do.
As for earlier comments about BS being a lame duck
In 1984, our production engineering lecturer was on a team looking at why 1 of their steel works was in a mess. One reason was that they had 2 fresh graduates looking after a production line and wrote off £7M (£23M today) worth of production. BS senior management were full of woe as to why they couldn’t get decent engineers to look after the production line. They were asked as to why 2 engineers, with less than 6 months experience between them, were left supervising such an important production line… there was no answer.
There’s reference to what Ford thought about them in this book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motor-Makers-Martin-Adene...
After being shown round a new production facility and telling the assembled throng, how good BS now were, a Ford purchaser asked loudly “why do you keep making so much st then?...
Motor cycle industry in general
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whatever-Happened-British...
Although Bert does congratulate himself a lot in this book. The meeting at BSA after news of a Honda CB750 being made is worthy of a wry smile….
British industries long held woes
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audit-War-Illusion-Realit...
A thoroughly disheartening read
But steel is a strategic product, and we are going to need high grade stuff in big quantities for whatever new energy source is decided upon. I sincerely hope it doesn’t go, but the money required to turn it round is eye-popping.
Traceability you say….
Every single industry I know of is almost chasing its tail keeping on top of its supplier chain. There are stories galore about this… Mind you when someone in purchasing decides to ignore the steel spec on the drawing and order 316 instead of 2507 duplex as “it’s a bit cheaper”, what hope is there?...
Accountants rule nowadays. Do you have any experience of Chinese rebar problems. 2005 I was in a Cheng-Xi shipyard fixing a ship – as you do. The shipyard averaged a death a week. Just 4 days prior to me greeting there, the next dry dock along had a pipe lifting accident which killed 3 and seriously injured 1. 2 days after that, the ship I went to look at, had a fatality due to someone getting asphyxiated while welding up a hold, and another guy with serious respiratory problems after going in to rescue him. This really spooked the Russian crew on the vessel. It didn’t fill me with glee either.
All the shipyard did was carry the dead bodies to the gate on a phut-phut, and ring their families up to come and collect them. No HSE, no investigation, no yellow tape saying be aware etc…
Outside the factory gates the next day, was an even longer queue of people wanting to work…
As mentioned above, I don’t think most people realise just how big and serious the Chinese production machine is now. I think its total world domination, by whatever means are at their disposal. The view from the 747’s window leaving Shanghai airport beggars’ belief. If they want to take out a country’s steel production capacity, they do.
As for earlier comments about BS being a lame duck
In 1984, our production engineering lecturer was on a team looking at why 1 of their steel works was in a mess. One reason was that they had 2 fresh graduates looking after a production line and wrote off £7M (£23M today) worth of production. BS senior management were full of woe as to why they couldn’t get decent engineers to look after the production line. They were asked as to why 2 engineers, with less than 6 months experience between them, were left supervising such an important production line… there was no answer.
There’s reference to what Ford thought about them in this book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motor-Makers-Martin-Adene...
After being shown round a new production facility and telling the assembled throng, how good BS now were, a Ford purchaser asked loudly “why do you keep making so much s
t then?...Motor cycle industry in general
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whatever-Happened-British...
Although Bert does congratulate himself a lot in this book. The meeting at BSA after news of a Honda CB750 being made is worthy of a wry smile….
British industries long held woes
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audit-War-Illusion-Realit...
A thoroughly disheartening read
But steel is a strategic product, and we are going to need high grade stuff in big quantities for whatever new energy source is decided upon. I sincerely hope it doesn’t go, but the money required to turn it round is eye-popping.
Traceability you say….
Every single industry I know of is almost chasing its tail keeping on top of its supplier chain. There are stories galore about this… Mind you when someone in purchasing decides to ignore the steel spec on the drawing and order 316 instead of 2507 duplex as “it’s a bit cheaper”, what hope is there?...
Makes production costs far lower.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff